freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2012 at 8:56am:


You really hate muslims dont you. Hitler didnt like anyone that wasnt true blood german. It wasnt just about jews. In fact it wasnt even really about religion since he was xtian and xtians supposedly like jews.

SOB

Haj Amin al-Husseini helped to raise an army of 20 thousand Muslims to form 13th and 21st divisions of the Waffen SS in the Second World War. He was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem; it is thought by some that he helped to design the gas chambers for killing Jews. He was highly regarded by Hitler.


The Massacre at Koritska Gorge, Bosnia-Hercegovina, 1941
At the end of May 1941, a truck carrying 30 to 40 armed people stopped one day in front of the elementary school in the village of Korita. One could see right away that this was no regular unit of the army of the newly founded NDH, about which there were terrible reports in the air. They wore very colorful paramilitary suits, but wore a Fez as a symbol of the membership in Islam. Soon we were sure that these were mainly our neighbours - Muslim's from Kula Fazlagic, Gracanica, and Gacko, who called themselves gendarmes.
At first they chased the children out of the school so they could have the place for themselves; then some of them went to the house of my father, Mihajlo Bjelica; back then we had a shop and a cafe on the street that led from Bileca to Gacko. I worked in the shop, my brother Adam (Golub) worked in the cafe.
The unwelcome guests entered the two shops in a gruff manner and posted on the door an order that we were not to sell alcoholic drinks to anyone but them and threatened that any contrary behavior would be punished on the spot with death. The order was signed by their commander Muharem Glavinic (so they called him), the Hodza from the neighboring village Kljuc.
The next two or three days were spent in anxious expectation. We lived the first of June of this terrible year of war in uncertainty. It was Sunday, a beautiful sunny spring day, which I will never forget. On this day, the Ustasha horde of the Hodza Muharem Glavinic arrested two young men, Boro and Andrija Svorcan above the village Korita in Pitoma Gradina near the border of Montenegro. They bound them with their hands at their backs and drove them to Gacko as they mercilessly hit them with their fists and the rifle butts and kicked them with their feet. On the morning of the 2nd of June, on the next day, the Ustashe got some back-up from Gacko with the Gauleiter Kreso Herman Tonagal at their head. In addition to the above mentioned young men that they had driven to Gacko on the previous day, they were carrying more people arrested along the way. Shortly thereafter Ustasha patrols appeared throughout the whole village and demanded that all men between 16 and 60 come to the Sokolski Dom [=community house, translator's note] to a meeting at which the chief of the Ustasha government in Zagreb would explain who would be permitted to cross the border into Montenegro and whose permission would have to be obtained, and would tell them other regulations of the new government. They especially emphasized that hidden weapons and military equipment had to be brought along and threatened with death anyone who declined to do so. Since our pasture lands and tillable land lay scattered between the estates of the neighboring Montenegro villages, the people thought this assembly to be reasonable and normal for the given circumstances and obeyed without argument. Anyone who grumbled and hesitated got yelled at in a stern voice by the Ustasha patrols: "What are you waiting for? You heard the order!" and were forcefully brought to the Sokolski Dom.
Around 4:00 p.m. on this fateful day, a larger group of Ustashe came into our cafe with Kreso Herman Tonogal heading them. My brother Golub and I served them drinks, of course without getting paid. As soon as they had warmed themselves a bit, the Gauleiter Tonogal called: "Enough! Take them away!" Some of the Ustashe pointed their guns at us and shouted: "Hands up!" After a thorough search, they asked us where the money, our storage area, and the keys for the shop and the cash register were. We showed them everything without argument and asked the Gauleiter for permission to say goodbye to our father, who was lying upstairs on his sick bed. We hoped that they would allow this and planned to escape. But as he must have read our thoughts, the Ustasha shouted gruffly: "No way!" With great effort, I suppressed my anger, turned calmly to him, and said:
"Sir, it is sad that they are arresting us with no reason whatsoever. We have been earning our living here honestly and with great effort. Everyone who has been in here we have treated fairly and hospitably with no concern for their religion; for the duration of the former state, neither I, my father, nor my brother have ever hurt a fly, not to mention committing any harm to a human being. Your armed people know that, too; just ask them."
"I know who you are and how you are, but I can't help you; I can't help the fact that you are Serbs, that you belong to the people among whom the new laws of the state make no distinction. You are all guilty for what happened during the time of the former Yugoslavia, and you will pay for it, everyone of you, down to the last." This was his answer, and then he called: "Forward!"
At this command, the henchmen shoved us crudely with their rifle butts and drove us into the great hall of the Sokolski Dom, which was stuffed with arrested people, our neighbors. At the doors, two guards were posted and at the window a machine gun. One Ustasha came in with us and informed the arrested people that the meeting would be held only when everyone was there, right down to the last man, and when the head of the Ustasha government was there from Gacko.
We sat in the humid and clammy room on the bare floor. In the worried faces of the people, one could see a terrible fear, like people who are condemned to death. All night long we did not sleep and spoke in whispers about what would happen to us. Most of them found consolation in the hope that they would be hauled off to do compulsory labor or put into some sort of a camp, the way the Austro-Hungarian government did in the First World War. When day came, we asked a guard why the meeting was not being held and when they would release us. He answered that the Gauleiter was not there and that no one would be released without him.
In the course of the 3rd of June, women came with bags and blankets, but they were not allowed to have contact with us; the guards brought the things in and gave them to those for whom they were meant. I will never forget the moment when Gojko Bjelica cut into a piece of smoked lamb and cried: "No one from my family will get out of this alive; I don't have a brother anymore; only one of us will survive - severely wounded." Although I was never superstitious, Gojko's talk this time seemed uncanny.
In fear and confusion, we spent one more sleepless night from the 3rd to the 4th of June. On Wednesday the 4th of June, suddenly the Gauleiter Tonogal came in the morning and informed us in a threatening voice that all those who would surrender their hidden weapons - "We know that you have some," he shouted angrily could go home right away, while those who refused would have to go into forced labor. After he left, I looked through a hole in the side door and saw what was happening outside. I saw how the Ustashe were getting into formation; there were enough there. Their oldest ones stood in front of the ranks; one of them said something. During the whole time of his speech, the others were holding their left hand on their breast. Later I learned that the Moslems, according to their religious customs, did this when they took oaths to kill nonbelievers, since this was an act pleasing to God.
After administering the oath, the Gauleiter with a pistol shot gave the sign to begin the massacre. Here I must mention that there is no truth in the talk that some Ustasha guards gave us a clue in any way as to what awaited us and this allegedly gave us the possibility to escape. Quite the contrary. Their behavior toward us was inhuman - like that of a henchman. It is true that not all of them hit us and tormented us in the same manner (some apparently avoided it), but none of them defended us. Since all leading Ustasha personalities at this time publicly called for the slaughter of the Serbs and for their expulsion from the land, it is hardly believable that those who came to Korito did not know why. It is much more likely that they all had appeared voluntarily for this pogrom, firmly convinced that now the Serbian people in the NDH and of course in Herzegovina would be grubbed out like weeds. That's why they hastened to beat the others out in grabbing their possessions.
When the sign was given to begin the slaughter, some Ustashe pushed their way in to us and commanded: "Sit down!" After each of us sat down right where we were standing, they led one after the other into the cloak room, where five chosen henchmen, probably volunteers, were waiting. One of them (Becir Music) cut a wash line (not wire, as some people maintain) into pieces and gave these to Alid Krvavac from Gacko, who with two helpers whose names I do not know, bound the victims' hands behind their backs; at first singly and then in threes - back to back. With a pistol in his hand and in a new airforce uniform, Serif Zvizdic from Gacko observed their work.

