polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28
th, 2012 at 10:05am:
..........I think you miss the irony of starting this thread with the stated purpose of pointing out someone's incorrect facts - and throughout, casually throw around the most baseless and outrageous smears about a group of people and their prophet. And since I know you are just going to reply with "quote me" - here are a sample:
1.
The only thing that inevitably lead to the expulsion of so many of them [arabs] was attempting to kill all the Jews.2.
Unlike Muslims, we do not insist on mass slaughters every time there is a change in leadership.3.
Palestinians attempted their own holocaust4. on why muslims want to slaughter jews:
Not for the hell of it. They are following Muhammed's lead.And before you bring out your predictable "you quote me out of context" - it is the claims themselves that are baseless, not the context. To spell it for you:
1. that arabs attempted to "kill all the jews" has no basis in fact.
2. That "Muslims" (collective) insist on "mass slaughter" whenever there is a change in government has no basis in fact.
3. That the Palestinians attempted their own holocaust has no basis in fact.
4. that the arab wars against the state of Israel was merely a case of muslims following Mohammad's lead - has no basis in fact.
There, I've completely flogged a dead horse I know, but your continued obstinacy has forced my hand. I think its relevant to point these things out given the entire stated purpose of this thread. The point? Well, getting back to the topic, the technicalities of the legality or otherwise of the jewish immigration is, as I pointed out from the start, a non-issue. Abu has only ever argued the term from a universal morality/human rights point of view - and he made that clear when he stated that it was "illegal" only in the sense that it was opposed by the actual people living on the land - and who would be most affected by it.
So after this topic was clearly established as a fundamental issue of basic human rights, you then started pulling out arguments related to why the arabs are not worthy of such human rights - thus the tired old baseless crap - ie muslims lost all claim to human rights after they started trying to kill all jews and instigate their own holocaust. And as if we had any doubt about the reasons for this alleged attempted holocaust, you simply dismiss it with "well they were just following Muhammad's lead". You see you reduce the entire conflict to a simple matter of a group of irrational religious zealots - bent on killing all the jews because their prophet told them to. Thats what I mean by answering bigotry with bigotry. If the purpose of this thread was to set the facts straight (which you claim), then you single handedly destroyed it.
Response to #2;
Yes, it does have a basis in fact!
The
DOCTRINALLY established moslem war strategy when overcoming an old regime [and whether it was an 'ill-favoured'
moslem regime, or, and infidel regime, it is ALWAYS deemed by the new moslem victors to have been un-ISLAMIC e.g. Syria today, fighting the rebels, both sides claim to be the 'rightly guided' moslems] is to use
terror and violence, to consolidate their gains.
And the Koran itself, and other ISLAMIC 'religious' texts
do counsel such a path.
POINT #1,"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/...Koran [8:67 above] meaning here, first moslems should beleaguer and slaughter their enemies in the land,
to terrorise, to cower them.
And then later, moslems will more easily be able to defeat, and enslave a pliant,
fearful enemy people.
In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!
i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.
#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.
POINT #2,Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220
".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062
POINT #3,AGAIN;
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror."Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City....whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
Koran 33.60,61
Those "seize and slay" acts
.....
are commanded by Allah himself.
And Allah reveals no 'qualification' [e.g. there is no;
"take him to a law court."
],
......Allah commands moslems
"whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain"
, ......i.e. those who are perceived as resisting, and opposing, the spread of his law.