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Poll Poll
Question: Should taxpayers money pay for private education ?

Yes    
  11 (35.5%)
No    
  20 (64.5%)




Total votes: 31
« Created by: Sir lastnail on: May 7th, 2012 at 11:47am »

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Should taxpayer pay for private education? (Read 18379 times)
freediver
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #105 - May 8th, 2012 at 8:18pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 12:42pm:
How does saving money mean better education?


Because it means that we get more value for the amount we spend. It means that both public and private school students get a better education out of the amount of money spent by the government. This is true regardless of how much money the government actually spends. It is illogical to link the public/private debate with the broader debate on how much should be spent on education.

Quote:
The access to an equitable education is a Right that was hard fought for by the common man but it is also a responsibility to nurture it and respect it as the greatest tool to true Liberty. Not to be elitist for the rich and not to be hijacked by the oxygen thieves.


Subsidised private education does not bar students from access to an equitable education. It enables it. You would have all students have a worse education just so it is fair because they are all the same. It's no different to arguing that communism is better because everyone is equally poor.

Quote:
The rich should get a tax rebate for not sending their kids to a public school.

However the private schools should not get any Govt. help.

That's a fairer system.


Just like the current one, except more paperwork.

Quote:
Dr Maria Montessori would totally disagree with you.


Has she actually tested her theory rigorously? Do you realise she has an enourmous financial interest in promoting her stance? Plenty of scientists have actually checked the results, and found her to be wrong.
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2012 at 8:24pm by freediver »  

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hawil
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #106 - May 8th, 2012 at 8:29pm
 
freediver wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 12:42pm:
How does saving money mean better education?


Because it means that we get more value for the amount we spend. It means that both public and private school students get a better education out of the amount of money spent by the government. This is true regardless of how much money the government actually spends. It is illogical to link the public/private debate with the broader debate on how much should be spent on education.

Private education system is mainly practised in english speaking countries, compared to other European countries.
I cannot speak for Asian countries, because I do not know their system.
What the private system supports is elitism, because often job applicants from public school system have little chance to get jobs in higher paid jobs.
My own children, who were both educated in the public system can vouch for that, yet now they are using the private system to educate their own children, to give them a better chance in life, yet at considerable cost and effort.
The irony of all this is, that the students in the European countries with little or no private school systems perform as well or better than students from the dual system.
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freediver
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #107 - May 8th, 2012 at 8:32pm
 
hawil wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 8:29pm:
freediver wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 12:42pm:
How does saving money mean better education?


Because it means that we get more value for the amount we spend. It means that both public and private school students get a better education out of the amount of money spent by the government. This is true regardless of how much money the government actually spends. It is illogical to link the public/private debate with the broader debate on how much should be spent on education.

Private education system is mainly practised in english speaking countries, compared to other European countries.
I cannot speak for Asian countries, because I do not know their system.
What the private system supports is elitism, because often job applicants from public school system have little chance to get jobs in higher paid jobs.
My own children, who were both educated in the public system can vouch for that, yet now they are using the private system to educate their own children, to give them a better chance in life, yet at considerable cost and effort.
The irony of all this is, that the students in the European countries with little or no private school systems perform as well or better than students from the dual system.


You are confusing two separate issues. The value placed on education, and the total amount spent, are separate issues to the private/public debate. Subsidised private schools improve the education for all students, regardless of the total amount spent by the government. It is effectively an extra education tax on the rich that allows the rich to put more money into both public and private education, for the benefit of all.
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beer
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #108 - May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm
 
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #109 - May 8th, 2012 at 11:10pm
 
beer wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.


how is it fair when the scammers who run private schools have already collected money from their customers ??

why do they need more money from the government ??

sounds like an inequitable situation to me.

private should mean private and not being topped up by the government Sad
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beer
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #110 - May 8th, 2012 at 11:39pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:10pm:
beer wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.


how is it fair when the scammers who run private schools have already collected money from their customers ??

why do they need more money from the government ??

sounds like an inequitable situation to me.

private should mean private and not being topped up by the government Sad


That's because you haven't deeply think about this issue.

1. Should you allow somebody be HIGHER class than others in this country? If people should have equal right, especially for innocent children. They should be treated very equally by the society include government. In this case, children should receive their benefit regardless of their backgrounds. That's how you teach them and grow them in right way.

2. Government shouldn't be granted too much power to decide how to spend money, especially how to distribute money in different channels. Their authority should be limited to stop politicians to transfer benefits to particular groups. In this two-party system, most time, only a few percent of votes, say <5% decides who wins the parliament. That's why politicians keeping send money into those 5% of minor groups and damage the interest of all others.

3. Government income from personal income has already been classified into different percentages. When they spend out money, why should they classify people again based on their backgrounds? This is double tax, double standards. Where is fairness? Without fair play, market is distorted in long run. Lazy people relays on politics framework to earn money they wouldn't be able to earn anywhere in the world. Rich or smart people move away from this country. Finally this country becomes another Greece.
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2012 at 11:44pm by beer »  
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #111 - May 8th, 2012 at 11:45pm
 
Quote:
This is double tax, double standards. Where is fairness?



The well off do pay twice:
They pay tax for schools &
they pay school fees.


