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SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems (Read 6345 times)
Yadda
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SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Apr 9th, 2012 at 11:46am
 
SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems...
...and an example of moslems justifying this slaughter, as a moslem war against infidels.






In the current conflict in Syria, each side in the conflict has the conviction that THEY ONLY, are the REAL moslems.

n.b.
As one of our OzPol compatriots has said....

"Conviction is the art of being certain"

the sig line of NorthOfNorth, helian.

The Alawite moslems [i.e. the Syrian government forces] consider the Sunni moslem faction to be infidels.
And the Sunni moslem faction [i.e. the insurgents] consider the Alawite moslems to be infidels.


e.g.
An example here on OzPol of how intolerant moslems ARE, of anyone outside of their own moslem group/faction....

Quote:

Yadda you are a nice person. Alawites are not Muslim, they are Alawites.

Their beliefs are totally contrary to Islam.

The Syrian government and elite military forces are drawn fronm the Alawites.

What you have shown has nothing to do with Islam.




Syria Exposed - FOUR CORNERS 2012-02-20
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1329795404/3#3


n.b.
"....Alawites are not Muslim...."


Those are the words of a 'rational' moslem and a REAL moslem, here on the OzPol site.

So there you have it.

Alawite moslems, ARE NOT,     ......moslems.

[i.e. In the same sense that a Shia moslem would declare that the Sunni moslems, ARE NOT moslems.]

!!!




+++

All REAL moslems 'know' that the present conflict in Syria, IS NOT A CONFLICT IN WHICH MOSLEMS ARE KILLING MOSLEMS.

All REAL moslems 'know' this because all REAL moslems 'know', that it is not lawful for a moslem to intentionally kill another moslem.

ISLAMIC law strictly forbids a moslem, from intentionally killing,    ......>> another moslem <<...

"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.92-93






And when falah says,
"Yadda you are a nice person. Alawites are not Muslim...."
,    ....falah knows [i.e. falah as a Sunni moslem, has a conviction], that the Alawite moslems [a faction of Shia ISLAM] are infidels.

So when Alawite moslems die in this conflict in Syria [e.g. in car bomb explosions, in Damascus], falah cannot grieve for the dead Alawite moslems.

On such occasions rather, perhaps, people like falah will give out sweets, to their [REAL] moslem friends ?

To celebrate the victory of the ['right kind' of] moslems, over the friends of SATAN [i.e. the 'wrong kind' of moslems].

When Alawite moslems in Syria die, Sunni moslems around the world can only be happy and joyous, that more infidels have gone to Allah's hell.


n.b.
"Yadda you are a nice person. Alawites are not Muslim, they are Alawites infidels."


In the current conflict in Syria, both the Alawite moslems, and the Sunni moslems, are each >> certain << [they have a conviction], that their opponents are infidels.


And so, those infidels who resist the authority of the REAL moslems, deserve no mercy, but should be slain [  <---- Allah commands this. And Allah, is never wrong! ]....

"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City....whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
Koran 33.60,61

n.b.
"....they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."





Any treachery, every deceit, and the most horrible violence, may justifiably be brought by moslems, against their enemies, because the REAL moslems know, and the REAL moslems have the conviction, that they are fighting against Allah's enemies, WHO ARE THE FRIENDS OF SATAN.

And SATAN is evil.

And we all hate what is evil, don't we ?

+++


Dictionary;
infidel = = a person who has no religion or whose religion is not that of the majority.


Each side in this present conflict in Syria, is demonstrating [imo, their insanity, and] the intransigence of the ISLAMIC 'moral' position towards ALL 'infidels'.

But the stance of the REAL moslems, is a 'justified' stance.  [...in their eyes]

Justified by ISLAM, and justified by the 'purity' of ISLAM's doctrines of violence against those who resist Allah's will.

Doctrines which are authorized by Allah's direct commands [in the Koran], demonstrating how infidels should be fought.

Fought with utter ruthlessness, wherever resistance to moslem authority is expressed.

And this ruthlessness towards the enemies of Allah is justified by ISLAM as very 'good works', because the REAL moslems know that they are,
1/  fighting against the 'oppressors' of the people,
2/  who are 'the friends of SATAN'.


Moslems who fight against their enemies, are doing  'good works', as Allah has revealed' that moslems who engage in the Jihad [against his enemies] are fighting against 'the friends of SATAN'....

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76

Infidels are oppressors, AND, the friends of SATAN.




All REAL moslems are virtuous people.

In their persecution of non-moslems, moslems are merely obeying Allah's own directives and commands.

You can see, can't you, that moslems, in all of their conflicts with non-moslems, are totally justified, by their god, Allah ?
/sarc off

And it is clear as day, that in this present conflict within Syria, that on both sides of the conflict, it is the moslems who are killing the 'infidels',

Because remember [from above];

"....If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell,...."

Koran 4.92-93



+++

But, it is an obligation for everyone who calls himself/herself a moslem, to join the Jihad, against Allah's enemies...

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


The Jihad [against Allah's enemies], is an religious obligation, FOR >> EVERY << MOSLEM MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD.

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Koran 9.38, 39

That is Allah, speaking in the third person.     Wink







+++

And now, something completely different.

A few words from the God of Israel...

Psalms 9:16
The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.

Psalms 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

I'd like to see that.





+++

And a little addendum, a little something extra...



So who are the REAL moslems ?

The Alawite moslems ???

OR, the Sunni moslems ???



You decide....

Quote:

Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar, YOU are the unbeliever.

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God.



You muslims insist that ONLY muslims are the 'properly guided'.

Is he who is on a path of lies and deception, 'properly guided'??



AN EXPLANATION OF THE WORD 'KUFFAR'...


