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Islamic terrorism statistics (Read 44192 times)
freediver
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #15 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 9:04pm
 
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Any one of these is a potential 7/7 or Madrid.


They are also potentially blowing up a letterbox - not the same thing. Not all bombs are the same.

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The popular perception out there is that not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims.


No it isn't. You keep falling back on this because you don;t have any rational argument. It is a strawman, nothing more.

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yes- and as we all know, bombs going off in letters and cafes nearly every day in France and Spain


You sure about that? Yet again your own evidence contradicts you.

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What you actually said was "Do you count the slaughter of hundreds of Hindu by Muslims as equal to a bit of anti-Islamic graffiti by Hindus " - please explain to me how else we are to interpret that other than implying that muslim terrorism in India is heinous, while hindu terrorism against muslims is no worse than a bit of harmless graffiti?


You should interpret it the same way as my claim that your statistics equate 9/11 with a graffiti attack. Of course, this would have been obvious if you had not chopped off the second half of the sentence. If I clearly did not mean to 'spit in the face' of the victims of 9/11, why do you reach such an absurd conclusion here? It seems like a pattern of you deliberately leaving out the important information to make something appear the opposite of what it is.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #16 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 9:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2012 at 9:04pm:
No it isn't. You keep falling back on this because you don;t have any rational argument. It is a strawman, nothing more.


that doesn't even make any sense. A strawman is misconstruing someone's argument and claiming to have refuted it. How is what I said here even remotely relevant to that? You obviously don't even know what a strawman is, so stop using the term. But the fact is, this perception about muslims is very widespread, and to deny it is simply ignorance. Countering this misconception is very important if anyone is interested in stamping out the rampant islamophobia that pervades our society.

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You sure about that? Yet again your own evidence contradicts you.


There were hundreds of terrorist attacks in Europe last year alone. The vast majority of attacks were bombings. There are 365 days in a year. You do the maths.

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You should interpret it the same way as my claim that your statistics equate 9/11 with a graffiti attack.


ie bullshit. Right we're clear on that...

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If I clearly did not mean to 'spit in the face' of the victims of 9/11, why do you reach such an absurd conclusion here?


Well you pretty much just answered your own question. You consider the victims of islamic terrorism as far more important than the victims of non-islamic terrorism. Why else would you describe muslim attacks as "slaughter" and hindu attacks as "a bit of anti-islamic graffiti"?
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #17 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 10:11pm
 
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that doesn't even make any sense. A strawman is misconstruing someone's argument and claiming to have refuted it. How is what I said here even remotely relevant to that?


Yes. In this case it is the argument or position of an imaginary group of people. You cannot counter what anyone here actually posts, so you make up an imaginary group with an imaginary belief so you can have a glorious victory in debate.

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But the fact is, this perception about muslims is very widespread


Can you quote a single real person actually saying it, or is this another case of you making up what they think instead?

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Countering this misconception is very important


Sure, if imaginary rhetorical victories is your thing.

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if anyone is interested in stamping out the rampant islamophobia that pervades our society


Something makes me doubt the islamophobia will go away unless Muslims stop slaughtering people, and other Muslims stop making excuses for them. Perhaps you should direct your energy towards stopping that rather than telling people they have nothing to fear so long as they can't tell the difference between 3000 dead people and an 'attack' that deliberately avoids harming people. Despite all your playing round with numbers and silly excuses for Islamic terrorism, the simple fact is that a single Islamic terrorist attack killed more people than the grand total of the historical European terrorist attacks that you insist we should be more worried about.

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There were hundreds of terrorist attacks in Europe last year alone. The vast majority of attacks were bombings. There are 365 days in a year. You do the maths.


Your own statistics presented above say 318 events between 1980 and 2005. Admittedly it doesn't give the region, and chances are that you yet again have no clue at all what your own evidence is actually measuring. You like the pretty pictures and graphs, but have trouble with the actual meaning.

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Well you pretty much just answered your own question. You consider the victims of islamic terrorism as far more important than the victims of non-islamic terrorism.


No gandalf, I just said the opposite. Are you having trouble following my English or something?
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #18 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 7:05am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2012 at 10:11pm:
Can you quote a single real person actually saying it, or is this another case of you making up what they think instead?


Fox News host Brian Kilmeade claimed Monday morning that "all terrorists are Muslims."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/15/brian-kilmeade-all-terror_n_764472.html

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Muslim and the general manager of Arab news channel, Al-Arabiya has said it is a "fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

Not all the islamists are terrorists but all the terrorists are islamist - Republican Party donor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjLCRlgmqw

some douche has even set up a facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Not-all-Muslims-are-Terrorist-but-all-terrorist-are-Muslims/129058783771244

Any more stupid questions? Case closed. I'm done with your willful ignorance on this issue.

