Australian Politics Forum - Is This What We Can Look Forward To?

abu_rashid

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #15 - Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:25pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

If they actually wanted the people to choose their own leaders, they would welcome democracy. It is a far easier and surer path than the sort of dictatorships that Muslims favour. It would make it prety much inevitable. The problem is that Muslims do not want 'the people' the choose their own leaders. Islam is meant to be imposed from above. That is why so many Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting tooth and nail against the will of the people. They are willing to die to prevent their own countrymen from choosing leaders. The reason is of course, that the people would not choose Islamic leaders or Islamic law. That is why we see these absurdly tortuous attempts to deconstruct democracy from Abu and Falah.

Quote:

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom

What does political freedom mean Abu? If you can be stoned to death under Islamic law for apostasy on the grounds that it is a treasonous offence, how is it even remotely valid to claim that Muslims want it?

So why is it that as we speak, the Egyptian military (an institution known to be directly controlled from Washington) is attempting to dismantle the popularly elected parliament and president, in order to install their own Hosni MKII?

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Bobby.

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #16 - Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:31pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.15 (Maroof, Afghanistan) - Terrorists detonate a bomb at a marketplace, killing a patron.
2012.06.14 (Parang, Philippines) - A 90-year-old woman is among four people strafed with machine-gun fire by Abu Sayyaf.
2012.06.13 (Hillah, Iraq) - Twenty-two people at a restaurant are massacred in mid-bite by two Sunni car bombs.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Sixteen people at a dining hall are liquidated by Religion of Peace blast.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A bomb at a commercial compound rips nine people to shreds.
2012.06.13 (Fallujah, Iraq) - Women and children are among the casualties when Jihadis blow up a house.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Why do we bring them to our country in Australia?

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Adamant

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #17 - Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:36pm

More of that peculiar type of love being spread around unsparingly.

I find it disgusting that supposed HUMANS continue to do this type of thing?

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.23 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Islamic militants are suspected in the target killing of eight men at a laundrymat.
2012.06.23 (Zinjibar, Yemen) - Thirty-five people are killed in a series of al-Qaeda landmine blasts.
2012.06.22 (Laddah, Pakistan) - Fundamentalsts capture and behead seven local soldiers.
2012.06.22 (Karachi, Pakistan) - Two seminary teachers are assassinated by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.06.22 (Baghdad, Iraq) - 'Insurgents' set off a nail bomb at a crowded market, killing at least a dozen innocents and leaving over a hundred more injured.
2012.06.21 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Religion of Peace rivals bomb a mosque, killing two worshippers.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

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Adamant

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #18 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 12:35am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:31pm:

Adamant wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.15 (Maroof, Afghanistan) - Terrorists detonate a bomb at a marketplace, killing a patron.
2012.06.14 (Parang, Philippines) - A 90-year-old woman is among four people strafed with machine-gun fire by Abu Sayyaf.
2012.06.13 (Hillah, Iraq) - Twenty-two people at a restaurant are massacred in mid-bite by two Sunni car bombs.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Sixteen people at a dining hall are liquidated by Religion of Peace blast.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A bomb at a commercial compound rips nine people to shreds.
2012.06.13 (Fallujah, Iraq) - Women and children are among the casualties when Jihadis blow up a house.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Why do we bring them to our country in Australia?

I have often thought of this myself and have no sensible answer as to why a country would like to import such trouble with a capitol "T".

I was born in the UK and growing up there in the 60ties islam had a small footprint. Hindus and Sikhs predominated immigration at that time. Racial problems did occur Indians were denigrated and ridiculed by some.

"PAKI BASHING" came a bit later the reason for this I think was not colour or race but more the way they promoted their way of life. The in your face attitude that muslims have. The "I" am better than you attitude that pervades all of muslim though gives rise to hatred.

The stupidity of thought that muslims are always right and can never do wrong because they are part of the ummah and the ummah can do no wrong never ceases to amaze me.

The only way forward for Australian immigration is to ban all muslims from entering! If this does not happen in 10 years we will have muslim terrorist successfully blowing things up in OZ

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falah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3162	Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To? Reply #19 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 1:04am Christian Terrorists Kidnapping Children Christian Terrorists Kills 18 Civilians Jewish Terrorists Kills 6 Year-Old Boy Christian Terrorists Continue Attacks in Somalia Buddhist Terrorists Attack Civilians In Burma
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falah

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #20 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 1:08am

Adamant wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 12:35am:

I have often thought of this myself and have no sensible answer as to why a country would like to import such trouble with a capitol "T".

I was born in the UK and growing up there in the 60ties islam had a small footprint. Hindus and Sikhs predominated immigration at that time. Racial problems did occur Indians were denigrated and ridiculed by some.

You are a Sikh aren't you adamant. I have been informed about you.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #21 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 6:24am

There are massacres in "western" society too. They are just more often in so called muslim countries because they dont have the means to control it. Ppl are bastards. They will kill each other. Western society kinda controls this but not altogether.

The kind of psychopaths that like to kill are usually religious. Any religion will do. normal muslims dont go out and kill ppl. Its radicals that are not controlled. In australia ppl are controlled and they dont go around killing ppl. Except occasionally. Go figger.