TBC                 Quoted in Dedijer, p155-164

"You won't stay alive. bugger your Montenegrin mother," hissed the murderer and plunged a bayonet into my breast - fortunately on the right side.
When I regained consciousness, I learned that I was at the bottom of the hollow on a heap of bodies. I was terribly thirsty and slowly got used to the darkness. Somehow I managed to pull my left, uninjured arm out from under my body. With its help, I pulled out my right, completely immobile arm. Carefully I felt around me. Everywhere there were only bodies. There was something sticky on my hand. I began to shiver from the cold. In the heap of bodies, someone was gasping as if he were snoring. The horrifying feeling to be on a heap of dead people forced me to find a safe place, no matter where. I heard something that sounded like water dripping, which instilled even more the feeling of thirst in me. I stared in that direction and felt my way to a little split in the cliff and stuck my head in. In vain I tried to get a few drops of water into my dry mouth. Suddenly I heard the rattling of the motors, then people running back and forth and screams of pain, then the cracking of guns and the dull sound of victims rolling down the cliff. They fell like logs all around me, like the stones that the shepherds of Korita used to throw into the gorge to frighten the pigeons. This process was repeated about ten times in brief spurts; then there was dead silence in the Koritska Jama.
Once the truck had taken off in the direction of Korita, I noticed that someone was scraping along the walls of the cliff. He found my hiding place, laid himself between my legs, and rested his head on me. I felt his head with my good hand and asked: "Who are you?"
He gave a start, quickly composed himself and answered: "it's me!"
By his voice I recognized Vidak Glusac and said: "For God's sake, Vidak. How did you get here? Didn't the Ustashe release you after you confessed to having a gun?"
"Oh no!" cried Vidak. "Those scoundrels broke their promise; after I surrendered the gun, they brought me back again and put me in the truck. Then they drove me to the gorge and threw me in alive."
Three more times the truck came to the gorge from the Sokolski Dom loaded with the other unfortunate ones, and the massacre was continued in the same way. At first we could hear curses mixed with cries of pain, then the crack of guns, dull blows, and finally the bodies rolling down the face of the cliff. The heap of bodies at the bottom of the gorge got higher and higher. From there we could hear the last gasps of the victims who were not yet dead; with our help, a few managed to escape death.
When in the twilight of 5 June the last group had been liquidated, we determined that a total of eight people had survived this fateful night: Milija Bjelica, Radovan Sakota, Dusan and Acim Jaksic, Rade Svorcan, Vidak and Vlado Glusac, and Obren Nosovic. With an insane fear, we were sure that the bodies of our wives, children, and elders were lying there before us. We breathed a sigh of relief and for a moment forgot this darkest human insanity that we had survived under miraculous circumstances, when into the pit fell our bags, the blankets, and other things that our women folk had brought while we were imprisoned in the Sokolski Dom. Also various tools fell down: axes, hammers, adzes, with which the henchmen had killed their victims. Some hand grenades also followed, which fortunately fell into the cliff wall high above us and exploded there. Finally a whole heap of rock debris came tumbling down. We also heard derisive calls like: "Haman, didn't we find you a nice hiding place and covered you with a nice soft blanket."
A while later we heard the bells of a big herd of cows passing the Koritska Jama in the direction of Kula Fazlagic. While the gorge of Golubnjaca was still steaming from the blood of the murder victims, the murderers ran into the village like beasts of prey to plunder the animals and other mobile belongings of their victims, thus leaving the orphaned children, wives, and weak old folk without a drop of milk. Later I read in an Ustasha report that on this occasion 5,294 head of small and large animals were driven from Korita. I maintain that the number was greater by far, for the village of Korita had been famous for its wealth of animals, especially goats and sheep.
We spent all of 5 June in the gorge and didn't try to do anything. Only in the evening twilight, when everything was still, did Dusan Jaksic and Radovan Sakota, who were not seriously wounded, try to get out of the gorge. First Radovan Sakota laid me so that the water would drip on any face from the side; I managed to get individual drops into my mouth. Dusan and Radovan used axes and rope that the Ustashe had thrown into the gorge and they succeeded in climbing out. We waited in fear for what would happen then; we were afraid that Ustasha guards had been placed around the gorge. Only when a belt was thrown down from above (we planned it thus) did we know that everything was OK. This again aroused our hopes for rescue.