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Your own statistics presented above say 318 events between 1980 and 2005. Admittedly it doesn't give the region,


Thats the FBI statistics for the US. The europol data mentions hundreds of attacks in 2011 alone. Stop wasting my time, you can't even be bothered looking at the statistics you are so sure you are refuting.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #19 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 8:38am
 
Quote:
Stop wasting my time, you can't even be bothered looking at the statistics you are so sure you are refuting.


Sure I looked at them. That's how I knew the numbers. But they did not say where they were from and neither did you.

No matter how much you fiddle with the numbers, there is no way you can rationally use them to argue that the Islamic terrorist threat is exaggerated, when a single terrorist attack from Muslims killed more people than the entire history of the ETA and IRA combined. All it really shows is that even among terrorists, Muslims are the lowest of the low.

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Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Muslim and the general manager of Arab news channel, Al-Arabiya has said it is a "fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism


Did you notice that he did not actually say what you are claiming? In fact he directly contradicted it. Given the context - a Muslim managing an arab news channel, he probably has it right and has statistics to back it up, even if they are specific to his region. It certainly makes more sense than you using the ETA and IRA to argue that we are overestimating the Islamic terrorist threat here.

As for the others, when you find one that is not obviously intended as a joke to make fun of people like you, let me know.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #20 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 10:09am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 8:38am:
when a single terrorist attack from Muslims killed more people than the entire history of the ETA and IRA combined. All it really shows is that even among terrorists, Muslims are the lowest of the low.


you don't compare US terrorism with European terorism, you compare European terorrism with European terrorism - and fact is non-islamists are winning hands down - in both frequency of attacks and body count. Apparently this is too difficult a concept for you to handle.

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Did you notice that he did not actually say what you are claiming? In fact he directly contradicted it. Given the context - a Muslim managing an arab news channel, he probably has it right and has statistics to back it up, even if they are specific to his region.


Right, so you've gone from "these are imaginary people saying this" to "well yeah - people say it because its true". You're just shamelessly hopping from one untennable position to another.

In any case, if he was talking about his specific region, why do you think his article had the title: "The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!"?  Roll Eyes


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As for the others, when you find one that is not obviously intended as a joke to make fun of people like you, let me know.


...

You just tried to argue above that at least one person said it seriously - and that it was correct. Make up your mind, you can't take two contradictory positions and try and sustain them both.

In any case, did the GOP donor look like he was joking? Did the fox douchebag look like he was joking? It is a widely held view, and I have only touched the tip of the iceberg. Anyone who doesn't have their head in the sand would understand this. Do a goddamn google search for once and see how widely the claim is discussed. It is there, and it is a real concern for those of us interested in the rise of islamophobia. Yes, of course muslims themselves have to smarten up their act - no one is disputing that. But these ignorant views and prejudices are certainly not helping. Just stop being a troll - if you've got nothing useful to say, the just be quiet - you are wrong, you have been proven to be wrong in spectacular fashion - just accept this and move on. For God's sake  Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2012 at 10:36am by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 12:47pm
 
Quote:
you don't compare US terrorism with European terorism, you compare European terorrism with European terrorism


Actually, if what you are interested in is the threat posed to Australia and the west in general, this is perfectly reasonable. The ETA, IRA and other local terrorist groups in Europe may not be particularly interested in broadening their attacks to the west in general, but Islamic groups certainly are, as demonstrated by 9/11, London, Madrid and Bali. 9/11 is reflective of the Islamic terrorism threat to the west in general. If you are going to start breaking it down and looking only at those few regions where other terrorist groups manage to compete with Muslims on body count, then you are completely missing the point again. You are deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room so you can mislead people to argue that the threat posed by Islamic terrorism is over-rated. It is more than relevant that in a single attack Muslims outdid the entire historical body count of the terrorist groups that you think we should be more concerned about. It is also relevant that those other terrorist groups you think are a bigger problem are not actually targetting us, whereas the Islamists are. All of these things are relevant if your goal is an honest assessment of the threat rather than Islamic apologetics.

Either that or you are confused about where we all are. We are in Australia, not Northern Ireland, and the year is 2012, and Islamic terrorism is the most significant terrorist threat we face and is not blown out of proportion at all.

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Right, so you've gone from "these are imaginary people saying this" to "well yeah - people say it because its true".


No gandalf. If you want to talk about truth, how about you start with what I actually say. What the Muslim guy said is most likely true, but it is not what you were complaining about, and is certainly a more balanced analysis than yours.

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In any case, if he was talking about his specific region, why do you think his article had the title: "The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!"?


To get people's attention, or as a joke. He obviously doesn't actually believe that - hence his careful explanation that he does not actually believe it. I think people have actually said the same thing here plenty of times, in jest. A lot of truth is said in jest.

