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Anzac Day (Read 5016 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #30 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:21pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:15pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:12pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:10pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:07pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:05pm:
PZ547 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:57pm:
And the US is vassal state to which entity ?  And quite open about it

Exactly
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:00pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:55pm:
But only because the US says so.

"We were only following orders" ??

That would be no defence in any court of law for any other crime (international or domestic).
When did I say it was.
You really do not make much sense.

Then you'll have clarify "But only because the US says so."


It was in response to:
Quote:
I'm saying that if the US invaded Papua New Guinea it would be endorsed and supported by Australia.

Meaning we would be ordered by our overlords to endorse and support the action?

In a way yes

So we'd "only be following orders" ?
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bobbythefap1
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #31 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:23pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:21pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:15pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:12pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:10pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:07pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:05pm:
PZ547 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:57pm:
And the US is vassal state to which entity ?  And quite open about it

Exactly
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:00pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:55pm:
But only because the US says so.

"We were only following orders" ??

That would be no defence in any court of law for any other crime (international or domestic).
When did I say it was.
You really do not make much sense.

Then you'll have clarify "But only because the US says so."


It was in response to:
Quote:
I'm saying that if the US invaded Papua New Guinea it would be endorsed and supported by Australia.

Meaning we would be ordered by our overlords to endorse and support the action?

In a way yes

So we'd "only be following orders" ?
Yes, and your point?
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #32 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:23pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:21pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:15pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:12pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:10pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:07pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:05pm:
PZ547 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:57pm:
And the US is vassal state to which entity ?  And quite open about it

Exactly
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:00pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:55pm:
But only because the US says so.

"We were only following orders" ??

That would be no defence in any court of law for any other crime (international or domestic).
When did I say it was.
You really do not make much sense.

Then you'll have clarify "But only because the US says so."


It was in response to:
Quote:
I'm saying that if the US invaded Papua New Guinea it would be endorsed and supported by Australia.

Meaning we would be ordered by our overlords to endorse and support the action?

In a way yes

So we'd "only be following orders" ?
Yes, and your point?

I think you're agreeing with me!!

We (the people) are responsible for our own actions... Blind endorsement of our overlord's actions are the actions of a slavish people who should not expect exoneration, via diminished responsibility, arising from our innate need to be led.
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #33 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:40pm
 
The USA is totally different to Australia for military action?

Australis was not in Somalia?
Australia was not in Bosnia or Kosovo?
Australia is not in Central America?

Australia is not involved in Israel-Palestinian disputes?

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bobbythefap1
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #34 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:42pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:23pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:21pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:15pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:12pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:10pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:07pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:05pm:
PZ547 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:57pm:
And the US is vassal state to which entity ?  And quite open about it

Exactly
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:00pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:55pm:
But only because the US says so.

"We were only following orders" ??

That would be no defence in any court of law for any other crime (international or domestic).
When did I say it was.
You really do not make much sense.

Then you'll have clarify "But only because the US says so."


It was in response to:
Quote:
I'm saying that if the US invaded Papua New Guinea it would be endorsed and supported by Australia.

Meaning we would be ordered by our overlords to endorse and support the action?

In a way yes

So we'd "only be following orders" ?
Yes, and your point?

I think you're agreeing with me!!

We (the people) are responsible for our own actions... Blind endorsement of our overlord's actions are the actions of a slavish people who should not expect exoneration via diminished responsibility due to our innate need to be led.
I think you will find I never disagreed that we are taking orders from the US.

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #35 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:45pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 2:40pm:
The USA is totally different to Australia for military action?

Australis was not in Somalia?
Australia was not in Bosnia or Kosovo?
Australia is not in Central America?

Australia is not involved in Israel-Palestinian disputes?


we were never requested to be involved. Modern European conflicts are managed by NATO. The US manages South American conflicts alone. Somalia was a mistake for which the US anticipated humanitarian kudos... It didn't receive any.

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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #36 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:03pm
 
I will enjoy the service I am sure.

I am interested to see the different style in compared to services of rememberance I have attended in previous years.

Your secular comment is interesting.

Why do you believe Australia is so more secular than other countries of similar people?
Is it because it is other side of the world to every one else and away from it?

I agree that it is but I wonder why?
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #37 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:28pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:03pm:
I will enjoy the service I am sure.

I am interested to see the different style in compared to services of rememberance I have attended in previous years.

Your secular comment is interesting.