But we had to wait for a long time yet in the dark grave of so many people and in the unbearable stench of blood and bodies. Again on 6 June, the Ustashe plundered the village and liquidated the arrested Milosevics from the village of Nemanjica and the Milovics from Zagradac near the school in Korita. Along with the Milosevics and the Milovics, Radovan Sarovic from Stepen was killed on this day, while the mutilated bodies of Dorda Glusac and Branko Kovacevic were found later at the wall of the Trkljina. On the Kubilia headlands, they shot seven of the Milovics, while three men (Radovan, Blagoje, and Lazar) were able to escape; the brothers Milovan and Dusan Milosevic managed to escape from the courtyard of the school at Korita, so that the news of the Ustasha crimes was spread like the wind throughout all of northeast Herzegovina. Armed people from Gornje and Donje Crkvice, Vrbica, Somina, Crni Kuk, and other neighboring villages rushed to the Koritska Jama to rescue the survivors. All the adults of the Kurdulija fraternity joined them, who knew this area well. After they had gotten strong backup from Gacko and Bilece, a group came to the gorge. As long as I live, I will remember the moment when we heard the strong voice of Todor Micunovic from Crkvice: "Oh Milija, try to be patient. Don't worry, we will get you out of here." Soon the brave and bold Petar Kurdulija climbed down on a rope into the gorge. From up above they called to him that he should tie me first, because I was the most seriously wounded; then one after the other, as many as they could; apparently they were afraid that stronger units of the Ustasha or of Italians could come. But I asked Petar to take up the 16-year-old Rado Svorcan first, because his mother had only him, while mine had two children. Only after I heard a determined voice from above: "Don't worry, Milija, you will all get out," did I consent to being the first to be pulled up. Petar wrapped the rope around my belly, tied my broken right arm to my breast, and told me that I had to hold the rope tight with my left hand and kick myself out from the cliff with my legs. That's how I was pulled up from the gorge of Golubnjaca, which since this terrible event has been known as Koritska Jama, the common grave of Svorcan, Bjelica, Glusac, Nosovic, Jaksic, Sakota, Milosevic, Milovic, Kovacevic, and all the others - in all, over 150 victims. While the others were being pulled out, there was a misunderstanding: someone called out that an Italian, motorized column was coming from Bilece. The rescue was thus interrupted; only Obren Nosovic was still in the gorge. But our rescuers waited. When the error was cleared up, Ljubo Kurdulija, later a fearless warrior whose heroic deeds were the talk of all of Herzegovina, climbed down into the gorge and brought Obren up.
After I had been brought up into the daylight, I could hardly believe that I had escaped death, which had been hovering before my eyes for almost five whole days (I was arrested on 2 June). I heard and recognized the voices of my rescuers, among whom was my mother. She asked about Golub, and I only looked at her. Obren Nosovic's son pulled at my sleeve and asked: "Uncle is my father still alive?"
"One Obren Nosovic is alive. But I don't know which one, since both had been thrown into the gorge," I replied with great effort.
They immediately put me onto a horse and we took off. In the saddle, I managed to hold out until we got to Mrda Kurduliga's house, which was not far away. There they had prepared a stretcher, on which they carried me to the house of Vulo Micunovic in Crkvice. Soon the other survivors from the village of Korita came there. The residents of Crkice and the members of other neighboring Montenegrin villages welcomed us as kindly as their grandfathers had done in the past. They shared not only their homes with us, but also the last piece of bread. Armed men went to Gacko immediately, where, as they told us, battles had begun against the Ustasha For that, the surviving inhabitants of the village of Korita will forever be grateful to them.
We who had survived the massacre in the Koritska Jama were examined by Dr. Vojo Dukanovic and Dr. Jovan Bulajic. Vojo gave me a shot for blood poisoning and told Vulo Micunovic, in whose house I was, to get me to the hospital in Niksic as quickly as possible and to have me operated on there, because it was the only way to save any life. That is what happened. Micunovic and the Kraljevics brought me to Miksic on a stretcher with the help of other residents of Crkvice; with us came also the two doctors mentioned above. Thanks to their connections, I was taken into the hospital and operated on immediately. I was in treatment for 48 days.

