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Da Vinci was a muslim... (Read 31289 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #75 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:41am
 
Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
The truth of it, of course, is that the Muslims cut off the West from its Greco-Roman heritage when  they overrun the Eastern Roman Empire.


This is nonsense. Muslim leaders sent massive delegations to the West to try and convince them not to destroy their books, and in fact many of the books that were kept in the great Islamic libraries were rescued from the Western nations that were destroying them.  How could Muslims have deprived the West of their knowledge, if it was in fact in currency amongst them? The fact is it wasn't, the only place it existed was locked away in a few archives. During the Christian era, the serfs were forbidden from attaining any kind of knowledge that might liberate them. That's why the Bible wasn't even allowed to be translated into their vernaculars until after the Christian decline was well in motion, lest they learn the truth of what was in it and abandon it.

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
The reality is that the Muslim rank with the Goths, the Huns and the other assorted barbarians who hastened the destruction of the civilisational inheritance from antiquity. They most certainly didn't 'pass on' anything.


This is just absolute garbage. Islamic civilisation bore the greatest brunt of the barbaric incursions. People like Sultan Sayf ud-Deen Qutuz literally saved the entire Western world from having to endure the full force of the Mongol hordes. And what thanks does he get? The site of the battleground (Ain Jaloot) at which he defeated that greatest of menaces is now an occupied rubbish dump, that no Muslim is allowed to enter. Defiled by the filthy boots of Zionist scum.

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
Very recently we saw in Afghanistan, with the destruction of the giant Buddha statues, what the Muslim attitude is to any preceding non-Muslim civilisation.


Yeh because the knowledge of civilisations is intrinsically linked to their statues/idols. Good one. You're really running out of things to say aren't you?

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
The truth about the Islamic interest in Greek and Roman books and knowledge is that they were interested only in technical knowledge.


What else is there? Certainly not all that crap about men molesting little boys?? This is what you call knowledge? Figures. You dirty mongrel.

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
You will not find any ancient poetry or political treatise or picaresque novel translated into Arabic during that supposed great Arab flowering.


The poetry part you might be right... given that most of it was just disgusting tales of faggotry against little boys as I mentioned above. The political works of the Greeks and even many of the philosophical works were indeed translated into Arabic. The fact you don't know this just casts more aspersions on the legitimacy of your claims.

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
In any case, all the translations - all - were done by converts, Jews and Christians who learned Arabic.


The translations were done by people who spoke both the source and target languages... duh.

Not too bright are you?

Also given the growth rate of Islam in the early days, just by pure statistics alone this is a given.

That's really irrelevant though. Muhammad (pbuh) himself had several of his close companions learn foreign languages for the purposes of translation. Clearly a skill that was valued by the early Muslims, and even today.

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
The real recovery of antiquity occurred when the refugees from the East arrived in the West, following the final conquest of Byzantium in 1453, and brought with them books and knowledge. That marks the beginning of what we call the Renaissance, the western recovery of the civilisational heritage of antiquity.


The fact is most of it came from further West, yes around the same time, during the "reconquista".

Soren wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 5:40pm:
Not coincidentally, it also marks the irreversible intellectual, artistic, political, economic and every other kind  decline of Islam. SO whatever they passed on to the west, they certainly did not make use of it themselves.


More delusional fantasies.

Islamic decline is quite obviously linked to the events of 1258, not 1453.
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abu_rashid  
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #76 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 12:45pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:41am:
. And what thanks does he get? The site of the battleground (Ain Jaloot) at which he defeated that greatest of menaces is now an occupied rubbish dump, that no Muslim is allowed to enter.
.



It is now Yizre'el

יִזְרְעֶאל


Named after the ancient city of Jezreel in the Kingdom of Israel.

This was captured by Israel in the 1948 war.
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chimera
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #77 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 2:38pm
 
Quote:

When people attain puberty and become "raashid" (aware and able to lead others), then they are considered an adult in Islam.  Having an intermediary stage between childhood and adulthood is not natural and it does not result in a healthy society.

We see this in the Muslim governments and populations which behave as hormonal children. The dogmatic violence in the Koran is adolescent, as in emotionally troubled.
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falah
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #78 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 2:47pm
 
chimera wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 2:38pm:
Quote:

When people attain puberty and become "raashid" (aware and able to lead others), then they are considered an adult in Islam.  Having an intermediary stage between childhood and adulthood is not natural and it does not result in a healthy society.



Catholic priests make no distinction. Every one is fair game for them.

'No Belgian church escaped sex abuse', finds investigation


"We are talking here about anal and oral abuse, forced and mutual masturbation," said Peter Adriaenssens, the psychiatric specialist in paedophilia who chaired the commission.

"None of us was prepared for the severity of some of the accounts of abuse that we were given. All of us at one time questioned our faith in God, the Church and humanity."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/7994705/No-Belgian-chur...




Quote:
* The priests almost exclusively enjoyed molesting pre-pubescent boys. Assaults on boys usually ended by their 15th year.

* Toddlers were considered ‘fair game’. Girls as young as two were raped.


* 13 known victims were so traumatised by their abuse they later committed suicide.

http://canterburyatheists.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/belgiums-catholic-church-exposed-as.html




Quote:
Child abuse widespread in Belgian Church - report



"Almost every institution, every school, particularly boarding schools, at one time harboured abuse," Peter Adriaenssens, the head of a Church commission monitoring complaints, told a news conference...

...The 475 cases it recorded included victims as young as two. Two-thirds were male and boys aged about 12 were particularly vulnerable...


The commission itself received the most complaints following the resignation of the bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, at the end of April.