"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar


Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0


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« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:01pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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hawil
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:05pm
 
All REAL moslems are virtuous people.

There must be a lot of moslems who are not virtuous, because they have been killing each other in many countries, but then so did the Christians and still do.
Religions were all invented by humans for the benefit of some humans at the expense of other humans; elite or powerful versus the weak.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #2 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:17pm
 
Yadda you are an idiot, somewhat retarded it would seem.

The government and military of Syria is run by Alawites, not Muslims.

Alawites are religious group found in mainly in Syria. The Alwite religion (known as Nusairy in Arabic) was invented only a few centuries ago.

The Assad family that rule Syria are Nusairi Alawites, not Muslims.
...



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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #3 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:45pm
 
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:17pm:
Yadda you are an idiot, somewhat retarded it would seem.

The government and military of Syria is run by Alawites, not Muslims.

Alawites are religious group found in mainly in Syria.


The Alwite religion (known as Nusairy in Arabic) was invented only a few centuries ago.


The Assad family that rule Syria are Nusairi Alawites, not Muslims.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/F-assad.jpg






falah,

IMO, ISLAM itself is a fabricated, false religion.

And imo, Mohammed is a false prophet  [i.e. Mohammed is NOT a prophet, at all].

Mohammed was a warlord, a pirate, a pedophile, a rapist, a murderer, and a tyrant,    ....imo.



+++

Google;
Alawite muslims


2+ million hits.....

Quote:

Alawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi
In 1966, Alawi-oriented military officers successfully rebelled and expelled the old Ba'ath that had looked to the Christian Michel Aflaq and the Sunni Muslim ...

Alawite State - Category:Alawites - Alavi
A special Islamic group - the Muslim Alawites (Nusairians) in Syria
www.30-days.net/muslims/muslims-in/mid-near-east/syria-alawites/
Today's Syrian president, Bashar al-Asad, is Alawite, and has only formally converted to Sunni Islam. In the eyes of Sunni Muslims, who form the majority of the ...

'Alawites in the Muslim World
www.muslimhope.com/Alawites.htm
'Alawites in the Muslim World May 2007 version. 'Alawites are an offshoot of Shi'ites. Some other Muslims, particularly in Syria and Lebanon, accept them as Muslims...

Islam and Muslims: Alawis
atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_alawis.htm
There are three Alawi doctrines which cause them to be rejected by most Muslims as a valid form of Islam. The first is the belief in incarnation - the idea that God ...







Hey falah,

You are not a moslem.      [  <----- falah, ask an Alawite, or Shia moslem! ]

You are moslem impersonator !!!!!!

Only the Alawites are the REAL moslems.
/sarc off


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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falah
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #4 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 1:38pm
 
Yadda, 90% of Muslims are Sunni. That is more than 1 billion people. About 20% of all the people on Earth.

If you were to exclude Iran, close to 99% of the Muslims in the world are Sunni.

Alawites make up less than 0.1% of the world's population.

The Alawis were installed as military leaders by the French inthe 1940's in order to suppress the Muslims.





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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #5 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:16pm
 
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

Yadda, 90% of Muslims are Sunni. That is more than 1 billion people. About 20% of all the people on Earth.

If you were to exclude Iran, close to 99% of the Muslims in the world are Sunni.


Alawites make up less than 0.1% of the world's population.

The Alawis were installed as military leaders by the French inthe 1940's in order to suppress the Muslims.




ISLAM = = Divine right, is determined by force of numbers ?

Right ???

LOL

LOL

LOL








falah,

A lesson from history.....


Moses proved to Pharaoh, that one man, with God,       ....is a majority.




And that is a lesson which all moslems will learn anew, soon.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #6 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:23pm
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:16pm:
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

Yadda, 90% of Muslims are Sunni. That is more than 1 billion people. About 20% of all the people on Earth.

If you were to exclude Iran, close to 99% of the Muslims in the world are Sunni.


Alawites make up less than 0.1% of the world's population.

The Alawis were installed as military leaders by the French inthe 1940's in order to suppress the Muslims.




ISLAM = = Divine right, is determined by force of numbers ?

Right ???

LOL

LOL

LOL








falah,

A lesson from history.....


Moses proved to Pharaoh, that one man, with God,       ....is a majority.




And that is a lesson which all moslems will learn anew, soon.





Looks like the Christians should be learning that lesson in Afghanistan.

10,000 Muslim Taliban soldiers with God defeating 100,000+ Christian soldiers with the devil.

You should learn something there Yadda.


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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #7 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:37pm
 
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:23pm:
Yadda wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:16pm:
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

Yadda, 90% of Muslims are Sunni. That is more than 1 billion people. About 20% of all the people on Earth.

If you were to exclude Iran, close to 99% of the Muslims in the world are Sunni.


Alawites make up less than 0.1% of the world's population.

The Alawis were installed as military leaders by the French inthe 1940's in order to suppress the Muslims.




ISLAM = = Divine right, is determined by force of numbers ?

Right ???

LOL

LOL

LOL








falah,

A lesson from history.....


Moses proved to Pharaoh, that one man, with God,       ....is a majority.




And that is a lesson which all moslems will learn anew, soon.





Looks like the Christians should be learning that lesson in Afghanistan.

10,000 Muslim Taliban soldiers with God defeating 100,000+ Christian soldiers with the devil.

You should learn something there Yadda.





The lesson is clear, to our political and community leaders.

Trying to pacify [or 'normalise'] a nation like Afghanistan [a nation full of moslems], or, trying to 'accommodate' moslems, peacefully, among non-moslem is impossible.



It is as foolish [and as futile] as a person trying to domesticate a 4 meter salt water crocodile.

Like a large salt water crocodile, ISLAM is a predatory creature.