Quoted in Dedijer, p155-164

I don’t hate Muslims, after reading this account I can understand why a lot of people do.

President Alija Izetbegovic (deceased Muslim fanatic ) declared Bosnian independence in 1992 from the Balkan States he was also in the Nazi army in the Second World War




Alija Izetbegovic: his background and philosophies
BALKAN RESEARCH CENTRE (UK) MEMBERS BRIEF - December 1992
A briefing paper produced for Members for the 1992/3 Session of the British Parliament Monday 21 December 1992

ALIJA IZETBEGOVIC - BRIEF

ALIJA IZETBEGOVIC, leader of the SDA (Muslim Party of Democratic Action), is currently the President of the Presidency of Bosnia-Hercegovina. He was born in Bosanski Samac in 1925, went to school in Sarajevo, and eventually completed law school; he had no schooling in religion within the Islamic school system .

Izetbegovic's Early Years

From his early youth, Izetbegovic dedicated himself to Islamic work. At 16 he became part of the group that founded religious-political organisation "Yung Muslims" in Sarajevo, in 1940. From the very outset the "YM" was modelled on fundamentalist formations in the Islamic world, such as "As- subban al-muslimun" and "Al-ikwan al-muslimun". One of the five points of the "YM" programme insisted on the unity of the Muslim world through the creation of one large Muslim state .

During the Second World War, the "YM" grew and become part of a network of Islamic religious groups headed by the highly conservative theologian of the Mehmed Handzic (1906-1944). The "YM" were not officially pro-fascist in orientation, though they were pursuit for this by the Communist regime after 1945. There were, however, many individual examples of active collaboration with the Ustashi government .

Izetbegovic was arrested in 1946, for his significant participation in founding the Muslim journal MUDZAHID. He spent the next three years in jail for promoting hatred. At the same time, his friend Nedzib Sacirbegovic was given a four year prison sentence. Sacirbegovic is now Izetbegovic's personal representative in the USA and his son Muhamed, is Bosnia-Hercegovina's ambassador to the UN. Izetbegovic has systematically promoted to top positions in the SDA people who were political "cadres" in the original "YM" movement .

In February 1949, the "Yung Muslims" started an open revolt . This was short-lived. During subsequent trials held in Sarajevo in 1949, four members of the "YM" were sentenced to death and many were given prison sentences . After this lesson, Islamic activists stopped creating illegal groups and started working on Islamisation "from underneath" . This meant penetrating the very pores of the system's institutions, including the formal Islamic community, because the activists considered their leaders to be traitors to the authentic Islamic cause. From the beginning Izetbegovic preferred Shiite Islamic radicalism in comparison to the Sunni .

Izetbegovic's doctrine - "The Islamic Declaration"

Izetbegovic published many articles in Muslim journals (TAKVIM, GVIS, etc.), discussing the sad state of Islam and the necessity for its universal regeneration . In 1970, he wrote and distributed to people of confidence, his specific manifesto or programme for radical pan-Islam - the ISLAMIC DECLARATION .

In this booklet, similar to many of the same type circulating in the Islamic world, but the only one of its sort in Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic advocated:

- general Islamic moral and religious regeneration;
- a return to true Islamic values;
- (re)Islamisation of Muslims;
- creation and strengthening of different types of Islamic unity;
- struggle, up to and including political and armed war for the creation of an Islamic order in countries where Muslims represent majority, or near majority of the population .

In line with his pan-Islamic and anti-secular thinking,Izetbegovic stated in the ISLAMIC DECLARATION that: - there should be the establishment of "a united Islamic community from Morocco to Indonesia";
- with reference to the Turkish model - "Turkey as an Islamic country used to rule the world. Turkey as an imitation of Europe represents a third-rate country, the like of which there is a hundred in the world.";
- "there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions";
- "the Islamic movement must and can, take over political power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic power, but also to build up a new Islamic one" .

The ISLAMIC DECLARATION is imbued with a deep-set intolerance towards "the values of western civilisation", both capitalist and Marxist. It was re-published in 1990 in Sarajevo, testifying to the fact that its author, in the meantime, had in no way gone back on his positions - one of Islamic fundamentalism .

