Australian Politics Forum - Should taxpayer pay for private education?

Sir lastnail

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #90 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:23pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

No.
It's about running a two tier system.

I pay taxes.
My children should therefore receive the same level of funding as any other child.

In addition to that I am free to spend money on school fees to ensure they get additional quality of schooling again to give them a headstart on those who don't pay.

I have no doubt my exam results are a damn sight better than kids in my district who didn't go to private school purely because my school was better.

That's what its all about.
Gaining advantage.

Look at the publicly funded Finnish education system. It runs rings around your best elitist private schools ! How come ?

You fail to understand that education is a right not a privilege. Your idea of education is that people who can't afford it will be left behind and the social system will then pick up the tab. In the end we pay more for an elitist education system where the user pays.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #91 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:32am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:27am:

Big Donger wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 8:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 2:09pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Private schools are private schools. Privately owned and privately run. In a capitalist society why should the govt be involved @ all?

SOB

If you are going to fund education you give the same amount per pupil irrelevant of the type of school.
It's only fair.

Sounds like the politics of envy to me, Andrei.

I can't speak from the perspective of someone who went to a Government school because I didn't but for my mind a lot of the rhetoric from those who did seems they carry a chip on the shoulder the size of a elephant about private v public education.

It's a case of "I couldn't go to private school so I will hate anything about them because its not fair..."

All I am saying is that the Government should fund all schools equally and then the private schools get the additional funding from fees as well.

That's the whole point of the fees.
To ensure your child has a better education than the public school kids - otherwise whats the point in paying?

If ppl want to go to public funded schools and have an "equal share" of the education funding they can go to public schools. Nobody is stopping them.]

Private schools are private enterprises and shouldn't be funded by the govt. Thats why they are called "private".

SOB

but your belief will end up costing the govt MORE while reducing education al outcomes. How is that clever or wise? and they arent 'private enterprise' tey are non-profits and the difference is significant not the least being that NO ONE makes any money out of it.

They believe it in Finland and the results speak for themselves.

I assume the teachers get paid in those private schools do they ?? Non profit !! Do you really believe that sh.t ??

Church institutions don't get involved in anything unless they can make a buck out of it.

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freediver

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #92 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:30pm

Looks like SOB has given up on rational argument again and is back to arguing that government policy on education funding should be dictated by the definition of the terms public and private, rather than what is in the best interests of our children.

Trying to sit 3 year olds in a chair all day to learn to read and write is a really bad idea. There is more to education than learning to spell. It has been fairly clearly demonstrated that these 'early intervention' efforts give a limited academic benefit in the first year or so of primary school but disappears soon after. You basically break the child's spirit for no real academic benefit and potential significant harm to the child's physical and social development.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #93 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:33pm

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:30pm:

Looks like SOB has given up on rational argument again and is back to arguing that government policy on education funding should be dictated by the definition of the terms public and private, rather than what is in the best interests of our children.

What is your obsession with me? There are plenty of others in this thread that also disagree with your opinions. Wait a minute. Where was I even talking to you? Is it right for an admin to use so many socks? Is this forum just you?

SOB

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longweekend58

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #94 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:35pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:32am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:27am:

Big Donger wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 8:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 2:09pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Private schools are private schools. Privately owned and privately run. In a capitalist society why should the govt be involved @ all?

SOB

If you are going to fund education you give the same amount per pupil irrelevant of the type of school.
It's only fair.

Sounds like the politics of envy to me, Andrei.

I can't speak from the perspective of someone who went to a Government school because I didn't but for my mind a lot of the rhetoric from those who did seems they carry a chip on the shoulder the size of a elephant about private v public education.

It's a case of "I couldn't go to private school so I will hate anything about them because its not fair..."

All I am saying is that the Government should fund all schools equally and then the private schools get the additional funding from fees as well.

That's the whole point of the fees.
To ensure your child has a better education than the public school kids - otherwise whats the point in paying?

If ppl want to go to public funded schools and have an "equal share" of the education funding they can go to public schools. Nobody is stopping them.]

Private schools are private enterprises and shouldn't be funded by the govt. Thats why they are called "private".