There is no pacifying a creature like ISLAM.

ISLAM must be either destroyed, OR, contained.



....OR, let God deal with it.

And he will.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #8 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:45pm
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 2:37pm:


It is as foolish [and as futile] as a person trying to domesticate a 4 meter salt water crocodile.

Like a large salt water crocodile, ISLAM is a predatory creature.

There is no pacifying a creature like ISLAM.

ISLAM must be either destroyed, OR, contained.






ISLAM produces only one thing,    .....DEAD BODIES.

ISLAM, is a death cult.




"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260


e.g.
ISLAM = = 'Lets assassinate our critics.' .....


[i]"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #005.059.369





+++

Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #9 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 9:03pm
 
Abu believes that Shites are apostates.

He also believes in the death penalty for apostasy.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #10 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 9:28pm
 
The Alawis take their name from ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin and son-in-law of Muḥammad. They are Mohemedans. They believe in one god and they believe Mohammed to be god's prophet. That makes them as Mohammedan as falah or Abu or Osama bin Laden or Mohammed Atta or Gaddafi, the TAliban, the Ayatollahas and all the rest of them.



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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am
 
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #12 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.
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And in a way I'm yearning
To be done with all this weighing up of truth.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #13 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:17am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.

Well according to most people’s opinions on Israel they are not.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #14 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:19am
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:17am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.

Well according to most people’s opinions on Israel they are not.



What are you talking about?
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And in a way I'm yearning
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And a tooth for a tooth
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #15 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:23am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:19am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:17am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.

Well according to most people’s opinions on Israel they are not.



What are you talking about?

Well if people support Israel they should support Syria,
they are both doing the exact same thing.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #16 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:28am
 

How are they the same?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #17 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:30am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:28am:
How are they the same?

Both are fighting terrorists in populated areas and ignoring civilian casualties
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #18 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:55am
 
Who are the terrorists?

Syrian freedom fighters? Hamas?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #19 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:06am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:55am:
Who are the terrorists?

Syrian freedom fighters? Hamas?

Probably a mixture, but who knows.
I know for a fact that the west is involved and if it’s anything like Libya which it obviously is there are militias being payed in weapons and US dollars to fight the Syrian government.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #20 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:11am
 
Soren wrote on Apr 10th, 2012 at 9:28pm:
The Alawis take their name from ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin and son-in-law of Muḥammad.



This is because they worship Ali, a human being.

This contradicts the main principle of Islam; nothing has the right to be worshipped except God Almighty.

Alawites are not Muslim.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #21 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:32am
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.



Yes i agree.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #22 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:34am
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:32am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.



Yes i agree.
Then why is the Israeli government not when they are doing exactly the same thing?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #23 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37am
 
we do not target and attack civilians in Israel

We responds to attacks to us and targets where the missiles is come from.

The terrorists know this.
They know they fires Grad missile, Israel picks up launch site and immediate dispate of F-16s to response and retaliate.

So they puts the site near civilians.

So who is the blame? The people who deliberately puts near civilans and fires unprovoked or the Israeli Air Force who is protecting the people?

I know who is the blame.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #24 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:39am
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37am:
we do not target and attack civilians in Israel

We responds to attacks to us and targets where the missiles is come from.

The terrorists know this.
They know they fires Grad missile, Israel picks up launch site and immediate dispate of F-16s to response and retaliate.

So they puts the site near civilians.

So who is the blame? The people who deliberately puts near civilans and fires unprovoked or the Israeli Air Force who is protecting the people?

I know who is the blame.

Nor does Syria
They are fighting terrorists just like Israel.
And just like Israel innocent people die as collateral damage in those fights.

It really puts your support for Israel in doubt if you can’t support another country going through the same dilemma.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #25 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:04pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:32am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.



Yes i agree.


The Israeli government in its current form is almost as bad.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #26 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:17pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:06am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:55am:
Who are the terrorists?

Syrian freedom fighters? Hamas?

Probably a mixture, but who knows.
I know for a fact that the west is involved and if it’s anything like Libya which it obviously is there are militias being payed in weapons and US dollars to fight the Syrian government.



So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

falah wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:11am:
Soren wrote on Apr 10th, 2012 at 9:28pm:
The Alawis take their name from ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin and son-in-law of Muḥammad.



This is because they worship Ali, a human being.

This contradicts the main principle of Islam; nothing has the right to be worshipped except God Almighty.

Alawites are not Muslim.



Should they be stoned to death for apostasy Falah?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #27 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:19pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:32am:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists




The Syrian government are terrorists.



Yes i agree.


The Israeli government in its current form is almost as bad.

Its just as bad,
the only thing that makes it seem better is public opinion which is baseless
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #28 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:20pm
 
Quote:
So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

I do have a clue whats going on and the Syrian government is no different from the Israeli.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #29 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:03pm
 
Seems most of you disagree with me but can you actually point out any significant differences between Syria and Israel on this issue?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #30 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm
 
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #31 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #32 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #33 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #34 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:30pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:20pm:
Quote:
So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

I do have a clue whats going on and the Syrian government is no different from the Israeli.



This is your response to the most basic question - who is killing who:

Quote:
Probably a mixture, but who knows.


Sounds to me like someone who wants to make a silly point without bothering to check any facts.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #35 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:36pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?




Do some proper research on the victims of  Assad and his soldiers.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #36 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:30pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:20pm:
Quote:
So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

I do have a clue whats going on and the Syrian government is no different from the Israeli.



This is your response to the most basic question - who is killing who:

Quote:
Probably a mixture, but who knows.


Sounds to me like someone who wants to make a silly point without bothering to check any facts.

If there are people committing terrorist attacks in Syria the government has a right to fight them.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #37 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:40pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:36pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?