It depends what is socially acceptable in your culture. Mobs dont even form here normally because they will get arrested. Mobs nearly always bring violence. London "riots" etc. In poorer countries mobs form more rapidly.

SOB

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« Last Edit: Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:11am by Sir Spot of Borg »

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abu_rashid

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #22 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 7:45am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 6:24am:

There are massacres in "western: society too. They are just more often in so called muslim countries because they dont have the means to control it. Ppl are bastards. They will kill each other. Western society kinda controls this but not altogether.

Interestingly almost all the countries mentioned also have one thing in common. A U.S military presence, and U.S-backed dictators who are oppressing their people. Yet idiots like adamant can't work out what would cause such people to respond in a violent manner???

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freediver

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #23 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:32am

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

If they actually wanted the people to choose their own leaders, they would welcome democracy. It is a far easier and surer path than the sort of dictatorships that Muslims favour. It would make it prety much inevitable. The problem is that Muslims do not want 'the people' the choose their own leaders. Islam is meant to be imposed from above. That is why so many Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting tooth and nail against the will of the people. They are willing to die to prevent their own countrymen from choosing leaders. The reason is of course, that the people would not choose Islamic leaders or Islamic law. That is why we see these absurdly tortuous attempts to deconstruct democracy from Abu and Falah.

Quote:

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom

What does political freedom mean Abu? If you can be stoned to death under Islamic law for apostasy on the grounds that it is a treasonous offence, how is it even remotely valid to claim that Muslims want it?

So why is it that as we speak, the Egyptian military (an institution known to be directly controlled from Washington) is attempting to dismantle the popularly elected parliament and president, in order to install their own Hosni MKII?

I have no idea, but previously you insisted that they were directly controlled by the British military. Sounds to me like you make this sort of thing up on the spot to excuse whatever Muslims are up to.

Can you explain what you mean by political freedom?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #24 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:19pm

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:32am:

I have no idea, but previously you insisted that they were directly controlled by the British military. Sounds to me like you make this sort of thing up on the spot to excuse whatever Muslims are up to.

Can you explain what you mean by political freedom?

The British forfeited their control of Egypt and most of their other imperial possessions to their successors the U.S long ago fd, get with the program.

To me political freedom means the implementation of a political system that is in the interests of the people of the country, rather than just a control mechanism for outside powers, who seek to subjugate the nation for their own interests. It means having a political system that is beholden to the people (in matters of loyalty, not necessarily in matters of legislation) of the nation, rather than to external powers. Egypt does not have this, neither does any Arab/Muslim country.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47473 At my desk.	Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To? Reply #25 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:12pm Does political freedom mean and kind of personal rights or freedom for individuals? Or is it just a form of government that you approve of?
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abu_rashid

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #26 - Jun 26^th, 2012 at 12:19am

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:12pm:

Does political freedom mean and kind of personal rights or freedom for individuals? Or is it just a form of government that you approve of?

I don't believe it has to involve the people legislating all sorts of despicable social messes no. I don't think if the people call for it, then prostitution or gambling or alcohol or heroin should be allowed. We've been over all this before though, it obviously didn't do you much good, as you still don't get it.

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freediver

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #27 - Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am

I was thinking more along the lines of something that might be relevant to the term 'political freedom'. For example, should people be allowed to criticise the government and the government's ideology? Should they have freedom of association? Should they be allowed to establish competing political parties or organisations? For example should people be allowed to campaign for Shia in Sunni countries?

It appears to me that when you say political freedom you mean imposing shariah law on whatever people you consider to be living on lands 'owned' by Islam, and that outside of these areas you mean the right to attempt to impose it. I don't see anything in what you say that justifies the term freedom.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #28 - Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

I was thinking more along the lines of something that might be relevant to the term 'political freedom'. For example, should people be allowed to criticise the government and the government's ideology?

They should be allowed, nay mandated, to call it to account. When you say criticising, do you mean call to account? Or do you mean to make disparaging remarks about? Constructive criticism, sure.

Can I criticise the government and its ideology "freely" without limit in Australia?

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

Should they have freedom of association?

Generally speaking, yes.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

Should they be allowed to establish competing political parties or organisations? For example should people be allowed to campaign for Shia in Sunni countries?

No. The ideology of Islam is the only permitted ideology under Islamic rule.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

It appears to me that when you say political freedom you mean imposing shariah law on whatever people you consider to be living on lands 'owned' by Islam, and that outside of these areas you mean the right to attempt to impose it. I don't see anything in what you say that justifies the term freedom.

Freedom always has limits, this is a fact. We have different ideas on what the ideal limits should be, that's all.

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freediver

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Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Reply #29 - Jun 26^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

So when you talk about political freedom, you mean that Sunni Islam should be imposed on people and they should not be allowed to have any other political ideologies?

Quote:

Freedom always has limits, this is a fact. We have different ideas on what the ideal limits should be, that's all.

Falah, I think we disagree on what freedom means. I can't make any sense of how you equate what you described with political freedom. It is the exact opposite.

Quote:

Can I criticise the government and its ideology "freely" without limit in Australia?

So long as you don't blow up a bus, sure. Are you referring to any kind of limits in particular?

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