SOB

but your belief will end up costing the govt MORE while reducing education al outcomes. How is that clever or wise? and they arent 'private enterprise' tey are non-profits and the difference is significant not the least being that NO ONE makes any money out of it.

Who cares how much it costs to do it right? Its not like we are broke or anything. Think of the children.

Is your belief that religious schools are better based on fact or just prejudice?

SOB

your ideology-at-all-costs bent is showing. how is it 'doing it right' to pay a lot more to get a worse outcome?

but good to see you bring out that rather lame question as to outcomes. 2/3 university graduates are private schooled. the most successful business and community leaders are private school educated. and on and on it goes.

Gillard and Swan went to public schools.

QED

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freediver

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #95 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:37pm

You keep trying to steer this argument back to rediculous politics of envy BS. Do you really expect people to argue with you ab out the definition of private education as if it matters to how we should educate our chilkdren most effectively? How does 'private means private' even approach a rational argument. It's like you want to avoid yourself or other people discussing the reality of the situation at all costs.

Education costs money. Private education saves the government money. This means a better education for everyone. Understand?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #96 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:32am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:27am:

Big Donger wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 8:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 2:09pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Private schools are private schools. Privately owned and privately run. In a capitalist society why should the govt be involved @ all?

SOB

If you are going to fund education you give the same amount per pupil irrelevant of the type of school.
It's only fair.

Sounds like the politics of envy to me, Andrei.

I can't speak from the perspective of someone who went to a Government school because I didn't but for my mind a lot of the rhetoric from those who did seems they carry a chip on the shoulder the size of a elephant about private v public education.

It's a case of "I couldn't go to private school so I will hate anything about them because its not fair..."

All I am saying is that the Government should fund all schools equally and then the private schools get the additional funding from fees as well.

That's the whole point of the fees.
To ensure your child has a better education than the public school kids - otherwise whats the point in paying?

If ppl want to go to public funded schools and have an "equal share" of the education funding they can go to public schools. Nobody is stopping them.]

Private schools are private enterprises and shouldn't be funded by the govt. Thats why they are called "private".

SOB

but your belief will end up costing the govt MORE while reducing education al outcomes. How is that clever or wise? and they arent 'private enterprise' tey are non-profits and the difference is significant not the least being that NO ONE makes any money out of it.

Who cares how much it costs to do it right? Its not like we are broke or anything. Think of the children.

Is your belief that religious schools are better based on fact or just prejudice?

SOB

your ideology-at-all-costs bent is showing. how is it 'doing it right' to pay a lot more to get a worse outcome?

but good to see you bring out that rather lame question as to outcomes. 2/3 university graduates are private schooled. the most successful business and community leaders are private school educated. and on and on it goes.

Gillard and Swan went to public schools.

QED

Gillard isnt stupid. Look where she is.

Religious schools teach religion. That is not useful education imo. If you want to pay extra to have your child educated with extra religion thats your choice.

I dont know what ideology you are talking about. Public schools educate children just fine.

Since you keep mentioning "beliefs" and "ideologies" i take it you are trying to troll me and piss me off by implying I am religious now? Are you freediver again?

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #97 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:42pm

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

You keep trying to steer this argument back to rediculous politics of envy BS. Do you really expect people to argue with you ab out the definition of private education as if it matters to how we should educate our chilkdren most effectively? How does 'private means private' even approach a rational argument. It's like you want to avoid yourself or other people discussing the reality of the situation at all costs.

Education costs money. Private education saves the government money. This means a better education for everyone. Understand?

How does saving money mean better education?

And my argument was with somebody that said they were entitled to collect public education benefits while going private. My suggestion was to go to a public school.

SOB

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bludger Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 314 Gender:	Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education? Reply #98 - May 8^th, 2012 at 12:48pm Well as I pay for private kids to go to private schools The rich can pay the same amount to send mine there.
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locutius

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #99 - May 8^th, 2012 at 2:05pm

Get rid of private schools completely is my feeling. I am not interested is sponsoring breeding grounds for elitism.

One equitable standard of education nationwide.

