Australian Politics Forum - SOBs unjustified prejudice

Sprintcyclist

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #165 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm

I would call yeman, saudi and many other coutries islamic states.

Anywhere where there are laws such as "death to homos", "women treated as 2nd class citizens", "preference given to muslims", "any nonislamic belief treated poorly".

there are many other laws indicating this situation.
The overall indicator being political leaders being imans.
ie, a religious belief being in power.

Which is a very bad thing as far as I am concerned.

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freediver

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #166 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 6:23pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:07pm:

SOB - xianity is not a religious movement, so it can't enforce a doctrine up on any populace.

Unlike islam, whose written aim is to make all religions subservient to it, by any means whatsoever.
It also discriminates against every nonmuslim once it is in power.

But it is not in power. Not in australia. And I dont think sharia is in power anywhere.

SOB

They are killing an aweful lot of people, including Australians, in order to gain power and destroy democracy. That seems to be why you are normally so careful to pretend that it only matters what happens within Australia - because from a global perspective Muslims are not quite as impotent as you need them to be in order to trout out your 'all religions are equal' crap.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #167 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 6:29pm

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:07pm:

SOB - xianity is not a religious movement, so it can't enforce a doctrine up on any populace.

Unlike islam, whose written aim is to make all religions subservient to it, by any means whatsoever.
It also discriminates against every nonmuslim once it is in power.

But it is not in power. Not in australia. And I dont think sharia is in power anywhere.

SOB

They are killing an aweful lot of people, including Australians, in order to gain power and destroy democracy. That seems to be why you are normally so careful to pretend that it only matters what happens within Australia - because from a global perspective Muslims are not quite as impotent as you need them to be in order to trout out your 'all religions are equal' crap.

Dont you feel guilty to your god for being a deceiver and misrepresenting ppl? Isnt it supposed to be bad to falsely accuse your neighbours? The reason I am talking about AUSTRALIA is because you keep bringing up abu. He is in australia. The only reason you have brought up OTHER countries is because theres nothing in australia to complain about!

SOB

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #168 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 7:02pm

Quote:

Hahahhaha. You want to interpret and reinterpret everything. He answered good enough for me. Since all along i said he isnt a danger to australia.

It is not reinterpretting anything. He wants Shariah law. He wants to destroy democracy. He wants to destroy freedom.

Quote:

There is a big difference between being an imminent danger and being a long term danger. One is based on what you are immediately capable of, the other is based on your long term goals. For some reason both you and Abu do absurd mental gymnastics to pretend there is no difference between wanting Shariah law and overthrowing the government. Why is that?

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent? Why is it good enough to for you to openly lie about what Abu wants by pretending it is the same as what he can achieve?

Quote:

Since all along i said he isnt a danger to australia.

You also said he did not want the things he openly admits to wanting. Do you think it is justifiable to lie about what he wants because he is impotent to achieve it? Or are you incapable of telling the difference?

Quote:

It is an interpretation. You hassle and hassle until ppl say something kinda close to what you want semantically then pounce. Doesnt matter if its what they meant or not.

It is not 'kinda close'. It is what he actually said. It is you who settles for kinda close. That is why you always come across as such an idiot by claiming Abu said things he did not actually say. I am happy to quote Abu and to provide links to show that I am not taking him out of context. You can do neither because you are lying about what Abu said. I have pointed it out enough times for you to figure it out by now.

Quote:

No. He said he didnt want to kill anyone and he pretty much said the same thing hes been saying all along that he cant and wont change anything and doesnt even want to although he wants everyone to believe in his god. Same as every other religious person. You are the one interpreting and attributing claims to him. And me.

Spot, here is an explanation for you of the difference between wanting a job as an executioner, supporting the death penalty for apostasy, and the Muslim method where everyone does actually join in the killing of apostates:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1316600915/69#69

Quote:

That is your interpretation of what he says. Semantics.

Thing is I cant provide quotes of what he did not say. That is unreasonable.

It is not an interpretation. He said it in plain english and you would have to be a complete idiot to get confused over it.

Can you provide quotes of him saying he opposes the death penalty for apostasy? I can provide quotes showing he supports it.