Muslims who gathered around the re-published ISLAMIC DECLARATION, were former members of the "YM" and new activists. They tie their activities to those of Muslim centres abroad - religious, political, propaganda and economic - above all with specific groups in Iran .

In his book ISLAM BETWEEN EAST AND WEST, published firs in the USA (1984) and then Turkey, develops his views on the superiority of Islam over all other religions, cultures, ideologies and philosophies. This book was published in Serbo- Croatian, only in Belgrade in 1988; the Sarajevo authorities used all means to prevent it getting published at all .

Izetbegovic - leader of Bosnia's Muslims

With a group of Muslim activists, Izetbegovic was arrested in 1983 for activities against the state. As the chief defendant, he was sentenced to fourteen years. In 1988, he was released after less than six years of prison . After the fall of Communism in Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic became one of the leaders in the creation of the SDA party (1990), as a Muslim political party. He was elected President with the support of his old fellows from the ranks of the "YM" and the support of the young radicals .

Izetbegovic gave his new, nominally national and civilian political party, a deeply-set religious connotation. As the first president of the collective Presidency of this young state, and by far the most influential Muslim politician on the soil of former Yugoslavia (having ousted his more popular rival Fikret Abdic), the strength of his position allows him to pursue his youthful (pan)Islamic dreams .

His internal and external policies changed tactfully as per the power struggle both inside and outside of Yugoslavia. But, from a strategic standpoint Izetbegovic has not budget an inch from his early conception that "every good Muslim, through his formal engagement, including the political one, at all times and all places, must above all serve Islam, by force if necessary" . Because of Izetbegovic's anti-Communism, the fundamentalist radicalism of the political programme contained in the ISLAMIC DECLARATION, went virtually unnoticed in most western countries .

As such, the rise of a native and authentic Islamic fundamentalist movement in Yugoslavia, was for the West, up until recently, an incomprehensible and inconceivable idea .

For some, it remains so today . This fanatical conviction of Izetbegovic - namely that the highest motive justifies every move, every decision, (including that of disposing of his predecessors), has definitely helped plunge Bosnia into the midst of an ethnic and religious war .

Summary

Only after one carefully considers the foregoing does it become understandable why, recently, Izetbegovic signed an agreement for the "cantonisation" of Bosnia with representatives of the European Community in Lisbon, and cancelled it two days later. Izetbegovic will accept any kind of deal in order to get his way - he is not ashamed if it is proved that he lies, because he says "all is allowed for Islam" .

Now it seems logical why Izetbegovic visited only radical Muslim countries during the first nine months of his presidency . Izetbegovic is a man who is willing to sacrifice half of the population to achieve his religious goals - to be the first president od an Islamic state in Europe - however small . In the light of above facts one can better understand Izetbegovic's statements of sympathy for the "Islamic Revolution" in Iran .

Only Izetbegovic and Ayatollah Khomeini, out of all presidents who officially visited Turkey, did not pay respect to the grave of Ataturk - for them he was traitor of fundamentalist Muslim principles .

This web site, intended for research purposes, contains copyright material included "for fair use only"

freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 7:43pm:



Did you read how the practitioner's of the religion of peace tied people in three's and try to shoot them all at the same time. Going back in history islam killed and persecuted ALL RELIGIONS AND ALL PEOPLE in the old state known then as Yugoslavia. You can understand why mulims are classed as scum in that area of the globe.

Albanian Muslims Saved Jews from the Holocaust

In a CBC radio documentary (November 2010) Heda Aly notes that, “In a little known fact of history, in Muslim Albania, not a single Jew was handed over to the Nazis during WW2 because opening your door to strangers is entrenched in an ancient Albanian code of honour, Besa.”...

...In the CBC documentary Randi Winter, a colleague of Norman Gershman, tells the story of a Muslim family that was hiding a Jewish boy. The Nazis came to the door and demanded “Give us the Jew.” The father replied that there were no Jews in his house, only his two Muslim sons.

Winter tells how the Nazis said they knew he only had one. The father “turned to his son and said, in a quiet voice, ‘Now is the time to show who we are.’ And when they asked for the Jew his own son stepped forward and they shot him on the spot.”

Alberto Colonomos and his family were among those hidden from the Nazis. David Weinberg, writing for Voice of America (December 2010) reports that, “A wealthy man who worked in a tobacco factory took in the Colonomos family. Unlike many Jews in other parts of Europe who survived the war in cellars and attics, Jews in Albania were …treated as honoured guests.” Besa dictated that the welfare of guests was put before that of family.

Colonomos, who was ten when the Germans arrived, said the host family knew of the risks they were taking: “They really hid us with their lives. They knew that the Germans - the consequences if they catch them were very, very stiff. So they would be shot. But when they have that Besa, they will not denounce their guests. They were amazing people.”

It’s estimated that as many as 2,000 people were saved from the gas chambers by the actions of Albanian Muslims...

http://suite101.com/article/albanian-muslims-saved-jews-from-the-holocaust-a4036...

Quote:

Bosnia Jews Repay Muslims

Motive:...in gratitude to the Muslims who hid Jews during the Nazi occupation...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=S2RcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0FYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1507,4720...