Do some proper research on the victims of  Assad and his soldiers.

Collateral damage
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #38 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?


The Syrian uprising has the same roots as the Tunisian and Egyptian (and the failed Bahraini) uprising.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #39 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:40pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:36pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?




Do some proper research on the victims of  Assad and his soldiers.

Collateral damage



Yeah, sometimes. And doesn't it f.cking burn.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #40 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:47pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?


The Syrian uprising has the same roots as the Tunisian and Egyptian (and the failed Bahraini) uprising.

US brought and backed mercenaries?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #41 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:47pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:40pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:36pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?




Do some proper research on the victims of  Assad and his soldiers.

Collateral damage



Yeah, sometimes. And doesn't it f.cking burn.

No all the time
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #42 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:04pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:39pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:30pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:20pm:
Quote:
So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

I do have a clue whats going on and the Syrian government is no different from the Israeli.



This is your response to the most basic question - who is killing who:

Quote:
Probably a mixture, but who knows.


Sounds to me like someone who wants to make a silly point without bothering to check any facts.

If there are people committing terrorist attacks in Syria the government has a right to fight them.


You are confusing might with right. Just being a government doesn't give you a right to anything.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #43 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:19pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:47pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?


The Syrian uprising has the same roots as the Tunisian and Egyptian (and the failed Bahraini) uprising.

US brought and backed mercenaries?

The US has done as much as it could (without intervening) to prevent the success of the Arab Spring. Having lost the initiative, first in Tunisia and then in Egypt (with the US doing everything it could diplomatically to support Mubarak), it then supported Saudi Arabia's intervention in Bahrain and has little desire for regime change in Syria.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #44 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:39pm
 
Most governments will turn on their own people if they feel the stability of the country is threatened.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #45 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:46pm
 

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #46 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 8:02pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:19pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:47pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:43pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:15pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Israel is looking out for the interests of Israelis, however much we may disagree with their methods.

Assad is looking out for himself and his cronies.

So Assad should let the terrorists continue on killing people and destroying the country?

Assad is looking out for his country just as much as Israel does



What utter crap.
How?
Why is it ok for Israel to fight terrorists but not Syria?


The Syrian uprising has the same roots as the Tunisian and Egyptian (and the failed Bahraini) uprising.

US brought and backed mercenaries?

The US has done as much as it could (without intervening) to prevent the success of the Arab Spring. Having lost the initiative, first in Tunisia and then in Egypt (with the US doing everything it could diplomatically to support Mubarak), it then supported Saudi Arabia's intervention in Bahrain and has little desire for regime change in Syria.



I hate Assad but it is better for rest of us non-arab for him to stay.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #47 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:17pm
 
PP asks.....



bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:

So why is it you support Israel government?


Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists






While Annie responds......

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:11am:

The Syrian government are terrorists.







Why support Israel, and the Jewish people ?

My response, to both PP and Annie, is expressed in the content of this image....


...

IMAGE SOURCE....
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/fighting-for-free-speech-in-a-manhattan-courtr...


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #48 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:35pm
 
Because they are so civilized
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #49 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 7:04pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:39pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 6:30pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 12:20pm:
Quote:
So your argument is that because you have no clue what is actually going on, it is the same as Israel, because you don't know anything about that situation either?

I do have a clue whats going on and the Syrian government is no different from the Israeli.



This is your response to the most basic question - who is killing who:

Quote:
Probably a mixture, but who knows.


Sounds to me like someone who wants to make a silly point without bothering to check any facts.



If there are people committing terrorist attacks in Syria the government has a right to fight them.




You are confusing might with right. Just being a government doesn't give you a right to anything.






On a morality level, that sentiment is correct.




But in real world 'politick', the power paradigm which has always prevailed in man's political world is this....

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian


That is 'the law of the universe' which most of mankind have chosen to embrace, in his dealings with his fellow man, imo.

The 'law' that might is right.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #50 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:56pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:35pm:

Because they [Israel] are so civilized




Yes.



Self defence, is not an uncivilised act[ion].

And self defence, is not a violent act [ ....on the part of the person defending them self].

True self defence, even where the attacker loses his life, is a righteous act, before God.




Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.



This ---->, is what ISLAMIC Jihad, against Israel, is doing ---->......

Deuteronomy 27:25
Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.



Matthew 19:16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18  He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19  Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.





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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #51 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:59pm
 
Quote:
Self defence, is not uncivilised action.

So then you support the Syrian government?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #52 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:08pm
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:56pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:35pm:

Because they [Israel] are so civilized




Yes.



Self defence, is not an uncivilised act[ion].

And self defence, is not a violent act [ ....on the part of the person defending them self].

True self defence, even where the attacker loses his life, is a righteous act, before God.






Mark 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.





And what is the law [of God], regarding those who come as a false witness [i.e. moslem accusers, of the Jewish people], so as to justify themselves doing another harm ?

Deuteronomy 19:16
If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17  Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18  And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19  Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20  And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
21  And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #53 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:20pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 10:59pm:
Quote:
Self defence, is not uncivilised action.


So then you support the Syrian government?




No.




The Syrian regime are moslems.

I do not align myself with people who justify murdering others, to attain political power.

And that is >> EXACTLY << what ISLAM teaches, to all moslems,
.....TO BOTH SUNNI MOSLEMS, AND, TO SHIA MUSLIMS.

That is what ISLAM justifies.



My position, my attitude to moslems, and ISLAM.....

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to lie to, to plunder and to rob, to rape, to enslave, and to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.


If as some would claim, that individual, non-radicalised moslems are good people, then why do those 'good' people, choose to associate themselves with ISLAM ???

n.b.
According to ISLAM itself, a good 'moslem', is defined as a person who chooses to embrace the tenets and laws of ISLAM.