Can you provide quotes of him saying he does not want Shariah law in Australia? This is something you have claimed he said directly, and you are just plain wrong about it. You were fooled in the most naive way. I can provide quotes showing he does.

Can you provide quotes of him saying he does not want to destroy democracy? I can provide quotes showing he does.

Can you provide quotes of him saying he supports personal freedom? I can provide quotes showing he opposes it. I can even show you quotes where he explains that gay people should be stoned to death for apostasy. For someone so hung up on the implications of legal recognition of gay marriage you are strangely quiet on this one.

Quote:

The only reason you have brought up OTHER countries is because theres nothing in australia to complain about!

You are wrong about this too spot. Only an idiot would insist that there is nothing wrong with wanting to kill people for political reasons unless you are in a position to achieve the change you want. If you wait till they start the killing before you are even honest about what they want, you are too late. I cannot even get you to be honest about what Abu wants. If there is nothing to complain about, why are you so keen to delude yourself and everyone else about this? Is your honesty somehow dependent on the level of threat you perceive? Is it OK to lie about what someone wants if, in your opinion, they are unlikely to get it?

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Mnemonic

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #169 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 10:28pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 4:51pm:

Why?? Masturabtion is sex without reproduction...it applies equally to men AND women...

What? Masturbation is sex? So I'm not a virgin anymore because I've been playing with myself? Cheesy

Frances wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

But doesn’t male masturbation waste reproductive material (i.e. semen) and, as a result, temporarily reduce the ability of the man to reproduce?

In the case of a woman, there is no reproductive material wasted in masturbation. In fact, you could argue that, rather than being counterproductive, it could actually aid the reproductive process, as penetration would be easier…..

Reproductive material has to be wasted for economic reasons. Otherwise, you'd be popping out babies and wasting your life away. A responsible man doesn't want to put his woman in that situation when she'd rather be developing her career. It's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, of choosing between lost sperm and a lost baby, as opposed to lost money and career development time. As you're probably aware, women have to be financially independent now.

That's why a lot of people are having less sex. Child support laws are an anti-aphrodisiac/sex drive killer.

If men were thought of as sperm donors and not fathers, a lot of people's sex lives would be so much better!!! No need to pay child support!!!

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

Ahhh i see. Well why should religion have anything to do with politics? Hmmmm? And if it did have anything to do with politics which religion should?

I agree. Religion should not be mixed with governmental politics.

Quantum wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

Christians pay tax. Considering how many Christians there are in this country; and how many very wealthy Christians are in this country; then Christians probably pay more tax then any other group. So how do they not get a say?

Of course Christians should have a say, but religion should be kept out of governmental politics. Churches can govern themselves, but the national government is for all Australians, not just for Christians.

Australia is a liberal secular democracy, not a Christian one. I actually don't believe any national government can be "Christian," because national governments manage things that are intrinsically un-Christian like supplying a national army. National armies are trained to kill. That is un-Christian, so national governments cannot be Christian.

Keep Jesus, Christ, Trinity, God, the Bible and other religious concepts out of politics except for the Golden Rule.

... wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

Speaking of which...why shouldn't people be allowed to marry 2, 3 or even 10 people, assuming all parties consent?

It's not your place to dictate what is "realistic" and what isn't. If that boy loves his mama and wants to marry her, on what grounds do you deny them? Consent is all it takes remember?

It doesn't really matter because the whole point of defining "marriage" is for taxation, social security, litigation and business purposes. It's so that the Tax Office and social security services know how much to demand from you in tax or contribute to your social security. It's also so that lawyers know what the various parties in court are talking about or that if you're doing business deals, service providers and customers/clients know what they're getting.

We have to get away from the emotional and sentimental aspects of the word "marriage."

I think both sides of the "gay marriage" debate need to back off. It really doesn't matter if we call it "gay marriage" or "civil unions for homosexuals" because it means the same thing anyway. People know what you mean regardless. Some people are just puritanical about the word "marriage" and treat it as something sacred, whereas others put in on a pedestal and covet it for themselves, that somehow their relationship becomes "elevated" because of how important the word "marriage" is to our society. Seriously it's just a word, for goodness' sake. People need to get over their obsession with over-rated words.

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Mnemonic

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #170 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 10:30pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

And I dont think sharia is in power anywhere.