Holocaust Survivor: Bosnian Muslims Saved Our Lives in 1941

http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/jakob-ehrlich.jpgw=614

...In 1941, when the Germans invaded Yugoslavia – a melting pot of Christians, Muslims and Jews; and of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes – it was Isidor’s Muslim soccer friends who encouraged him to flee Sarajevo. When the young father tried to persuade the extended members of his family to do the same, they laughed at him. And most did not survive the war.

With help from several of their Muslim friends, the Ehrlichs were able to escape detection by the Nazi’s Croatian collaborators and flee Sarajevo disguised as Muslims. They traveled by train to Mostar, a Yugoslavian territory occupied by Italians, Germans and Croats, and stayed with a Muslim family. “They could have been shot for helping us,” he says...


https://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/holocaust-survivor-b...

falah wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 12:03am:


freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2012 at 7:27pm:

Since '94 Horror, Rwandans Turn Toward Islam

When 800,000 of their countrymen were killed in massacres that began 10 years ago this week, many Rwandans lost faith not only in their government but in their religion as well. Today, in what is still a predominantly Catholic country, Islam is the fastest growing religion.

Roman Catholicism has been the dominant faith in Rwanda for more than a century. But many people, disgusted by the role that some priests and nuns played in the killing frenzy, have shunned organized religion altogether, and many more have turned to Islam.

''People died in my old church, and the pastor helped the killers,'' said Yakobo Djuma Nzeyimana, 21, who became a Muslim in 1996. ''I couldn't go back and pray there. I had to find something else.''

Wearing a black prayer cap, Mr. Nzeyimana was one of nearly 2,000 worshipers at the Masdjid Al Fat'h last Friday. The crowd was so large that some Muslims set their prayer mats on the dirt outside the mosque and prayed in the midday heat.

The Muslim community now boasts so many converts that it has had to embark on a crash campaign to build new mosques to accommodate all of the faithful. About 500 mosques are scattered throughout Rwanda, about double the number that existed a decade ago.

Although no accurate census has been done, Muslims leaders in Rwanda estimate that they have about a million followers, or about 15 percent of the population. That, too, would represent a doubling of their numbers in the past 10 years.

Muslim leaders credit the gains to their ability during the 1994 massacres to shield most Muslims, and many other Rwandans, from certain death. ''The Muslims handled themselves well in '94, and I wanted to be like them,'' said Alex Rutiririza, explaining why he converted to Islam last year.

With killing all around, he said, the safest place to be back then was in a Muslim neighborhood. Then as now, many of Rwanda's Muslims lived crowded together in the Biryogo neighborhood of Kigali.

During the mass killing of Tutsi, militias had the place surrounded, but Hutu Muslims did not cooperate with the Hutu killers. They said they felt far more connected through religion than through ethnicity, and Muslim Tutsi were spared.

''Nobody died in a mosque,'' said Ramadhani Rugema, executive secretary of the Muslim Association of Rwanda. ''No Muslim wanted any other Muslim to die. We stood up to the militias. And we helped many non-Muslims get away.''

Mr. Rugema, a Tutsi, said he owed his life to a Muslim stranger who hid him in his home when members of the Interahamwe militia were pursuing him...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/07/world/since-94-horror-rwandans-turn-toward-isl...

In Nigeria Muslims are trying the original way of conversion aren't they Falah?

Adamant wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:


No males left, just the females, and all the wealth...

Adamant wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

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I see. Hitler sent them running off to Israel. You want to send them running back to Europe. That is the only difference between Islam and Nazism on the matter?

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Ah, the Jew tax? Is that it, or would some have to pay with their lives, like in Muhammed's examples?

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I don't see shites as a problem to begin with, so I don't have a take on it. I am asking what your is. You started out listing which ones you would kill, then said you would spare the others so long as they... and left it hanging.

falah wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 7:38pm:



why do you live in a white person's christian country and think it is ok?

We let Muslims live in Israel.

But Muslim countries do not allow me in on my Israel passport.

Muslims are very hypocrtics a lot of the time

falah wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 12:01am:


falah if you believe that you'd believe anything ... Ivan milat also says he was innocent ... Ok, for the sake of argument, the terrorists on the planes that took out the towers then ... or are they also claiming it wasn't them? ...

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 9:16am:


Freeliar, it is has already been explained that the type of deception in warfare only means concealing military secrets such as ongoing war strategies or locations of armies and weapons, etc.

Straight-out lying about criminal events is not allowed in Islam.

Are you suggesting that Sep 11 was a part of some war?

Bin Laden was not the leader of any country, so does not have the right to make war on anyone

You are suggesting that the religious Bin Laden was knowingly committing sins?

It is a sin to disobey the leader of the Islamic state. Why would Bin Laden do this?

It is a sin to lie. Why would Bin Laden do it?

It is a sin to kill non-combatants. Why would Bin Laden do it?





The US changed its mind on the issue anyway. First they said Bin Laden was the mastermind behind Sep11, now they say it is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?


Who is the real mastermind Freeliar?

Why did the US change its mind?

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Osama declared war on the US. It was ongoing according to him. 9/11 was part of his strategy. Why wouldn't he lie about it?