However the Govt. gives some of it back when it
supports private schools.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #112 - May 8th, 2012 at 11:48pm
 
freediver wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
Has she actually tested her theory rigorously? Do you realise she has an enourmous financial interest in promoting her stance? Plenty of scientists have actually checked the results, and found her to be wrong.


Yes it's been tested and it works whereas your play based system is equivalent to brain damage for children !!

How do you account for Australia's poor education standards compared to other countries ??

Kids get taught play based system in childcare and when they are older guess what ? They are still playing and there are communities full of feral children still playing and not learning anything !!

The results speak for themselves. Australia is no 35 ranked in the world when it comes to education standards Sad

play based is the go Smiley LOL




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beer
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #113 - May 9th, 2012 at 12:05am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:48pm:
freediver wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 8:18pm:
Has she actually tested her theory rigorously? Do you realise she has an enourmous financial interest in promoting her stance? Plenty of scientists have actually checked the results, and found her to be wrong.


Yes it's been tested and it works whereas your play based system is equivalent to brain damage for children !!

How do you account for Australia's poor education standards compared to other countries ??

Kids get taught play based system in childcare and when they are older guess what ? They are still playing and there are communities full of feral children still playing and not learning anything !!

The results speak for themselves. Australia is no 35 ranked in the world when it comes to education standards Sad

play based is the go Smiley LOL






Agree this.

In other country, tax office gives a formula to help people to calculate their tax. Each year, they need only 1 person to adjust 1 factor there in the formula, maybe spend 1 hour.

Here, Tax office gives many examples, at which amount, how much is calculated payable. They hire 10 people to work out all the possible values and make a very long list to cover every thing. Takes weeks.

So jobs are created.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #114 - May 9th, 2012 at 8:18am
 
beer wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.


Thats not fair. I pay tax so I want my kid in a private school. Why should i be regulated to a public school if I dont have the fees?

SOB
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freediver
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #115 - May 9th, 2012 at 8:22am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:10pm:
beer wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.


how is it fair when the scammers who run private schools have already collected money from their customers ??

why do they need more money from the government ??

sounds like an inequitable situation to me.

private should mean private and not being topped up by the government Sad


It's fair because it is what is wanted by all the parties involved. What would be unfair is to deny them this choice out of envy and ignorance and make all children suffer to satisfy the definition of private.

Quote:
Yes it's been tested and it works


Don't be so naive. Anything can be shown to 'work' if you put the goal posts right in front of it and push it hard enough.

Quote:
Why should i be regulated to a public school if I dont have the fees?


The same reason you are 'regulated' to a holden or ford. Because you are poor, and because that is the standard society has set.

Do you realise that by demanding more you would actually end up with less? Just like in communism.
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« Last Edit: May 9th, 2012 at 8:28am by freediver »  

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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #116 - May 9th, 2012 at 8:35am
 
Quote:
The same reason you are 'regulated' to a holden or ford. Because you are poor, and because that is the standard society has set.

Do you realise that by demanding more you would actually end up with less? Just like in communism.


Then its only fair that the rich cant demand more either. They cant have both. Public funding is for public schools. Communism has nothing to do with it.

SOB
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freediver
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #117 - May 9th, 2012 at 8:46am
 
Once again we are back to pure ideology and rejection of reality. Cutting funds from public schools would make all children worse off - both public and private. Why are you incapable of even acknowledging this point, let alone trying to argue against it? Do you really not care about our children's education? Do you really want to make everyone worse off to satisfy your dogma? We are ten pages into this thread and you still haven't even realised what people are telling you.
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #118 - May 9th, 2012 at 9:26am
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 8:46am:
Once again we are back to pure ideology and rejection of reality. Cutting funds from public schools would make all children worse off - both public and private. Why are you incapable of even acknowledging this point, let alone trying to argue against it? Do you really not care about our children's education? Do you really want to make everyone worse off to satisfy your dogma? We are ten pages into this thread and you still haven't even realised what people are telling you.


Not people. You. And I acknowledged it pages ago. I just disagree. You can look it up if you missed it. Why do you keep saying I say things I dont and saying I dont say things i do?

you are the one that worries about money instead of children it seems.

SOB
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #119 - May 9th, 2012 at 11:28am
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 8:22am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:10pm:
beer wrote on May 8th, 2012 at 11:02pm:
Basically, Aussies don't really understand what fairness is. They silently accept all kinds of unfair things, this is only one example.

Every child deserves education payment from government, both poor and rich children. So government should pay equal amount of money per head into public and private school. That's fair.


how is it fair when the scammers who run private schools have already collected money from their customers ??

why do they need more money from the government ??

sounds like an inequitable situation to me.

private should mean private and not being topped up by the government Sad


It's fair because it is what is wanted by all the parties involved. What would be unfair is to deny them this choice out of envy and ignorance and make all children suffer to satisfy the definition of private.

Quote:
Yes it's been tested and it works


Don't be so naive. Anything can be shown to 'work' if you put the goal posts right in front of it and push it hard enough.


Go and check out the current crop of scammers running child care centers here. There is no proper learning programs because it is played based bullshit. The kids are restless and irritable because there is nothing to grab and hold their attention. The proprietors who run these joints are in it for the money and nothing else, for the same reason scammers run private schools and hold there hand out for yet more government money  !!

Wake up will you. The system doesn't work here that is why kids have numeracy and literacy problems.

Look at the publicly run Finnish education system and stop making excuses for the scammers here !!
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