Not in power anywhere? I'm pretty sure it's in power somewhere on this planet.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 9:31am:

Ask many xtians what they7 want. they want everyone to be xtian. They want everyone to live by their standards and what they call "morals". Seriously. They cant achieve it either but they want it. Its a religious thing.

There are certainly many Christians who are like that, but there are also many who are silent and keep to themselves, are quiet and follow their own "conscience" as guided by their religion. This isn't America. Our Bible Belt is nowhere near as bad as the one in the USA.

Sure, there's a lot of people who are loud and fanatical about imposing a "religious" agenda on society, but these are the people who think you're not truly religious if you're not preaching and aggressively shoehorning some agenda on the rest of society and not driven by some "all or nothing" attitude.

But religion is doing, not preaching. I think everyone should just do what they think is right (for themselves), walk the walk more and talk the talk less.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #171 - Aug 10^th, 2012 at 10:34pm

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:07pm:

SOB - xianity is not a religious movement, so it can't enforce a doctrine up on any populace.

Unlike islam, whose written aim is to make all religions subservient to it, by any means whatsoever.
It also discriminates against every nonmuslim once it is in power.

But it is not in power. Not in australia. And I dont think sharia is in power anywhere.

SOB

They are killing an aweful lot of people, including Australians, in order to gain power and destroy democracy. That seems to be why you are normally so careful to pretend that it only matters what happens within Australia - because from a global perspective Muslims are not quite as impotent as you need them to be in order to trout out your 'all religions are equal' crap.

hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #172 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 5:38am

Quote:

Not in power anywhere? I'm pretty sure it's in power somewhere on this planet.

Lil bit picky isnt it? Fine maybe its in power somewhere on the planet. Where? Not even afghanistan. . . it could be somewhere though that hasnt been in the media because its not got any oil or isnt making any noise or maybe they arent occupied.

Quote:

There are certainly many Christians who are like that, but there are also many who are silent and keep to themselves, are quiet and follow their own "conscience" as guided by their religion. This isn't America. Our Bible Belt is nowhere near as bad as the one in the USA.

Sure, there's a lot of people who are loud and fanatical about imposing a "religious" agenda on society, but these are the people who think you're not truly religious if you're not preaching and aggressively shoehorning some agenda on the rest of society and not driven by some "all or nothing" attitude.

But religion is doing, not preaching. I think everyone should just do what they think is right (for themselves), walk the walk more and talk the talk less.

Yeah yeah i know i been saying that all along. Then i make one semantic error and BANG! got me! i must think all this other stuff. Freediver makes me repeat over and over until i make a mistake. the thing is if you press many* xtians you will find they want everyone to be like them. Especially pentacostals, jehovahs, mormons, and other sects where that is what they preach. Evangelism.

*many: i am using the word instead of some because there are entire sects that seem to exist just for evangelising. Catholics seem to mostly be okay. In fact i would have said ALL except i met an exception recently. Before that I had never met an evangelising catholic.

I agree about the government.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #173 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:02am

Quote:

It is not reinterpretting anything. He wants Shariah law. He wants to destroy democracy. He wants to destroy freedom.

Yank propaganda rubbish. You are a sheep. Jesus lil lamb i suppose.

Quote:

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent? Why is it good enough to for you to openly lie about what Abu wants by pretending it is the same as what he can achieve?

I have nothing to do with what abu wants. He doesnt speak for all muslims either. I am not saying what he wants or what he doesnt want. You are. He answered my question before thats it. Doesnt mean im speaking for him now. If i go after him for wanting everyone to be muslim i have to go after xtians for wanting everyone to be xtian. I dont want to go after anyone peaceful. There are too many and its a waste of time and BP. Most non paranoid-hater ppl are okay no matter what religion.

Quote:

You also said he did not want the things he openly admits to wanting. Do you think it is justifiable to lie about what he wants because he is impotent to achieve it? Or are you incapable of telling the difference?

No i didnt.

Quote:

It is not 'kinda close'. It is what he actually said. It is you who settles for kinda close. That is why you always come across as such an idiot by claiming Abu said things he did not actually say. I am happy to quote Abu and to provide links to show that I am not taking him out of context. You can do neither because you are lying about what Abu said. I have pointed it out enough times for you to figure it out by now.