By the same token bring back child labour for the urchin trouble makers and bullies. If they don't want to be educated fine, but they will discover that being a burden to the system is not an option either.

Quote:

Art thou one ENTITLED to escape from a yoke? Many a one hath cast away his final worth when he hath cast away his servitude.

Friedrich Nietzsche

The access to an equitable education is a Right that was hard fought for by the common man but it is also a responsibility to nurture it and respect it as the greatest tool to true Liberty. Not to be elitist for the rich and not to be hijacked by the oxygen thieves.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120089 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education? Reply #100 - May 8^th, 2012 at 4:16pm The rich should get a tax rebate for not sending their kids to a public school. However the private schools should not get any Govt. help. That's a fairer system.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #101 - May 8^th, 2012 at 4:19pm

freediver wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:30pm:

Looks like SOB has given up on rational argument again and is back to arguing that government policy on education funding should be dictated by the definition of the terms public and private, rather than what is in the best interests of our children.

Trying to sit 3 year olds in a chair all day to learn to read and write is a really bad idea. There is more to education than learning to spell. It has been fairly clearly demonstrated that these 'early intervention' efforts give a limited academic benefit in the first year or so of primary school but disappears soon after. You basically break the child's spirit for no real academic benefit and potential significant harm to the child's physical and social development.

That is absolute bullshit.

Dr Maria Montessori would totally disagree with you.

Quote:

Neuroscientist explains how to stimulate young brains

EMMA ALBERICI, PRESENTER: Educational engagement with children in those first years pays off according to one of the world's leading neurologists, Dr Judy Willis. Dr Willis is a scientist and former teacher who has written six books about applying the mind, the brain and educational research in the classroom. Dr Willis joined us from Santa Barbara.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3482571.htm

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #102 - May 8^th, 2012 at 4:23pm

locutius wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

Get rid of private schools completely is my feeling. I am not interested is sponsoring breeding grounds for elitism.

One equitable standard of education nationwide.

By the same token bring back child labour for the urchin trouble makers and bullies. If they don't want to be educated fine, but they will discover that being a burden to the system is not an option either.

Quote:

Art thou one ENTITLED to escape from a yoke? Many a one hath cast away his final worth when he hath cast away his servitude.

Friedrich Nietzsche

The access to an equitable education is a Right that was hard fought for by the common man but it is also a responsibility to nurture it and respect it as the greatest tool to true Liberty. Not to be elitist for the rich and not to be hijacked by the oxygen thieves.

Who are the oxygen thieves?

SOB

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I'm a
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #103 - May 8^th, 2012 at 4:24pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

your ideology-at-all-costs bent is showing. how is it 'doing it right' to pay a lot more to get a worse outcome?

but good to see you bring out that rather lame question as to outcomes. 2/3 university graduates are private schooled. the most successful business and community leaders are private school educated. and on and on it goes.

Gillard and Swan went to public schools.

QED

so the 1/3 that are public school educated are failures are they ??

and yet the publicly run Finnish education system runs rings around the elitist private rubbish you keep promoting !!

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locutius

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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #104 - May 8^th, 2012 at 8:04pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:

locutius wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

Get rid of private schools completely is my feeling. I am not interested is sponsoring breeding grounds for elitism.

One equitable standard of education nationwide.

By the same token bring back child labour for the urchin trouble makers and bullies. If they don't want to be educated fine, but they will discover that being a burden to the system is not an option either.

Quote:

Art thou one ENTITLED to escape from a yoke? Many a one hath cast away his final worth when he hath cast away his servitude.

Friedrich Nietzsche

The access to an equitable education is a Right that was hard fought for by the common man but it is also a responsibility to nurture it and respect it as the greatest tool to true Liberty. Not to be elitist for the rich and not to be hijacked by the oxygen thieves.

Who are the oxygen thieves?

SOB

The seat wasters that use up resources. Speak to almost and teacher and you'll find them in despair for the kids that want to learn but 70% of the teachers' energy is taken up by 10% of the trash.

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Poll
Question: Should taxpayers money pay for private education ?
Yes 11 (35.5%) No 20 (64.5%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Sir lastnail on: May 7^th, 2012 at 11:47am »