ISLAM is a political tyranny.

And ISLAM teaches moslems to embrace political tyranny, and encourages moslems to justify and accept violence against, and the oppression of, those who are not moslems.






+++



Psalms 9:16
The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #54 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:24pm
 
But they are defending themselves against terrorists?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #55 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:26pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists


It is completely different in every way.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #56 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:34pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:24pm:

But they are defending themselves against terrorists?




Yes.

And they themselves [the Syrian regime], use the very same justification, and they use the very same violence, as the insurgents [i.e. the 'terrorists'] who are attacking them.

The situation is, imo, that: a 'terrorist' regime, is being attacked by another group of terrorists.



PP,

Did you read and understand, what i was saying in my opening post, in this thread ?




Quote:

SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems...
...and an example of moslems justifying this slaughter, as a moslem war against infidels.



In the current conflict in Syria, each side in the conflict has the conviction that THEY ONLY, are the REAL moslems.

n.b.
As one of our OzPol compatriots has said....

"Conviction is the art of being certain"

the sig line of NorthOfNorth, helian.

The Alawite moslems [i.e. the Syrian government forces] consider the Sunni moslem faction to be infidels.
And the Sunni moslem faction [i.e. the insurgents] consider the Alawite moslems to be infidels.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #57 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm
 
Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.

We has aggressive country like Syria of to be mind,

We needs support from our ally like USA, like Australia and like UK,

We are little brave country but we fight on
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #58 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:51pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm:
Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.



The true agressor is Israel:

Deir Yassin: No passing over history


n April 9, 1948, scores of Palestinian civilians were massacred at the village of Deir Yassin through co-operative efforts of Yishuv forces like the Irgun, Lehi and the Haganah. 

The Zionist narrative on the events of 1948 and the Nakba - the Arabic word for the depopulation of Palestine - talks about the war as a defensive one where there was no intention on behalf of the Israeli forces to shift the demographics by force. Rather, that narrative tells us, the refugees were created during the hostilities which began when five Arab armies invaded Israel the day after it declared its independence on May 15, 1948.

Too often, people who talk about "making peace" advise that we pass over history and look forward without getting lost in the "duelling narratives" of this period. But peace cannot happen without a rectification of past injustices and we cannot approach this without talking about what these injustices are.

The Zionist narrative will counter, defensively, that any injustices are not the fault of Israel and this is where the issue of "duelling narratives" prevents further discussion. 

But there are simple, undeniable facts that any two sane people, Zionist or otherwise, should be able to agree on. For example, I think we can all agree that April 9, 1948, occurred before May 15, 1948. This is not a matter perspective, this is chronology.

When you actually look at the history - even versions documented by Israeli historians using official Israeli archival material - what you learn is that a very significant portion of the total refugees were created long before May 15, 1948. Had it not been for the hundreds and thousands of refugees flowing into Arab states and massacres like Deir Yassin, the Arab armies would likely not have been compelled to intervene.

Clearly, indisputable and historically non-controversial chronological facts blow significant holes in the Zionist narrative about cause and effect. But sequence is not the only problem. The other point of contention Zionists hold is that Israeli actions during the war were defensive and not intended to depopulate.

The goal of the Zionist movement was to establish a Jewish state in the land of Palestine which had a significant non-Jewish majority of Palestinian Arabs. Through years of immigration, the Zionists managed to grow from 11 per cent of Palestine's inhabitants in 1922 to about 30 per cent in 1946.

Refugee creation

The Zionist goal, which was unachievable for decades, came to fruition after 18 months of hostilities when Jews suddenly became 85 per cent of the population of the state of Israel. So, the Zionist narrative will have you believe that the Zionist dream of establishing a state with a Jewish majority, which was unachievable without war then, finally achieved during the fog of one, happened completely by accident.

One does not have to be a supporter of Israel or Palestine to accept this explanation - just astoundingly naïve. 

Sweeping changes in demographics over territory do not happen by accident. In the modern era, they are invariably state-driven initiatives. 

Prior to May 15, 1948, the Israeli state army, or Haganah, was engaged in conquering and razing scores of civilian villages - not military installations. There is really no "defensive" explanation for the demolition of scores of entire civilian villages. The only possible objective behind such actions is to prevent Palestinian Arabs from having homes to live in and thus force them elsewhere.

In March 1948, the United States - which had emerged as a superpower after the Second World War - decided to withdraw its support for the 1947 UN Partition Plan because the vacuum of power created by the impending end of the British Mandate would result "in chaos, heavy fighting and much loss of life in Palestine".

Seeing this, the Zionists knew their shot at achieving a Jewish state through diplomatic means would be delayed at the least, if not abandoned all together. They decided to achieve it by force. That is why the depopulation accelerated at this point.

Within 45 days, before May 15, 1948, nearly 170 towns and villages had been depopulated, accounting for about 380,000 refugees. This period, prior to the entry of Arab armies, saw the highest rate of refugee creation between 1947 and 1949. The effort to change the demography of the landscape by force was in full swing.

We cannot achieve any form of Israeli-Palestinian peace while ignoring this past.

As many marked Easter and Passover this weekend - celebrations of redemption - we should turn our focus today to the anniversary of a massacre and the decisive period of depopulation during which it took place.

Israelis and Palestinians alike cannot move forward without addressing the original sins the state of Israel was built upon.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201249125656342960.html
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #59 - Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:52pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm:

Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.

We has aggressive country like Syria of to be mind,

We needs support from our ally like USA, like Australia and like UK,

We are little brave country but we fight on





Avram,

I agree with you.

In a fair world, countries like the USA, Australia and UK should support Israel.

But sadly, we do not live in a fair world.