Will you cut it the frig out? the only thing i say abu said was that he answered my question. If he didnt answer it to YOUR satisfaction you can take it up with him. I cant provide links to something somebody didnt say. You provide a link to where he told me he wanted to kill me for apostasy.

Quote
Quote:
Hahahhaha. You want to interpret and reinterpret everything. He answered good enough for me. Since all along i said he isnt a danger to australia.

It is not reinterpretting anything. He wants Shariah law. He wants to destroy democracy. He wants to destroy freedom.

Quote:
There is a big difference between being an imminent danger and being a long term danger. One is based on what you are immediately capable of, the other is based on your long term goals. For some reason both you and Abu do absurd mental gymnastics to pretend there is no difference between wanting Shariah law and overthrowing the government. Why is that?

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent? Why is it good enough to for you to openly lie about what Abu wants by pretending it is the same as what he can achieve?

Quote:
Since all along i said he isnt a danger to australia.

You also said he did not want the things he openly admits to wanting. Do you think it is justifiable to lie about what he wants because he is impotent to achieve it? Or are you incapable of telling the difference?

Quote:
It is an interpretation. You hassle and hassle until ppl say something kinda close to what you want semantically then pounce. Doesnt matter if its what they meant or not.

It is not 'kinda close'. It is what he actually said. It is you who settles for kinda close. That is why you always come across as such an idiot by claiming Abu said things he did not actually say. I am happy to quote Abu and to provide links to show that I am not taking him out of context. You can do neither because you are lying about what Abu said. I have pointed it out enough times for you to figure it out by now.

Quote:
No. He said he didnt want to kill anyone and he pretty much said the same thing hes been saying all along that he cant and wont change anything and doesnt even want to although he wants everyone to believe in his god. Same as every other religious person. You are the one interpreting and attributing claims to him. And me.

Quote:

Spot, here is an explanation for you of the difference between wanting a job as an executioner, supporting the death penalty for apostasy, and the Muslim method where everyone does actually join in the killing of apostates:

So what? What has it got to do with me? What has it got to do with whatever the heck we are taking about? Its you typing about something random. Nothing unusual there.

Quote:

Can you provide quotes blah blah blah

WTF is your problem? What has it got to do with me? You saw me ask him questions and he answered. That is all i need to know. Unless organised religion gets banned its what we are stuck with. All these religions with what they really want (control over everyone else) but impotent. Fine as long as NONE of them gets an upper hand we should be okay.

Quote:

You are wrong about this too spot. Only an idiot would insist that there is nothing wrong with wanting to kill people for political reasons unless you are in a position to achieve the change you want. If you wait till they start the killing before you are even honest about what they want, you are too late. I cannot even get you to be honest about what Abu wants. If there is nothing to complain about, why are you so keen to delude yourself and everyone else about this? Is your honesty somehow dependent on the level of threat you perceive? Is it OK to lie about what someone wants if, in your opinion, they are unlikely to get it?

Okay. So what do you want? Exactly. What do you want for australia and dont say that yank propaganda crap again. What do you want to see in religion in australia. Might as well tell me what you want in other countries too since you seem to think its important (whatever it is). How about gay marriage - do you want to impose your religious will on that? How about abortion? How about killing muslims - do you want them all killed? I have said plenty of times what I want now tell me what you want.

Bolded because i expect an answer this time.

SOB

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #174 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:34am

Saul do you think all those deaths are some kind of joke?

Quote:

It doesn't really matter because the whole point of defining "marriage" is for taxation, social security, litigation and business purposes. It's so that the Tax Office and social security services know how much to demand from you in tax or contribute to your social security. It's also so that lawyers know what the various parties in court are talking about or that if you're doing business deals, service providers and customers/clients know what they're getting.

We have to get away from the emotional and sentimental aspects of the word "marriage."

Not exactly. The biggest part of marriage is the social contract. However it has little legal relvance in Australia. It is this social contract above all else that applies equally to gays and heterosexual couples. Legal recognition, even if it has little direct legal consequence, is important as a validator.

Quote:

Yank propaganda rubbish. You are a sheep. Jesus lil lamb i suppose.

