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illegal Jewish immigration into Israel (Read 10016 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #60 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 9:33am
 
Big Dave wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 9:14am:
who thinks you are a kafur and sub-human to a muslim?


wow answering my call to back up unsubstantiated claims with yet more unsubstatiated claims. You guys just excel yourselves  Cheesy

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #61 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 11:43am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 6:39am:
and while your pondering over that FD, don't forget about substantiating your claim that (in your words) "Raping was just an example of another of their [early muslims] interests. "



gandalf,

That claim has previously been substantiated, here on OzPol.

Hadith ref's were given.






Here is an account [an excerpt] of the deeds of  Mohammed and 'his companions', from the Hadith;

Mohammed and his companions went on a raiding party.
'and took captive some excellent Arab women', 'and we desired them',
'for we were suffering from the absence of our wives',
'So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them'  [i.e. have non-consensual sex with their captive 'excellent Arab women']
'(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them.' [i.e. Mohammed's companions intended to sell/ransom their captive 'excellent Arab women' back to their menfolk]





gandalf,

Do you want to deny, that this account of the deeds of  Mohammed and 'his companions', is an accurate and authentic ?

Coming from ISLAMIC sources, as they do.
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« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2012 at 11:58am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #62 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:26pm
 
fail Yadda - there is no evidence that this hadith has anything to do with rape - thats just your spin.

got anything else?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #63 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

fail Yadda - there is no evidence that this hadith has anything to do with rape - thats just your spin.


got anything else?






Yes!

...see below.




Quote:

RESPONSE;


When confronted with truth;

Deny the truth.

That is what moslems [the kuffar] do.








Part of the contemporary criticism by moslems, of 'unbelievers', is that the 'unbelievers' are vile people who are cursed by Allah.
....they are the 'Kuffar'.

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar

NOTE THE WORDS,
"........a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."




The moslems are the kuffar, and the moslems [lost in their own lies], do not even recognise that fact.

Cheesy      Grin      Grini
+++

AGAIN - Who is the kuffar ???,

"........a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."



For the 'religion' of ISLAM, lying and deceit, to further the moslem cause, is a 'holy' religious doctrine;


Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya



Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #64 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:49pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

fail Yadda - there is no evidence that this hadith has anything to do with rape - thats just your spin.



got anything else?




gandalf,

So your opinion is;

If men >> abduct << women, and have non-consensual sex with them = = NOT RAPE.


???



Is that so ?



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« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2012 at 12:58pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #65 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:14pm
 
nowhere does it say its non-consensual. Fail again.

If it was non-consensual, then that would contradict specific quranic verses and other hadiths that forbid rape and abuse of women.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Big Dave
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #66 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:31pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 9:33am:
Big Dave wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 9:14am:
who thinks you are a kafur and sub-human to a muslim?


wow answering my call to back up unsubstantiated claims with yet more unsubstatiated claims. You guys just excel yourselves  Cheesy


It's just fact. Try marrying into a muslim family. Many muslims won't even shake your hand. If you're gay then you are seen a scum. I personally don't know why anybody would side with abu. He believes in  stonings amongst many other unbelievable things. I just don't get how do-gooders defend islam.
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Yadda
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #67 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

nowhere does it say its non-consensual. Fail again.



gandalf,

AGAIN;
So your opinion is;

If men >> abduct << women, and have non-consensual sex with them = = NOT RAPE.




???

Is this true ?

So, in ISLAM it is lawful to abduct women [and later have sex with them] ???






Quote:
If it was non-consensual, then that would contradict specific quranic verses and other hadiths that forbid rape and abuse of women.


That is true.
Coz Mohammed and Allah respected the purity of women.
/sarc off



"Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.006.301



"On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #002.024.541


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #68 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 2:13pm
 
Yadda wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:56pm:
So, in ISLAM it is lawful to abduct women [and later have sex with them] ???