Why do you believe Australia is so more secular than other countries of similar people?
Is it because it is other side of the world to every one else and away from it?

I agree that it is but I wonder why?

From what foreigners have told me of their experience of ANZAC Day, non Australians also believe this day to be special and unique. There is a genuine sense of respect, not just for Australia's military contributions around the world (focussing on Gallipoli), but also a palpable awareness of the fragility of peace. There is also a genuine atmosphere of goodwill. It is well worth you attending the Dawn Service to get a true sense of the reverence Australians have for the day.

Do I really think Australia is more secular than other countries? Well, I think I am being a bit parochial on that point... Which is not to say I don't think Australia is (at least one of) the world's most secular nation/s.

The reason I believe it is secular, has a lot to do with our innate suspicion of authority (despite - and paradoxically notwithstanding - our innate need to be led by powerful nations) regardless of whether that authority is political or religious. I'd attribute that to Australia's Irish influence.

Most importantly though, ANZAC Day commemorates the nation's greatest founding myth. Our ANZAC soldiers now have the status similar in stature to ancient Greek heroes.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:35pm by NorthOfNorth »  

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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #38 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:36pm
 
I think you are correct on secular part of Australia.

I do not compare to my country because we are officially a Jewish state and allow any Jew to return so we are obvious unfair comparison.

But you has a Prime Minister who do not believe in any religion - this would never happen I do not think in the USA or some european country.
I definitely do not think would happen in Ireland.

So yes you are different.
I do not think is bad, I am secular too. I am a Jew who only observe some religious things etc but I am passion about the Jewish people though.

I like service to remember bravery of soldiers, it is very important.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #39 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:45pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:36pm:
But you has a Prime Minister who do not believe in any religion - this would never happen I do not think in the USA or some european country.
I definitely do not think would happen in Ireland.

So yes you are different.

yes, I think Australia will see more "out of the closet" atheist heads of government from now on.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:36pm:
I do not think is bad, I am secular too. I am a Jew who only observe some religious things etc but I am passion about the Jewish people though.

I like service to remember bravery of soldiers, it is very important.

I think you will appreciate the reciting of Kaddish at a Jewish memorial on ANZAC Day.
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #40 - Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:47pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 3:36pm:
I think you are correct on secular part of Australia.

I do not compare to my country because we are officially a Jewish state and allow any Jew to return so we are obvious unfair comparison.

But you has a Prime Minister who do not believe in any religion - this would never happen I do not think in the USA or some european country.
I definitely do not think would happen in Ireland.

So yes you are different.
I do not think is bad, I am secular too. I am a Jew who only observe some religious things etc but I am passion about the Jewish people though.

I like service to remember bravery of soldiers, it is very important.


Wow. An atheist. I didnt know that. But I heard her say some strange things . . . . why is she against gay marriage then? Since gays NOT getting married is an xtian thing?

SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #41 - Apr 23rd, 2012 at 10:19am
 
Seems we are going to label the ppl that "remember"

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8455628/new-pin-to-recognise-families-of-dig...

SOB
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chimera
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #42 - Apr 23rd, 2012 at 12:56pm
 
Israel is being intruded into this. The reason that Israel exists today is religion. Even secular Jews identify with the historical kingdoms which existed because of religion.
UK and US identify with the monarch of the Angicans , Defender of Faith, and In God We Trust.
Oz didn't declare any wars, even East Timor was set-up for us by US. We just supply men who are messed-up by pom and yank experts.
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Uncle Meat
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #43 - Apr 23rd, 2012 at 1:09pm
 
Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 22nd, 2012 at 1:34pm:
No one is coming to harm me, I feel quite safe, so no one is saving me from the big bad terrorists.



Exactly right.

Ironically though, our involvement in OS military action is doing nothing to protect us in the future.

And the money-hungry war machine continues to rev its engines ...   Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2012 at 1:20pm by Uncle Meat »  
 
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Re: Anzac Day
Reply #44 - Apr 23rd, 2012 at 2:59pm
 
Spot of Borg...In reply to your initial post; we pause for the Public Holiday to remember those that have paid the ultimate price for their Country.

If it wasn't for those kids on the Kokoda Track, you'd most probably be speaking Japanese or your great grandmother might have ended up on the wrong end of a Japanese bayonet.

So whilst the rest of the Nation takes pause, to thank the fallen for the ultimate price that they paid for our freedoms; perhaps you could do a bit of volunteer work in the local Hospital, to salve that terrible conscience you have, in having to take the day off.
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