It is what Abu himself said Spot. Why are you so afraid to acknowledge the truth? Why are you trying so hard to misrepresent it?

Quote:

I have nothing to do with what abu wants.

Yes you do. You have spent a lot of time claiming to know what Abu wants, claiming he told you what he wants, when in fact all he told you was his excuses for why he should not tell you what he wants.

You said it. Own it. Don't run away.

Quote:

I am not saying what he wants or what he doesnt want. You are.

Don't lie spot. I can quote you if you want.

Quote:

If i go after him for wanting everyone to be muslim i have to go after xtians for wanting everyone to be xtian.

You are completely missing the point spot. You should 'go after him' for wanting the death penalty for thought crimes. Or at the very least, stop misrepresenting his views.

Quote:

I dont want to go after anyone peaceful.

All of the current political debates you aprticipate in (eg gay marriage) are peaceful ones. Abu on the other hand supports violence.

Quote:

Will you cut it the frig out? the only thing i say abu said was that he answered my question.

This does not even make sense spot.

Quote:

So what? What has it got to do with me?

You appear incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent. You claimed to know what Abu wants. Now you are backpedalling, which I suppose means you are facing up to the reality. But you did make those claims.

Quote:

WTF is your problem? What has it got to do with me?

You have been misrepresenting what I said and what Abu said. I was pointing out to you that I can provide direct quotes to back myself up. You can't, because you are wrong.

Quote:

You saw me ask him questions and he answered. That is all i need to know.

What is it that you need to know? What exactly did you find out?

Quote:

Okay. So what do you want? Exactly. What do you want for australia and dont say that yank propaganda crap again.

I want you to be honest about what Abu wants and stop misrepresenting his views as benign when they clearly are not.

More broadly, I want what we have - personal freedom, democracy etc. This is not yank propaganda. The Americans do not own freedom and democracy. You are naive to pass these things off as inconsequential.

Quote:

How about gay marriage - do you want to impose your religious will on that?

If you would pull your head out of your arse for a second you would realise I support gay marriage.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26460 Australia	Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice Reply #175 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:45am I do not claim to speak for abu. I do not represent or misrepresent his views i do not make any claims on what he says except for when he answered my question. He said he didnt want to kill me or anyone else in australia. That was his answer. You dont believe him go have it out with him. SOB
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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #176 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:50am

Quote:

I do not claim to speak for abu. I do not represent or misrepresent his views i do not make any claims on what he says except for when he answered my question.

You have claimed many times to know what he wants, when he clearly fooled you into getting it completely backwards. You said it spot, own it or retract it. Don't pretend you did not say it. I can quote you if you want.

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #177 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 9:17am

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Quote:

I do not claim to speak for abu. I do not represent or misrepresent his views i do not make any claims on what he says except for when he answered my question.

You have claimed many times to know what he wants, when he clearly fooled you into getting it completely backwards. You said it spot, own it or retract it. Don't pretend you did not say it. I can quote you if you want.

No - i dont claim to know what he wants apart from the answer he gave me to the question. Quit trying to make me out to be some kinda i dunno whatever you are trying to make me out to be.

SOB

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #178 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 9:44am

Quote:

No - i dont claim to know what he wants apart from the answer he gave me to the question

And he completely fooled you with that answer. You got it completely backwards about what he wants. You went around claiming to know what Abu wants. You went around misrepresenting what Abu wants. And now you are trying to backpeddle.

You said he does not want Shariah law for Australia. You said he does not want to destroy freedom and democracy. You said he does not want to kill apostates. You are wrong on every one of these. They each demonstrate how simple it is to fool you.

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Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #179 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:29am

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Quote:

No - i dont claim to know what he wants apart from the answer he gave me to the question

And he completely fooled you with that answer. You got it completely backwards about what he wants. You went around claiming to know what Abu wants. You went around misrepresenting what Abu wants. And now you are trying to backpeddle.

You said he does not want Shariah law for Australia. You said he does not want to destroy freedom and democracy. You said he does not want to kill apostates. You are wrong on every one of these. They each demonstrate how simple it is to fool you.

He said he didnt want to kill me or any other australians. That was part of his answer.

SOB

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