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Like I said, Osama declared war on the US and had carried out a series of attacks, all in an attempt to get the US to notice he was at war with them. With 9/11, the US noticed, so there was no need for him to claim responsibility.

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Is this an Islamic principle? It didn't stop him declaring war did it? Nor did the Taliban feel obligued to kick him out.

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Sure, but I am also sure that like you, he had an excuse for every evil thing done by Muslims. You hardly inspire confidence with your excuses.

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Who says he disobeyed? You are having trouble getting your head around the concept of 'lying about your military strategy' aren't you Falah?

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You just told us why.

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I thought it was only an Islamic sin to kill the 'innocent' (and Islam even stretches the emaning of innocent doesnt it)? Were the 500 Jews slaughtered by Muhammed in Medina all combatants? You yourself outlined plans to kill a lot of Australians, Americans, British, Iranian etc people. None of the examples you gave were combatants. Why do you seem to change your mind about what Islam permits? How are the people in the twin towers any less guilty than the 500 Jews in Medina?

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Bin Laden was the leader. Khalid was the 'architect' of the attacks. Someone else lead them into 'battle'. Khalid also headed up AQ's propaganda operations (so funny you should bring him up in this context). A bit like Hitler and Goering perhaps. Surely this is not too confusing a concept?

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Who says they changed their mind? Only you.

Pilgrimages have started to bin laden's burial site.

Falah, Abu I have a mate who has a boat I can get him to drop you off if you like.

[media]C:\Users\user\Desktop\guided tours.jpg[media

freediver wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 7:06pm:

Untermentch = kaffir/dhimmi???


Is it really true???? Am I, a blond and blue eyed aryan an untermentch, a mere kaffir or dhimmi to Muslims?

Gandy, is this true? Really??

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Sounds it a bit like those racist anti-Islam protestors with the tinted speaker that you were banging on about.

Worse than Nazism.

What is th difference between nazism and islam?

Totalitarianism is a political doctrine that seeks to control all aspects of a society, its economy, its laws and government, its culture.


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There is no difference

freediver wrote on Aug 29^th, 2020 at 8:26am:

It is valid.

Culture trumps politics. Islam's totalitarian cultural outlook is like every other totalitarian culture's outlook. There is no significant cultural difference between fascism, stalinism, the muslim caliphate, maoism and the rest even if their politics (the daily grind of particular place and time) may vary here and there a bit.

islam has decrees and physical punishments for breaking said edicts.

My understanding is that Christianity has decrees with no physical punishments for transgressing said rules.

I thought that Christians are to repent and seek forgiveness for their sins through faith in Christ.

islam ===== beheading, stoning, amputating limbs, honour killing etc. all to the honour and glory of allah.

Christianity ===== repentance, faith in the grace of God.

The two beliefs are the antithesis of each other.

Why do the loony leftards seek to muddy the waters, when it comes exposing the filth and depravity of islam?

moses wrote on Aug 29^th, 2020 at 5:37pm:


Tell that to the millions that Christians have punished for believing is something slightly different to what the mainstream believed, Moses.  You know, the hundreds of thousands of women declared to be, "witches"?  The millions of those declared to be heretics.  All punished physically by Christians who declared them well, to be, "heretics".

Doctrinaire Islam has edicts.  So do does doctrinaire Christianity.  The two are directly comparable.   

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The two beliefs are founded on the one religion, Moses.  Christianity, Islam are both developments of Judaism.  Tsk, tsk.   

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Why don't you recognise that you cannot claim your religion is somehow superior when the evidence demonstrates otherwise, Moses?  Mmm?   

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2020 at 8:58pm:

How is that a valid argument?

Aztecs belived human sacrifice to be a good thing. Are you suspending judgement because you are not an Aztec???

Brian why do you think it is a logical fallacy to compare Islam and Nazism?

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2020 at 11:46pm:


The Bandwagon Fallacy
Just because a significant population of people believe a proposition is true, doesn't automatically make it true. Popularity alone is not enough to validate an argument, though it's often used as a standalone justification of validity.

Also known as...

Argumentum ad populum

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You make so many claims about Islam - most of which depend upon certain translations and interpretations which of course paint the religion in the worst light possible.  Why do so few Muslims actually follow this supposed duty that you claim exists, Moses?  I wonder if they learn a different Islam to the one you preach?  You'd make a wonderful recruiter for Daesh.  Tsk, tsk.   

It's all there, as the proof that islam is a reinvented pagan moon god worshiping entity of pure evil.

Moon god worshipers, who have a cult of committing  human rights atrocities against non moon god worshipers, as their core values.

It's all there, as the proof that Christianity is a reinvented pagan moon god worshiping entity of pure evil.

Moon god worshipers, who have a cult of committing  human rights atrocities against non moon god worshipers, as their core values.   

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2020 at 6:29pm:


Are you aware that you just compared them? Were you being illogical?

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2020 at 6:30pm:

Bwian is stumped once again. Where's the yawn?

muslim terrorists all proudly proclaim their love of allah, they all state that their obedience to the qur'an is the cause and motivation of all the human rights atrocities committed by muslim extremists.