Avram,

In the Jewish Old Testament, the God of Israel says that all nations will be against Israel [...in these latter times].

Why so ?

The God of Israel wants the Jewish people to return to him, and to understand that only he can defeat Israel's worldly enemies.


Google;
all nations will turn against israel







Avram,

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


Love God's righteousness Avram, with all of your heart, and your God will guide you, and Israel.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #60 - Apr 12th, 2012 at 12:13am
 
falah wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:51pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm:
Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.



The true agressor is Israel:

Deir Yassin: No passing over history


n April 9, 1948, scores of Palestinian civilians were massacred at the village of Deir Yassin through co-operative efforts of Yishuv forces like the Irgun, Lehi and the Haganah. 

The Zionist narrative on the events of 1948 and the Nakba - the Arabic word for the depopulation of Palestine - talks about the war as a defensive one where there was no intention on behalf of the Israeli forces to shift the demographics by force. Rather, that narrative tells us, the refugees were created during the hostilities which began when five Arab armies invaded Israel the day after it declared its independence on May 15, 1948.

Too often, people who talk about "making peace" advise that we pass over history and look forward without getting lost in the "duelling narratives" of this period. But peace cannot happen without a rectification of past injustices and we cannot approach this without talking about what these injustices are.

The Zionist narrative will counter, defensively, that any injustices are not the fault of Israel and this is where the issue of "duelling narratives" prevents further discussion. 

But there are simple, undeniable facts that any two sane people, Zionist or otherwise, should be able to agree on. For example, I think we can all agree that April 9, 1948, occurred before May 15, 1948. This is not a matter perspective, this is chronology.

When you actually look at the history - even versions documented by Israeli historians using official Israeli archival material - what you learn is that a very significant portion of the total refugees were created long before May 15, 1948. Had it not been for the hundreds and thousands of refugees flowing into Arab states and massacres like Deir Yassin, the Arab armies would likely not have been compelled to intervene.

Clearly, indisputable and historically non-controversial chronological facts blow significant holes in the Zionist narrative about cause and effect. But sequence is not the only problem. The other point of contention Zionists hold is that Israeli actions during the war were defensive and not intended to depopulate.

The goal of the Zionist movement was to establish a Jewish state in the land of Palestine which had a significant non-Jewish majority of Palestinian Arabs. Through years of immigration, the Zionists managed to grow from 11 per cent of Palestine's inhabitants in 1922 to about 30 per cent in 1946.

Refugee creation

The Zionist goal, which was unachievable for decades, came to fruition after 18 months of hostilities when Jews suddenly became 85 per cent of the population of the state of Israel. So, the Zionist narrative will have you believe that the Zionist dream of establishing a state with a Jewish majority, which was unachievable without war then, finally achieved during the fog of one, happened completely by accident.

One does not have to be a supporter of Israel or Palestine to accept this explanation - just astoundingly naïve. 

Sweeping changes in demographics over territory do not happen by accident. In the modern era, they are invariably state-driven initiatives. 

Prior to May 15, 1948, the Israeli state army, or Haganah, was engaged in conquering and razing scores of civilian villages - not military installations. There is really no "defensive" explanation for the demolition of scores of entire civilian villages. The only possible objective behind such actions is to prevent Palestinian Arabs from having homes to live in and thus force them elsewhere.

In March 1948, the United States - which had emerged as a superpower after the Second World War - decided to withdraw its support for the 1947 UN Partition Plan because the vacuum of power created by the impending end of the British Mandate would result "in chaos, heavy fighting and much loss of life in Palestine".

Seeing this, the Zionists knew their shot at achieving a Jewish state through diplomatic means would be delayed at the least, if not abandoned all together. They decided to achieve it by force. That is why the depopulation accelerated at this point.

Within 45 days, before May 15, 1948, nearly 170 towns and villages had been depopulated, accounting for about 380,000 refugees. This period, prior to the entry of Arab armies, saw the highest rate of refugee creation between 1947 and 1949. The effort to change the demography of the landscape by force was in full swing.

We cannot achieve any form of Israeli-Palestinian peace while ignoring this past.

As many marked Easter and Passover this weekend - celebrations of redemption - we should turn our focus today to the anniversary of a massacre and the decisive period of depopulation during which it took place.

Israelis and Palestinians alike cannot move forward without addressing the original sins the state of Israel was built upon.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201249125656342960.html




Looking at the narrative above;

CULTURALLY, MOSLEMS ARE KNOWN TO BE INVETERATE LIARS.

MOSLEMS WILL LIE, WHENEVER THEY CAN, TO TRY TO ACHIEVE AN OBJECTIVE.


Q.
THEREFORE; WHEN WE KNOW THAT MOSLEMS DEAL SO 'LOOSELY' WITH THE TRUTH, HOW CAN WE TRUST ANY ONE OF THEIR NARRATIVES ?

A.
We cannot.







Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya


Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"




How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war




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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #61 - Apr 12th, 2012 at 12:51pm
 
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:26pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 9:59am:
So why is it you support Israel government?
Their situation is no different from the one the Syrian government is in.

Syria is fighting terrorists


It is completely different in every way.

You are a hypocrit
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #62 - Apr 12th, 2012 at 6:34pm
 
falah wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:51pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm:
Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.



The true agressor is Israel:

Deir Yassin: No passing over history


n April 9, 1948, scores of Palestinian civilians were massacred at the village of Deir Yassin through co-operative efforts of Yishuv forces like the Irgun, Lehi and the Haganah. 

The Zionist narrative on the events of 1948 and the Nakba - the Arabic word for the depopulation of Palestine - talks about the war as a defensive one where there was no intention on behalf of the Israeli forces to shift the demographics by force. Rather, that narrative tells us, the refugees were created during the hostilities which began when five Arab armies invaded Israel the day after it declared its independence on May 15, 1948.