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You just tried to argue above that at least one person said it seriously - and that it was correct.


No gandalf. Read it again. I said he did not say it - because he did not actually say it, he contradicted it.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #22 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 12:47pm:
9/11 is reflective of the Islamic terrorism threat to the west in general.


9/11 was reflective of the US's overbearing role in the muslim world - if you want to look at it that way. In fact the stated grievance of the 9/11 plotters was the presense of US bases in the middle east. The insignificant number of islamic terrorist activity in Europe is reflective of the overwhelmingly successful integration of muslims into European society.

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He obviously doesn't actually believe that - hence his careful explanation that he does not actually believe it.


What careful explanation? Read the full article for yourself. He talks about muslim terrorism from Nepal to Sudan to Saudi Arabia to North Ossetia - or in other words all over the world. Nowhere is there any "careful explanation" that his claim is specific to a particular region. He is talking about the muslim world, and concludes:

"We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women."

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No gandalf. Read it again. I said he did not say it - because he did not actually say it, he contradicted it.


I have read it - I read the entire article from where that quote comes from. His main argument can be summed up by the sentence I quoted above. He is saying loud and clear that muslims hold a monopoly on terror all over the world. It is *EXACTLY* the same argument I was complaining about - that "not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims".

So lets just recap - and since you are so obsessed with me quoting what you actually say:
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In this case it is the argument or position of an imaginary group of people. You cannot counter what anyone here actually posts, so you make up an imaginary group with an imaginary belief so you can have a glorious victory in debate.


These were your words. You are ojecting to my claim that "not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" is a widely held (and dangerous) view - claiming instead that this view is held by "an imaginary group with an imaginary view" - or in other words it doesn't exist. I then gave you actual examples of people saying this in mainstream media - who present this as a serious argument. This is a clear a refutation of your claim as you could ever hope to get. The view *DOES* exist, it is a mainstream view, and it is widespread.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:13pm:
The insignificant number of islamic terrorist activity in Europe is reflective of the overwhelmingly successful integration of muslims into European society.



That's one way of looking at it.  Another is that there would be no point in terrorist activity in Europe, since all that would do is jeopardise their conquest via lawful immigration.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:22pm
 
... wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:13pm:
The insignificant number of islamic terrorist activity in Europe is reflective of the overwhelmingly successful integration of muslims into European society.



That's one way of looking at it.  Another is that there would be no point in terrorist activity in Europe, since all that would do is jeopardise their conquest via lawful immigration. 


Associating yourself with the "stealth jihad" concept erodes any credibility you might have had right there and then.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:25pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:22pm:
... wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:13pm:
The insignificant number of islamic terrorist activity in Europe is reflective of the overwhelmingly successful integration of muslims into European society.



That's one way of looking at it.  Another is that there would be no point in terrorist activity in Europe, since all that would do is jeopardise their conquest via lawful immigration. 


Associating yourself with the "stealth jihad" concept erodes any credibility you might have had right there and then.


A *giggle* white muslim convert  *snigger* talking about credibility.  Noice.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:31pm
 
... wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:25pm:
A *giggle* white muslim convert  *snigger* talking about credibility.  Noice.


wow you sir are a class act. Pleasure to meet you  Roll Eyes
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #27 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:35pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:31pm:
... wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:25pm:
A *giggle* white muslim convert  *snigger* talking about credibility.  Noice.


wow you sir are a class act. Pleasure to meet you  Roll Eyes



Yes, I'm sure it is.
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #28 - Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:41pm
 
Now then, pleasantries aside, what purpose would terror attacks in Europe serve?  All they have to do is bide their time and Europe is theirs without a fight.  A terror attack now would simply snap the honkies out of their stupor, putting an end to the colonisation.
Or does a *giggle* white mus....bwahahahaha...errr a white muslim *snigger* convert making a mention of 'credibility' adequately refute that possibility?
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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #29 - Oct 12th, 2012 at 7:17am
 
... wrote on Oct 11th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
Now then, pleasantries aside, what purpose would terror attacks in Europe serve?  All they have to do is bide their time and Europe is theirs without a fight.  A terror attack now would simply snap the honkies out of their stupor, putting an end to the colonisation.


Whats interesting about this view is the idea of muslims living peacefully and harmoniously in a non-muslim society is naturally assumed to be something sinister - rather than the more obvious explanation that this is proof that they are normal peaceful people living out their lives - who get along fine with the people around them - non muslim or not.

Quote:
Or does a *giggle* white mus....bwahahahaha...errr a white muslim *snigger* convert making a mention of 'credibility' adequately refute that possibility?


just curious, but why do you have to be such a dick about this? Why are muslim converts sub-human in your view?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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