Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15
Send Topic Print
How Islam Saved The Jews (Read 28757 times)
Avram Horowitz
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3153
Australia
Gender: male
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #45 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:54pm
 
But you want to see my country erased from the map and for us to "go back to Europe".....

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47352
At my desk.
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #46 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 1:01pm
 
Quote:
A tribe of Jews were found guilty of treason though and executed, after they assisted an invading confederacy of Jewish & Pagan Arab armies to invade Madinah


Ah, so there was more than one massacre of Jews in Medina alone? You will have to forgive my ignorance Abu. I was not aware Muhammed made such a habit of it.

Can you explain why the Jews would help invaders if the Muslims were saving them? Perhaps they misunderstood the whole jew tax and second class citizen thing.

Quote:
If it's the ones above, no, they were treasonous criminals, who were found guilty by a court of law and were sentenced accordingly. Why would they be saved?


Because Islam saves Jews?

Quote:
Your question is the most illogical bunch of nonsense I've ever come across. Nowhere did anyone state Muslims preserved the life of every single Jew ever to come across their path.


The first sentence in Falah's opening post:

Quote:
Islam saved Jewry.


Islam sounds pretty hostile to me. Can you explain how your own views about what should be done with Israeli Jews fits into this?

Quote:
Of course criminals were executed under Islamic law, be they Jews, Zoroastrians, Muslims or Buddhists.


The entire tribe of them? On several occasions? Tell me Abu, how many Jews do you think can participate in the molestation of a woman and the murder of a man?

Can you give any examples where Muhammed slaughtered entire tribes of Muslims in response to individual crimes?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #47 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 3:12pm
 
The 99% of the Jews who lived in Arabia were not killed.

The 1% were those warriors who had broken a peace treaty and fought against the Islamic state violating the terms of a peace treaty and aiding enemies of the state in violation of treaty obligations.


Back to top
 

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47352
At my desk.
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #48 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 3:14pm
 
So the Jews that Muhammed killed in response to the murder and molestation case - they were all warriors?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #49 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 4:48pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:54pm:
But you want to see my country erased from the map and for us to "go back to Europe".....


You have no country, you're just a squatter littering someone elses home. Of course I want to see you out of their homes, leaving them  peacefully to go about their lives. If that involves you going back to wherever your grandparents left from, so be it.

For all the decent human beings who happen to live under the Zionist occupation (like those who reject the occupation and accept the dismantling of your outpost), then they should be free to stay.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Avram Horowitz
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3153
Australia
Gender: male
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #50 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 4:48pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:54pm:
But you want to see my country erased from the map and for us to "go back to Europe".....


You have no country, you're just a squatter littering someone elses home. Of course I want to see you out of their homes, leaving them  peacefully to go about their lives. If that involves you going back to wherever your grandparents left from, so be it.

For all the decent human beings who happen to live under the Zionist occupation (like those who reject the occupation and accept the dismantling of your outpost), then they should be free to stay.



No, no, no, no.

You will never ever drive me and everyone else from our home.

I am Israeli. I am born in Israel, I am a citizen of Israel.

If you think we will be moved then I am afraid you do not understand.

We offer the hand of friendship to our neighbors.

They can accept or they can have war. But understand we are more powerful than they and we will smash them into the ground.

It is their choice.

I am not European. I am Israeli.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47352
At my desk.
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #51 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:50pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 4:48pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 12:54pm:
But you want to see my country erased from the map and for us to "go back to Europe".....


You have no country, you're just a squatter littering someone elses home. Of course I want to see you out of their homes, leaving them  peacefully to go about their lives. If that involves you going back to wherever your grandparents left from, so be it.

For all the decent human beings who happen to live under the Zionist occupation (like those who reject the occupation and accept the dismantling of your outpost), then they should be free to stay.


Abu, are you referring to the entire nation of Israel?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #52 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 7:49pm
 
When Muslims Saved Jews


Issue 64 January 2010

It is written in the Qur’an, “Whoever saves one life, saves the entire world.” It is written in the Talmud, “If you save one life, it is as if you have saved the world.” And there was a time not so long ago when, once again – the Spanish 
Inquisition being another – Muslims came to the aid of Jews during their 
darkest hour. Somaiya Khan-Piachaud recounts this incredible story.


(This feature was first published in emel for issue 64 - January 2010)


January marks the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. January also marks the Holocaust Memorial Day. The horrors of the Holocaust stole the lives of millions of innocent people. The historian Robert Satloff has written that, “the Germans employed the most scientifically advanced means of the day in the most culturally advanced society in the world to kill the greatest number of people as quickly and efficiently as possible.” Yet there were notable exceptions – the German Schindler being one. Less notable were the Muslims in Europe and North Africa that saved the lives of Jews in the Second World War.

Agim Sinani’s parents hid a Jewish family in their home. They sheltered Fritz and Katherine, and their daughter Gertrude during a time of intense conflict. When German patrols came too close to their hideout, Agim’s parents would move the family back and forth between various houses. Miraculously, the 
family survived the Nazi occupation and came to England, after which all contact was lost.