The bishop admitted he had sexually abused a nephew, the first known case of high-level abuse in the Catholic Church in Belgium...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/09/10/uk-belgium-church-abuse-idUKTRE6893L120...
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freediver
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #79 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 3:12pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:25am:
Frances wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 1:58am:
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 20th, 2012 at 11:29pm:
a normal healthy marriage between adults (ie. people who've attained puberty)


Attaining puberty in itself doesn't make you an adult.  I mentioned earlier in this page the age at which girls reach puberty.  Are you trying to justify paedophilia?


When people attain puberty and become "raashid" (aware and able to lead others), then they are considered an adult in Islam. The West's concept of "adolescence" is nothing but a blight on society which leads to much of our ills. Having an intermediary stage between childhood and adulthood is not natural and it does not result in a healthy society.


What does 'Abu Rashid' mean?

Quote:
Yeh because the knowledge of civilisations is intrinsically linked to their statues/idols. Good one. You're really running out of things to say aren't you?


Abu, does it not matter to you at all that these great statues were destroyed out of ignorance?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #80 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 6:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 3:12pm:
What does 'Abu Rashid' mean?


Literally, father of the rightly guided.

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 3:12pm:
Abu, does it not matter to you at all that these great statues were destroyed out of ignorance?


They were destroyed to remove ignorance. What is more ignorant than worshipping a piece of rock that can avail you naught?

Please tell me what these pieces of rock offered to humanity?
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #81 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 7:49pm
 
A bit more humanity than Ka'aba.
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falah
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #82 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 8:09pm
 
chimera wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 7:49pm:
A bit more humanity than Ka'aba.


The Ka'bah is a temple not an idol. It was built by Prophet Abraham as the first temple dedicated to God.

Unlike the Buddha statue, it is not a worshipped idol.

...

...

...


It has been rebuilt a number of times over the millenia.

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chimera
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #83 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 8:32pm
 
An idol is an object of excessive devotion. Muslims are to pray 5 times daily facing Ka'aba and its Black rock and visit by Haj where they kiss or point to the lump of stone.
[ .. Muslims generally believe that Adam had made it first and that it had been rebuilt by Noah after the Deluge.]
The Buddha idols are in that category, but at least Buddha had compassion as his motive. Mahommed just killed.
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falah
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #84 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
chimera wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 8:32pm:
An idol is an object of excessive devotion. Muslims are to pray 5 times daily facing Ka'aba and its Black rock and visit by Haj where they kiss or point to the lump of stone.
[ .. Muslims generally believe that Adam had made it first and that it had been rebuilt by Noah after the Deluge.]
The Buddha idols are in that category, but at least Buddha had compassion as his motive. Mahommed just killed.


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

What exactly constitutes "excessive devotion" as you term it? When Jews pray to the Temple Mount are they worshipping it? Is that excessive devotion?

Have a focal point of prayer serves to unify the prayers. How could people pray together if they are praying in different directions.

God Almighty commanded Muslims to face the temple in Mecca when praying, this provides unity to Muslims. Unity being an important part of monotheism.

Even if the Ka'bah were completely destroyed it would not matter, Muslims would just build another temple in its place - as has happened in the past.

Kissing the Black stone is not a compulsory part of the religion. It is only done by some as an act of love for God and  Heaven - which the stone fell from. If a person kisses their mother on the cheek is that sign of affection worship?

Muslims raise their hands at one of the corners of the temple in salute to God Almight at the beginning of a circumambulation of the temple. The cicumambulation around the temple is a way of worshipping God Almighty, the owner of the temple. It is similar to the way the angels worship God - circling Him whilst singing his praise. It is also similar to the worship of the moon which glorifies God Almighty by circling the Earth, or electrons which circle the neucleus of an atom.

Is the moon worshipping the Earth or God Almighty in its orbit?

The Ka'bah and the Black stone are not living things with souls. On the other hand, the Buddha is/was thought to be a living thing with a soul and is worshipped by poor deluded souls.


No Muslim stands at the Ka'bah and says "Oh Ka'bah, give me such and such!" Because it is a square-shaped building not a living creature with a soul. People do not usually ask buildings to answer their prayers.

Statues, on the other hand, have a long history of being worshipped, and having people ask them to answer their prayers. This is why Islam forbids statues.





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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #85 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:58pm
 
Yes the temple stones are as idols for Jews because of their devotion to stones. Everybody else on the planet can pray without facing the one idol. This unity is physical and demonstrates a lack of other mental connections to Allah. Thus, you say "another temple" can be built there , as if Islam can't exist without. Ka'aba stone has no function apart from idolatry. Hands are raisd "at one corner" - that would be the black stone corner?
Your approval of smashing other peoples' stones in favour of your meaningless stone suggests that Ka'aba has done nothing useful.
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #86 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 10:43pm
 
chimera wrote on Apr 21st, 2012 at 9:58pm:
Everybody else on the planet can pray without facing the one idol. This unity is physical and demonstrates a lack of other mental connections to Allah.


When Muslims pray, they pray in a group facing the Ka'bah. This promotes unity amongst the Muslims. When I pray I know that I am facing the same direction as 1 billion other Muslims.

How would people pray as a group if they did not have a common point of direction?


...


...




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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #87 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 11:04pm
 
If they related to Allah as a god they wouldn't need a rock as a substitute central focus. Nor would they need physical uniformity in lines of simultaneous bowing and kneeling. Buddhists have more unity than Sunni/Shia deadly wars about hadith. Buddhists don't burn mosques or churches or smash the Kabah idol.
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #88 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 11:12pm
 
For some reason that photo reminds me of the southpark episode about the icentipad.
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Re: Da Vinci was a muslim...
Reply #89 - Apr 21st, 2012 at 11:15pm
 
It is good when they pray.

When they pray they cannot be throwing petrol bombs and trying to kill people.
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