Sounds like Abu's version of the history of the Caliphate, where it took over most of the known world by defending itself.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #63 - Apr 12th, 2012 at 11:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 12th, 2012 at 6:34pm:
falah wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:51pm:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Apr 11th, 2012 at 11:37pm:
Yadda -- we Israelis continue to battle as the little country which is surround all sides by aggressors who has started 3 wars with us in last half century.



The true agressor is Israel:

Deir Yassin: No passing over history


n April 9, 1948, scores of Palestinian civilians were massacred at the village of Deir Yassin through co-operative efforts of Yishuv forces like the Irgun, Lehi and the Haganah. 

The Zionist narrative on the events of 1948 and the Nakba - the Arabic word for the depopulation of Palestine - talks about the war as a defensive one where there was no intention on behalf of the Israeli forces to shift the demographics by force. Rather, that narrative tells us, the refugees were created during the hostilities which began when five Arab armies invaded Israel the day after it declared its independence on May 15, 1948.



Sounds like Abu's version of the history of the Caliphate, where it took over most of the known world by defending itself.




Grin








[LIE #1]
Moslems are a virtuous people,

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

[LIE #2]
And in their own eyes, moslems are this worlds predominant identifiable group who are the victims of constant persecution [...by non-moslems].




#1, All moslems know that they are NOT a virtuous people.  [e.g. read the first post in this thread.]

#2, Moslems know that they are NOT a persecuted people, but rather that moslems themselves are projecting that particular accusation against the victims of moslem culture [i.e. ISLAM].






e.g.
Typical moslem 'virtue' on display, yet again;

Quote:

.....Shamim Bibi, 26, of village Chak No. 170/7R Colony, in the Fort Abbas area of Bahawalpur district, was charged under Section 295-C of Pakistan’s “blasphemy” statutes after neighbors accused her of uttering remarks against Muhammad. She was arrested on Feb. 28.
.......“Shamim has been implicated in a completely baseless case,” said her husband, Bashir Masih. “I was present with her at the time of the alleged incident … nothing of the sort happened. The Muslims cooked up a false story, though it’s still not clear who provoked them into leveling this accusation.”...



Pakistan: Christian mother of 6-month-old baby illegally held in jail for "blasphemy" after refusing to convert to Islam
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/pakistan-christian-mother-of-6-month-old-baby-...




+++


Where is the United Nations Human Rights Commission ?...

Where is Amnesty International ?...

Where is the mainstream Western media ?...

Where are the 'moderate' moslems, who are living in Western nations ?...

.....COMPLAINING EVERY TIME SUCH ABHORRENT COMMON OCCURRENCES HAPPEN WITHIN MAJORITY MOSLEM NATIONS ???
.....COMPLAINING ABOUT THE COMMON PERSECUTION AND OPPRESSION OF NON-MOSLEMS, LIVING WITHIN MAJORITY MOSLEM NATIONS ???






All moslems know that they are NOT a virtuous people.



Psalms 28:3
Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
4  Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.


Psalms 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.



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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #64 - Apr 13th, 2012 at 12:38am
 
Quote:
SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems


This thread is an example of how much better off we'd be without religion and the fanatics that support it.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #65 - Apr 13th, 2012 at 1:03am
 
Grey wrote on Apr 13th, 2012 at 12:38am:
Quote:
SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems


This thread is an example of how much better off we'd be without religion and the fanatics that support it.






This thread is an example of how much better off we'd be without human insanity, driven [empowered] by unrestrained human carnal desires.




'Normal' criminal behaviour - in mankind
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #66 - Apr 13th, 2012 at 10:29am
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 12th, 2012 at 11:47pm:


All moslems know that they are NOT a virtuous people.






CORRECTION;
All moslems who are NOT suffering from Cognitive dissonance, know that they are NOT a virtuous people.



Quote:

Cognitive dissonance
Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term to define the condition that results whenever an individual attempts to hold two incompatible, if not contradictory, thoughts at the same time even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance


e.g.
This assertion is widely proclaimed by many moslems [and by virtually ALL political leaders in the West]....
"ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant religion."



The reality, which is exposed by scrutiny....
THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #67 - Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:20pm
 
falah wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 12:17pm:
Yadda you are an idiot, somewhat retarded it would seem.

The government and military of Syria is run by Alawites, not Muslims.





"Egyptian Muslim cleric: Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate said that the Shiites are more dangerous to Islam than the Jews"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/06/egypt-muslim-cleric-says-that-muslim-brotherho...


...Coz Shiites are not moslems,   ....Shiites are only pretending to be moslems.
/sarc off





Please believe me; .........ALL MOSLEMS ARE 'PRETENDING' TO BE MOSLEMS.

i.e.
ALL moslems are self-serving deceivers.

That is just the nature of ISLAM coming out, in moslems.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #68 - Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:21pm
 
The Shi-ite religion was started by a Jew. It has a lot of similarities with Judaism like praying only three times a day.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #69 - Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:31pm
 
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:21pm:
The Shi-ite religion was started by a Jew. It has a lot of similarities with Judaism like praying only three times a day.


so murdering them is ok ?
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Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #70 - Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:41pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:31pm:
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:21pm:
The Shi-ite religion was started by a Jew. It has a lot of similarities with Judaism like praying only three times a day.


so murdering them is ok ?


Only someone as psychotic as you would ask such a question.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #71 - Jun 23rd, 2012 at 12:04am
 
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:41pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:31pm:
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:21pm:
The Shi-ite religion was started by a Jew. It has a lot of similarities with Judaism like praying only three times a day.


so murdering them is ok ?