During that time of systematic persecution, it is nearly impossible to accept that there was one country in Europe that saw its Jewish population grow. But that is exactly what happened in Albania and Kosovo - Jews were safe there. Muslims ignored the grave risks to themselves and sheltered not only their Jewish neighbours, but also thousands of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi terror. “During the Nazi occupation of Albania,” states Johanna Neumann of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, “there is not one confirmed instance of a Jew being handed over to the Nazis by a Muslim Albanian.” By contrast, in Macedonia, just 170 miles from the Albanian capital, the oldest Jewish community in mainland Europe was exterminated.[what religion are those Albanians? Oh yeah Christian!]

The Albanian government actively defied Nazi rule. In 1938 King Zog, the first and only Muslim King of Europe, issued four hundred passports to refugee Jews, granting them safe entry into Albania. After learning of the Nazi campaign elsewhere in Europe, the Mayor of Tirane issued documents to Jewish families, protecting them by stating they were Muslims. When the Germans occupied Albania and demanded lists of Jews from the authorities, the Albanians answered, “We don’t know any Jews, we only know Albanians.” Everybody knew, but nobody told.

The Albanians’ resistance is a hidden period in history, emerging now only after the fall of an isolationist communist regime. American photographer Norman H. Gershman has been exploring that tale. He is a long-time supporter of Yad Vashem (the Jerusalem-based Holocaust memorial), an organisation that has honoured more than 22,000 non-Jewish Holocaust-era rescuers. Gershman became fascinated by the little-known fact that Muslims had saved Jews, and decided to document their stories.

"...I do not understand what I read in the papers at all, about how every Muslim is a terrorist. I mean, how many terrorists are there in the world? Compare this to 1.2 billion Muslims. I have always wanted to focus on the goodness of people. Who are these Muslims saving Jews; whoever heard of them? That started my journey.”

...Stanford Shaw, professor of Turkish History at UCLA, has written about the thousands of Jews saved by the Turkish government. “Turkish diplomats in France spent a good deal of time organizing ‘train caravans’ to take Turkish Jews back to Turkey... In addition to providing material assistance to Turkish Jews persecuted in France and other countries occupied by the Nazis in Western Europe, Turkey also helped East European Jews persecuted in countries such as Greece, Lithuania, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Right from the start of the war, the Turkish government permitted the Jewish Agency to maintain rescue offices at hotels in Istanbul.”

Gershman’s project began as an individual quest. He first travelled to Albania in 2002 to photograph and document the stories of those who were ‘righteous’ in the face of despotism. Over a five-year period he sought out, photographed, and collected individual stories, which he then published in a photo book titled ‘Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II’.

“These were simple people, who never thought of themselves as being heroes. They risked everything,” Gershman says. “It’s a wonderful story. I am delighted to be able to bring light on the deeds they did. Whenever possible I have sought out the people who sheltered the Jews. Many have since died, and in those cases I have photographed their spouses or their children. My portraits reflect their religious and moral convictions, and their courage.”

Upon his return from Albania, Gershman contacted producer Jason Williams...They set about creating a documentary entitled God’s House – a behind-the-scenes look at Gershman’s painstaking search for Albanians who rescued Jews...

Apart from exploring the individual acts of courage, the film documents and defines Besa (meaning obligation), an ancient tradition specific to Albania. The documentary is full of stories of fathers and sons, of the duties and obligations passed from one generation to the next. “One of the main strands of the film,” Williams explains, “focuses on a Muslim son, Rexhep Hoxha, who is determined to fulfil the Besa agreed to by his father; he is equally determined not to hand on that obligation to his own son.” The film also tells the story of a Jewish son who was brought to Albania and “saved by this surrogate Muslim father…These stories of fathers and sons are very tightly interwoven,” Williams adds.

The tradition of Besa still compels modern-day Albanians to fulfil past promises. God’s House follows Rexhep Hoxha, an Albanian toyshop owner who has an interesting family heirloom - a set of beautifully bound books written in Hebrew, entrusted to his father by a Jewish family headed by Nissim Aladjem. Nissim had promised to return for these treasured possessions, but for 66 years the Hoxha family waited hoping that one day the Aladjems would reclaim it. With no sign of the Aladjems, Rexhep promised his father that he would return the books. A generation after the Hoxhas sheltered Nissim, Sara and their 10-year-old son Aron, Rexhep journeys to Jerusalem in search of Aron.

Although the film uncovers the past, one cannot help but feel that it may have important present-day consequences as well. Williams is hopeful the film, which will premier this year, will provide a basis for dialogue, “Here is an instance where we have fully documented a Muslim community which recognised the coming of the Holocaust, responded to the Holocaust, and worked to give refuge to Jews..."

...
Rexhep Rifat Hoxha, with Hebrew books left behind by a Jewish family his father sheltered. The documentary God’s House explores his determination to fulfil the Besa (obligation) agreed to by his father in returning the books to their rightful owner. 

