Australian Politics Forum - Smugglers posing as refugees

Maqqa

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #30 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:58pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Also interesting to note you did not post a link for your claims yet I have posted a link.

Let me fix that for you:

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum/boats.php

"Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are not engaging in illegal activity. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a lawful right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

"In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation."

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum/boats.php

Let me enlighten you with the fact that I have NEVER called "the act of claiming" refugee status as illegal!!

Let me enlighten you the process:

(1) Arrival in Australia without a valid documentation is illegal. At this stage they are classified as illegal

(2) Two choices are opened to this illegal. First deportation. Second they claim asylum. At this stage they are STILL classified as ILLEGAL

(3) An assessment is made. At this stage they are still classified as ILLEGAL

(4) A determination is made. If their application is rejected they are deported. Or an appeal is made. But they are still ILLEGAL.

(5) If they are accepted as a refugee - then and ONLY then will they be issued with a a VISA. They can now enter Australia!!!

You are welcome!!!

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Maqqa

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #31 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:59pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Also interesting to note you did not post a link for your claims yet I have posted a link.

Let me fix that for you:

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum/boats.php

"Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are not engaging in illegal activity. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a lawful right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

"In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation."

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum/boats.php

Let me enlighten you with the fact that I have NEVER called "the act of claiming" refugee status as illegal!!

Let me enlighten you the process:

(1) Arrival in Australia without a valid documentation is illegal. At this stage they are classified as illegal

(2) Two choices are opened to this illegal. First deportation. Second they claim asylum. At this stage they are STILL classified as ILLEGAL

(3) An assessment is made. At this stage they are still classified as ILLEGAL

(4) A determination is made. If their application is rejected they are deported. Or an appeal is made. But they are still ILLEGAL.

(5) If they are accepted as a refugee - then and ONLY then will they be issued with a a VISA. They can now enter Australia!!!

You are welcome!!!

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Soren

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #32 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

Jesus, Peter, you must have been pigging out on gelatin or something similar because you are really getting thicker before our eyes.

News outlets use the word 'allegedly' when they report on something that has not yet been decided by a court. It is news - needs to be reported - but the criminality is not proven yet - so it is only an allegation.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Smugglers posing as refugees Reply #33 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:01pm If they are not illegal then there's no need to detain them!!!! So the Council can say whatever it wants - but without referencing to the applicable Immigration Laws then it's simply an opinion.
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Maqqa

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #34 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:13pm

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum/boats.php

Australia's Migration Act 1958 requires all unlawful non-citizens to be detained, regardless of circumstances, until they are granted a visa. As such, an asylum seeker who arrives or is present in Australian territory without a visa must be detained.

..

.

Interesting isn't it?

The Council says that mandatory detention is required for unlawful non-citizen and goes ahead to provide reference to the Migration Act

But it also makes a claim that these boat people are not illegal - but does no provide references

Seems strange they should provide reference for one point yet stay silent for the other.

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cods

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #35 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:26pm

adelcrow wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:53am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Lefties continue to advocate that these illegals are genuine refugee.

1. They aren't "illegals": it's perfectly legal to arrive in Australia by boat, with no passport or visa, and claim asylum.

2. The majority are granted genuine refugee status (not all, but certainly the majority).

3. If they're not genuine refugees, send them home. Simple.

I have never said the "action" of claim asylum was illegal. This is becoming tedious with the rhetoric from the left!!!

Claiming asylum is not illegal. It's actually one of the many ways of obtaining a VISA

But anyone arriving in Australia without a VISA and/or the correct paperwork is illegal

http://www.immi.gov.au/managing-australias-borders/border-security/irregular-ent...

Check your facts before posting!!!!

Also interesting to note you did not post a link for your claims yet I have posted a link. Difference is I know what I am talking about!!

I have not mentioned about the majority.

I have highlighted that this person was given refugee status within 3 months even though he is not a genuine refugee. This is a failure on the Gillard government

Showing up here without documents and claiming asylum is not illegal.
Just as losing your documents when you are overseas does make you illegal.
Falsifying documents with the intention of obtaining a visa does make you illegal

showing up here without papers isnt illegal... funny that.. has anyone heard of anyone arriving by plane without papers???>... anyone????

as adel keeps reminding us more overstayers arrive by plane and are more illegal..

even though they do have papers..

when caught they do have a passport.. which usually gives the age and country of the person carrying it..

as it is we are basically at the mercy of what the people smugglers tell their travellers what to claim when they arrive. by boat...

I am sure our immigration people have heard the lot! and the same story over and over.

I wonder what would happen to ADEL If he was caught on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan without papers....??? do you think they would send him straight down to the Australian Embassy just because he claimed he was Australian..

hoe about doing a little experiment next time you travel overseas adel.. leave your papers on a bus..you wont have a scrap of trouble by the sound of you..

