Yadda wrote on Nov 26^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:





As an aside, reading Anjem Choudary's words [above], reminded me of that line from the LOTR....




Saruman - LOTR - The Two Towers




Google;
LOTR Tolkien ISLAM

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 6:40am:





gandalf,

NONETHELESS [no matter the 'evidences' you state above] the fact is, that Anjem Choudary is accurately portraying what ISLAM instructs, regarding the relationship that moslems must foster towards disbelievers.

Can you deny it ???i
Quote:




This is what Allah [HIMSELF] says, about the moslems' relationship, towards those who are not moslems.....

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse....."
Koran 3.118

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1




n.b.


True, OR, false ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 10:33am:


Very deceptive of you Gandalf in saying non muslims when the Quran forbids muslims from taking christians and jews for friends in 5:51

http://quran.com/5/51
Tick boxes on left and read all english translations to dispel myth of mistranslation.

Since atheists are around 30% of our population what does Islam say about atheists Gandalf?
Quote:

Islam forbids non-Muslims from having any direct say in who runs the country. And of course, when I say non-Muslims, that includes Muslims of the wrong type (sunni/shia etc). And of course it compels them to kill anyone who tries to establish a government that is not of the correct type. And we wonder why Muslims slaughter each other even more than they slaughter non-Muslims.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 1:31pm:


He doesn't categorically say its "friends" either - but "friends, protectors, helpers, etc". The arabic word used is clearly a loaded word, but it is clear that it is understood as not merely "friend", but someone you look to for protection, guidance, patronage etc. Its not unreasonable for muslims to avoid this from christians and jews - as I'm sure christians and jews would reasonably avoid the same from muslims.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 1:31pm:


I see you missed the Dr Ghali translation:
Quote:


If we look at the actual definitions from an objective source, firstly the word used "Auliya":

Quote:

wikipedia

and its singular form, "wali":

Quote:


Note "authority of God" - and indeed 5:55 goes on to use the same word (wali) to tell muslims God is their only "wali". Using your misinformed logic, this is saying that muslims cannot even have muslims as friends. 

wikipedia

gandalf,

You cannot really explain to them the differences between wali and sahib for instance, because English has no such variety when it comes to shades of semantics for such a concept as "friend". To the English speaker, there is just "friend", the various different forms of friend are not really perceived by the English-only speaker. This is a defect in the English language, and you should not bother wasting your time trying to explain it to them, as they have no basis on which to understand it.

I've tried numerous times, and just wasted my time.

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 6:24pm:


I agree. I often get my girlfriends mixed up with my colleagues.

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 3:59pm:


Do you know what the difference is between a garden variety military regimes and a proper Islamic government? I think the difference is that the military regimes shoot you whereas the Islamic ones stone you to death. The reason why those minorities try so hard to rule is often because it is the only way to survive.

Abu for example thinks that Iraq should have a Sunni Sharia government. Not only that - he thinks it is inevitable. He is a bit cagey on the details, but this will obviously not happen democratically, given that it is a majority Shite country. My guess is that it would only happen through a process involving the death of anyone who stands in the way of the Sunni Muslim powermongers. They just have to follow Muhammed's lead.

Quote:


You accuse me of many things Gandalf, but you can never actually quote me. You always have to make something up instead.