Even at the age of 77, Gershman says that his work documenting those who helped save Jewish lives is not complete. “How are we ever going to find these people decades down the line? Contact has been lost between rescuers and refugees. There is so much sadness. Many Jews do not want to remember. If I find, or someone tells me, about a family who saved a Jew, I will seek them out and take their portrait....”

For his book Satloff spoke to Jews who had escaped persecution. He recounts the story of Yehuda Chachmon, a Libyan Jew interned in an Italian camp in Giado. “The Arab camp guards opted out of the sadistic torture inflicted on Jews and other prisoners by the Italians. Of the 2,600 Jews in the Giado camp 562 died in less than a year. The Italian guards treated the Jews with brutality; the attitude of the Arab guards under the Italians was excellent. They even found secret ways to ease our discomfort.”

http://www.emel.com/article?id=67&a_id=1788
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2012 at 8:04pm by falah »  

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
falah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3162
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #53 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 7:51pm
 
cont'd

Satloff tells a similar story in Tunisia. There, the wartime rulers Ahmed Pasha Bey and his cousin Moncef Bey offered vital public support for Jews facing Vichy persecution. “They regularly warned Jewish leaders of German plans, helped Jews avoid arrest orders, intervened to prevent deportations, and even hid Jews so they could evade the Germans. Moncef Bey is remembered fondly by Tunisian Jews. “He gave the Jews equal treatment,” declared Shlomo Barad. “He did not allow them to be discriminated.” 

...Men like Ali Sakkat, who opened his farm to sixty Jewish escapees from a labour camp and hid them until liberation by the Allies; Khaled Abdelwahhab who scooped up several families in the middle of the night and took them to his countryside estate to protect them...As Satloff writes in his book, “this is the most hopeful story I have ever told. Recapturing these lost stories from the Holocaust’s long reach into Arab lands offers people of good will among each community — Arab and Jewish — a way to look through the lens of one of the most powerful narratives in history and see each other differently. It is the most positive response I could offer to the events of that Tuesday morning in September.”

...
Agim Sinani, holding a photograph of his father. His family sheltered a Jewish family of three during the war. Above right, scenes from the documentary God’s House following the photographer’s journey.


http://www.emel.com/article?id=67&a_id=1788
Back to top
 

Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #54 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
If you think we will be moved then I am afraid you do not understand.


It is you who does not understand. You cannot survive amongst a sea of Arabs & an even bigger ocean of Muslims beyond that. You will never ever be accepted in Palestine, you will live constantly looking over your shoulder, knowing full well you are in someone elses home and that person, or his supporters wants to take his home back.

If you're happy to live like that temporarily, so be it, but I personally think you'd be much happier back home in Czech republic or Russia, where you belong, and where your heritage is.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
We offer the hand of friendship to our neighbors.


No you don't. You offer expulsion and refugee status to the people whose entire country you are occupying. You have no neighbours, only victims of your imposition. You are nothing but an unwanted annoyance in someone elses land.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
They can accept or they can have war.


War... or life as a refugee, yes I think it's quite obvious which one they'll choose.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
I am not European. I am Israeli.


You are European, and you know it khabeeby.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #55 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:50pm:
Abu, are you referring to the entire nation of Israel?


There is no such nation.

I am referring to the Zionist outpost that is currently polluting all of Palestine.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #56 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:52pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:11pm:
If you're happy to live like that temporarily, so be it, but I personally think you'd be much happier back home in Czech republic or Russia, where you belong, and where your heritage is.




When you converted to Islam you have switched to the Arab heritage. You should get the hell outa here and return to the place of your heritage - the 'Muslim lands'.  And don't give is the usual weaselly BS about how your ancestors came from Germany and how you are an Australian born ZZ Top numpty. With your heritage in Araby, you should get packing and fook off to where your adopted heritage is.

This is no different to what you are saying to the Jews of Israel, except perhaps for the peppery language. So cut the Islamist double standards and hypocrisy. Fook off or shut up. .


Can I say this? Is this Islamophobic?






Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:11pm by Soren »  
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47352
At my desk.
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #57 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:08pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:12pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:50pm:
Abu, are you referring to the entire nation of Israel?


There is no such nation.

I am referring to the Zionist outpost that is currently polluting all of Palestine.


So the nation of Israel is a figment of our collective imagination?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #58 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:12pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:12pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:50pm:
Abu, are you referring to the entire nation of Israel?


There is no such nation.

I am referring to the Zionist outpost that is currently polluting all of Palestine.



SO what about the various mosques and Muslim ghettos dotting the Western world - what about that pollution? You gonna clear out?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: How Islam Saved The Jews
Reply #59 - Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:15pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 9:11pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
I am not European. I am Israeli.


You are European, and you know it khabeeby.



Well, you are no Australian, you are an alien. And you know it, jihadi.

.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 15
Send Topic Print