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cods

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #36 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:30pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

so the ABC didnt do or say any of the things the DT has printed.. is that what you are saying??????

you are not allowed to print up other people articles without a link..a link to the APC thank you.

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #37 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:53pm

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

showing up here without papers isnt illegal... funny that..

So, why do you think these people are not charged with an offence (relating to their lack of documentation)?

Quite simply, because they can't be. They are protected under Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention.

States "shall not impose penalties".

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #38 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 3:39pm

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

Jesus, Peter, you must have been pigging out on gelatin or something similar because you are really getting thicker before our eyes.

News outlets use the word 'allegedly' when they report on something that has not yet been decided by a court. It is news - needs to be reported - but the criminality is not proven yet - so it is only an allegation.

Rubbish. Offensive rubbish seems to be your strongest suit. After more than 40 years working in the media I suspect I might just know a little more about it than you.

The DT had not done any sort of investigation, simply taking the TV programme and shoving "allegedly" in to try and cover their backsides. There is no court case pending and not even any arrests made.

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Maqqa

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #39 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 4:23pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:53pm:

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

showing up here without papers isnt illegal... funny that..

So, why do you think these people are not charged with an offence (relating to their lack of documentation)?

Quite simply, because they can't be. They are protected under Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention.

States "shall not impose penalties".

I quoted from your very own source

They are classified as unlawful non-citizen under the Migration Act

Under this Act the penalty is deportation

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #40 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 4:34pm

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:53pm:

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

showing up here without papers isnt illegal... funny that..

So, why do you think these people are not charged with an offence (relating to their lack of documentation)?

Quite simply, because they can't be. They are protected under Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention.

States "shall not impose penalties".

I quoted from your very own source

They are classified as unlawful non-citizen under the Migration Act

Under this Act the penalty is deportation

They are not deported if they are claiming asylum.

And, they are not charged with any offence.

States "shall not impose penalties".

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #41 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 5:01pm

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:30pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

so the ABC didnt do or say any of the things the DT has printed.. is that what you are saying??????

you are not allowed to print up other people articles without a link..a link to the APC thank you.

I'm saying exactly what I am saying, nothing more, nothing less.

The adjudication is new and does not yet appear on the APC website.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/australian-press-council-makes-ruling-about-material-in-the-daily-telegraph-sydney-on-26-november-2011/story-e6freuy9-1226383959453

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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Soren

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #42 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 5:04pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

Jesus, Peter, you must have been pigging out on gelatin or something similar because you are really getting thicker before our eyes.

News outlets use the word 'allegedly' when they report on something that has not yet been decided by a court. It is news - needs to be reported - but the criminality is not proven yet - so it is only an allegation.

Rubbish. Offensive rubbish seems to be your strongest suit. After more than 40 years working in the media I suspect I might just know a little more about it than you.

The DT had not done any sort of investigation, simply taking the TV programme and shoving "allegedly" in to try and cover their backsides. There is no court case pending and not even any arrests made.

You worked more than 40 years in the media, did you? As what, a newsagent?

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angeleyes

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Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #43 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 5:10pm

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 5:04pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 3:39pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

As always the right wing media waxes hysterically and those who believe everything they read in the rightwing media bark on command.

The Sydney Daily Telegraph, in a beat up on the Four Corner's programme, uses the term "alleged" or "allegedly" NINE times in its article.

Translated, the term means: "Look, we have no idea whether this is true or not, but we're going to publish it anyway because it suits our prejudices."

Ironically the DT article appears alongside a report that the Australian Press Council has caned the newspaper for "an especially serious breach of its principles" in previous coverage of asylum seekers. The APC found the DT's coverage was "gravely inaccurate, unfair and offensive".

Jesus, Peter, you must have been pigging out on gelatin or something similar because you are really getting thicker before our eyes.

News outlets use the word 'allegedly' when they report on something that has not yet been decided by a court. It is news - needs to be reported - but the criminality is not proven yet - so it is only an allegation.

Rubbish. Offensive rubbish seems to be your strongest suit. After more than 40 years working in the media I suspect I might just know a little more about it than you.

The DT had not done any sort of investigation, simply taking the TV programme and shoving "allegedly" in to try and cover their backsides. There is no court case pending and not even any arrests made.

You worked more than 40 years in the media, did you? As what, a newsagent?

Paperboy.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Smugglers posing as refugees
Reply #44 - Jun 5^th, 2012 at 5:49pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 4:34pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:53pm:

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

showing up here without papers isnt illegal... funny that..

So, why do you think these people are not charged with an offence (relating to their lack of documentation)?

Quite simply, because they can't be. They are protected under Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention.

States "shall not impose penalties".

I quoted from your very own source

They are classified as unlawful non-citizen under the Migration Act

Under this Act the penalty is deportation

They are not deported if they are claiming asylum.

And, they are not charged with any offence.

States "shall not impose penalties".

Claiming refugee status is one way of getting a VISA

If the claims cannot be verified then no VISA is issued and the illegal will be deported

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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