The qur'an is the cause and motivation for islamic terrorism.

Every single muslim on this planet reveres and worships the qur'an as being the infallible words of allah and unchangeable.

By definition every single muslim that supports and reveres the qur'an as it now stands, reveres and supports the human rights atrocities engendered.

All muslims are guilty, until one of them has the courage to question, denounce and purge, the innumerable verses which cause and motivate islamic terrorism.

Right now all muslims are guilty, the perpetrators who are the highest grade of muslim and the second grade *moderate* supporters.

The rapes torturing and mass slaughter, will always be part of islam, until the muslims themselves query, denunciate and purge the innumerable verses of evil in the qur'an.

Truthful questioning and purging is the answer to the problem the world faces.

Guns bombs and bullets are not the answer.

Telling the truth about allah, muhammad and the qur'an, is all that's needed.

Frank wrote on Aug 31^st, 2020 at 4:54pm:


Really?  How many is it, Soren?  5% 10% 20% 30% 50%?  Do you really believe a majority of Muslims are Terrorists?  Really?   

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 31^st, 2020 at 2:53pm:




brian,

The ISLAM that is revealed within the Koran [and also within the Hadith], but especially within the HOLY Koran, calls for the enslavement or murder of all non-moslems.


NOW;
If a 'moderate' moslem declares to us;



....then isn't that person also declaring that   he   is a supporter of ISLAM, and that   he   is a supporter of what ISLAM promotes in the world ?

i.e.
The enslavement or murder of all non-moslems.



OR, is it your argument;

That many moslems may insist that they are followers of ISLAM [i.e. a moslem],
BUT,
that moslems are unaware, that   primary   ISLAMIC precepts, call on moslems to prepare for warfare, and then engage in warfare, against anyone who denies the PRIMACY of ISLAMIC law ???

i.e.
ALL MOSLEMS, are followers, of ISLAM.

freediver wrote on Aug 31^st, 2020 at 5:39pm:


Answer my questions, FD and I might answer yours...   

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 31^st, 2020 at 8:17pm:


You're not sure what I'm talking about, are you Brian?

Frank wrote on Aug 31^st, 2020 at 9:18pm:


So, then, Soren, what is your opinion of Christians who don't attend Church, don't go to Mass, use contraceptives, don't give Tithes, etc.?  Are they being bad Christians or are they "lying doggo", seeing who will be victorious, hey?  Tsk, tsk, you really do have a twisted mind, mate.  Watch out, your head will disappear up your own arse...   

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2022 at 12:51pm:


More than you, Nazi.  I also checked arrest records.  Most Aussie Muslims have not been imprisoned for killing gays or apostates.  Neither have Christian Sydney cops, but for different reasons

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2022 at 12:57pm:


christians are historically the killers of Jews.  Hitler made that unthinkable so now you hate Muslims. but it's the same thing

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:


You never read or respond to what I write.  I simply create a foil for your racist rantings.

So screw it

What's your favourite ice cream? I like rocky road.  I assume you like vanilla b/c it's white?

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:


I'm guessing more than you spoke to in order to "know" that precisely 100% of the world's 2 billion muslims support genocide.

You really do walk right into these things FD.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2022 at 1:07pm:



What you need to ask and clear up first is:

1. Did Mohammed and his Koran and hadiths support and model the practice genocide of the Jews and assorted other infidels?

Then you ask:

2. Do Muslim take Mohammed, the Koran and hadiths seriously - unalterable word of Allah and all that?

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It was your inability to find a single Muslim who disagrees, despite 70 pages of your tapdancing, that was the clincher.

Have you ever met a Muslim who does not support genocide?

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No.

You could always try letting her speak for herself.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2022 at 1:58pm:


It's the exact opposite Gandalf. Do you really not understand what the term means? It was you who was, quite literally, demanding I prove a negative, oblivious to the absurdity of your demands, even as you detailed them in all their absurdity.

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That not a single Muslim opposes genocide. You literally demanded that I can only say this if I somehow poll every single Muslim on earth.

You job to counter this on the other hand is pretty much the opposite. You only have to find one Muslim who opposes genocide. Your inability to do so has nothing to do with logical fallacies. Rather, it stems from the fact that all Muslims support genocide.

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:29am:


The 'prove a negative' fallacy is only used after an unsubstantiated claim is made in the first place. You came up with the claim in question - not me (all muslims support genocide) - and then essentially came back and said "prove it isn't true" (find me a muslim who doesn't support it) when I dared ask for evidence.

You are literally saying that asking for proof for a claim that so desperately needs proof (all muslims support genocide) - is a fallacy. Go figure.

Imagine if I said "all jews support genocide" - based solely on what their prophets did to the Canaanites. In response you (rightly) demand proof for such an outrageous claim - which inescapably can only be done by collecting evidence of what every single jew on earth thinks on the matter. Would it be reasonable to you if I turned around and said "oh, in other words, you want me to prove that not a single jew opposes it - thats a fallacy innit!"

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Yes I did FD - and that is absolutely 100% true. Can you explain how else you can "prove" what 100% of the entire muslim population thinks? Take your time.