To point out the obvious (or so it would seem obvious to everyone except Yadda), we are talking about women whose menfolk were killed during their war with the muslims. These women were enslaved by the muslims - because unlike most christian and virtually every other contemporary army - the muslims didn't actually put every man, woman and child to death after conquering them. Perhaps in Yadda world they should have left these widows and orphans to fend for themselves - and watch them as they starved to death.

The reality was, enslavement meant protection, and probable freedom later on. I don't find it the least bit surprising that many of these slaves would fall in love with their masters and agree to consensual sex.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #69 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 2:31pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 6:31am:
You simply can't answer this one at any cost can you?  Grin


You just quoted me answering you Abu.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 6:39am:
and while your pondering over that FD, don't forget about substantiating your claim that (in your words) "Raping was just an example of another of their [early muslims] interests. "


Islam permits soldiers to capture women and take them home as sex slaves. It also permits spousal rape.

Quote:
To point out the obvious (or so it would seem obvious to everyone except Yadda), we are talking about women whose menfolk were killed during their war with the muslims. These women were enslaved by the muslims - because unlike most christian and virtually every other contemporary army - the muslims didn't actually put every man, woman and child to death after conquering them.


It certainly permits this, and Abu wants this standards reintroduced. It also permits the theft of everything not nailed down, mass forced migration of people on the losing side (something Abu complains constantly about in Israel, even though he promotes worse for the Israel Jews), not to mention riding off on the women. You are right that this would be inconsequential if it was a mere historical fact. What makes it a problem is that Abu and so many other muslims around the world want to bring everyone back to these dark ages kicking and screaming.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:14pm:
nowhere does it say its non-consensual. Fail again.

If it was non-consensual, then that would contradict specific quranic verses and other hadiths that forbid rape and abuse of women.



Of course it does not state it specifically. But Islam redefines the concepts of rape and consent. Either that or it just ignores the obvious contradictions, or calls them abrogations (Islam gives you lost of options for explaining away this sort of thing). According to Falah (see Abu is not the only Muslim I get this from) the fact that they are married implies consent and it is ludicrous to expect a husband to obtain his wife's consent again every time they have sex, particularly if she is in a bad mood.

I never could get Falah to explain how this works with Islamic sex slaves.
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« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2012 at 2:38pm by freediver »  

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Yadda
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #70 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 3:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 2:13pm:
Yadda wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 1:56pm:
So, in ISLAM it is lawful to abduct women [and later have sex with them] ???


To point out the obvious (or so it would seem obvious to everyone except Yadda), we are talking about women whose menfolk were killed during their war with the muslims. These women were enslaved by the muslims - because unlike most christian and virtually every other contemporary army - the muslims didn't actually put every man, woman and child to death after conquering them. Perhaps in Yadda world they should have left these widows and orphans to fend for themselves - and watch them as they starved to death.

The reality was, enslavement meant protection, and probable freedom later on. I don't find it the least bit surprising that many of these slaves would fall in love with their masters and agree to consensual sex.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #71 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 7:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 29th, 2012 at 2:31pm:
You just quoted me answering you Abu.


I did? Where? Please post it again for me.
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Re: illegal Jewish immigration into Israel
Reply #72 - Nov 29th, 2012 at 8:48pm
 
Quote:
Islam permits soldiers to capture women and take them home as sex slaves. It also permits spousal rape.


Any infidel woman is fair game according to Islam, because the reason women wear hijabs etc is because men naturally cannot control themselves if they see womene not covered up, they have no ability to do so. So, if a woman (especially an infidel woman) is not covered up - then she had it coming according to them. That's exactly what Sheik Hilali said at his mosque, the grand mufti of Islam in Australia. Nobody stormed out of his sermon in outrage, or stood up to correct him. They all laughed, it was funny that he was defending the serial rapist Bilal Skaf.

The brain damaged leftists in Sydney know all about how we should view multiculturalism and the wonderful cultural enrichment of Islam. All from the safety of Gordon and Wahroonga where they never have to deal with its effects. But none of those lefties would EVER send their teenage daughters to Punchbowl High with a majority muslim student body. Not in a million, million years....
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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