Only someone as psychotic as you would ask such a question.





falah,

Only someone as psychotic as you would project the symptoms of your own psychotic sickness, onto others.




A simple definition of INSANITY.

Quote:

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.








...

ISLAM's 'gift', to America.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #72 - Jun 23rd, 2012 at 1:09am
 
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:41pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:31pm:
falah wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 11:21pm:
The Shi-ite religion was started by a Jew. It has a lot of similarities with Judaism like praying only three times a day.


so murdering them is ok ?


Only someone as psychotic as you would ask such a question.


only an insane islamic would divert the question he directly alluded to.

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Classic Right Wing
 
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IRAQ: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems..
Reply #73 - Aug 11th, 2013 at 12:53pm
 

IRAQ: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems...
...and an example of moslems justifying this slaughter, as a moslem war against infidels.




In Iraq, moslems are slaughter moslems, just as they do Syria, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc, etc.
[Q. who are the REAL infidels ??? ]


View this gallery of 'rightly guided' moslem car bombings [no bodies];
http://www.startribune.com/galleries/217382211.html
AND;
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/car-bombings-in-iraq-1375112449-slideshow/




List of mass car bombings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings




When moslems kill moslems in car bombings in Iraq [as well as in other ISLAMIC 'paradises'], we [those persons who do not understand the motives of REAL moslems] must understand that the moslems who perpetrate these outrages against civilians, are NOT, NOT, NOT, killing moslems.

Oh no!

The moslems [in moslem majority jurisdictions] who perpetrate these bombing outrages [at mosques, at funerals, and at markets] against civilians, know that they are doing Allahs 'good works', in killing the filthy infidels !!!

Q.
How can we be certain of this [misplaced motivation] ?

A.
Because ISLAM [and Allah] declares [in Allah's holy Koran] that while it is completely 'lawful' for a moslem to SLAUGHTER the infidel, a moslem must NEVER, EVER, kill [i.e. murder] a fellow moslem.

So, EVERY MOSLEM [bomber!] knows that he [the moslem] has a religious obligation [i.e. a 'religious' justification] to terrorise, subjugate [enslave], and/or kill, those who do not believe as they believe.

BUT, BUT, BUT, a moslem [bomber!] knows that he must NEVER, EVER, kill [i.e. murder] a fellow moslem.







So, then we [those persons who do not understand the motives of REAL moslems] must ask ourselves;

Q.
Who do these ISLAMIST [moslem] bombers think that they are killing [when they detonate car bombs in moslem majority jurisdictions], if they are not allowed to kill moslems ???

A.
These ISLAMIST [moslem] bombers KNOW, that they are killing non-moslems, the Kuffar [i.e. moslem >>impersonators<<]!





We can be absolutely sure that the moslem holy warriors are not targeting fellow moslems, in those bombings,

because Allah's law declares that moslems must never knowingly kill another moslem.


"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."

Koran 4.092, 93


But, killing Kuffar, AND, killing persons who are impersonating moslems [i.e. not 'real' moslems] is completely 'lawful', for a REAL moslem.





Google;
car bombs in iraq


a few of the hits.....

Quote:
Car Bombings Kill Scores Across Iraq - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/.../car-bombings-kill-scores-across-iraq.html
8 mins ago - As Iraqis on Saturday celebrated Id al-Fitr, the holiday that marks the end of Ramadan, a string of car bombs struck in mostly Shiite ...

Iraq car bombings death toll rises to nearly 80 - World - CBC News
www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/10/iraq-car-bomb-baghdad.html
2 hours ago - A wave of car bombings targeting cafés and markets around the Iraqi capital of Baghdad has killed 69 people out celebrating the end of the ...

Car bombs kill nearly 80 in Iraq, target Eid festivities | Reuters
www.reuters.com/article/.../us-iraq-violence-idUSBRE97905Y20130810?
4 hours ago - BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A series of car bombs in mainly Shi'ite areas of Baghdad killed 57 people and wounded more than 150 on Saturday, ...

Iraq car bombings leave 69 dead amid Eid al-Fitr celebrations - CBS ...
www.cbsnews.com/.../iraq-car-bombings-leave-69-dead-amid-eid-al-fitr-cel...
2 hours ago - Bloodshed comes after authorities promise to step up protection efforts for Eid al-Fitr celebrations marking end of Muslim holy month.

Iraq: Car Bombings Hit Ramadan Celebrations - Sky News
news.sky.com/story/1127049/iraq-car-bombings-hit-ramadan-celebrations
4 hours ago - Explosions targeted markets, busy shopping streets and parks where families like to mark the Eid holiday.





MORE....
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IRAQ: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems..
Reply #74 - Aug 11th, 2013 at 12:56pm
 
CONTINUED FROM LAST POST....


IRAQ: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems...
...and an example of moslems justifying this slaughter, as a moslem war against infidels.










ISLAM
- is the worldwide death cult that sanctifies the murder, OR, enslavement, of non-members of that cult.

And when we see moslems slaughtering fellow moslems, what we [non-moslems] are witnessing is the moslem [perception of their] war against infidels !!

And we are infidels too, in the eyes of moslems.

So it is a pertinent question to ask;

When do the moslems intent to bring their war to us [to our communities] too ?




And what we [the persons who do not understand the motives of REAL moslems] must come to understand, is that there are many, many persons within the moslem community within Australia, who [IF THEY HAD THAT CAPABILITY AND THAT 'OPPORTUNITY'] would detonate car bombs within Australia - so as to slaughter those filthy kuffar/infidels!

[and there are already, many moslems languishing within Australian prisons, persons 'rightly guided' moslems who have been convicted of planning such atrocities - which WERE to be carried out here, in Australia!!]
[view the gallery of 'rightly guided' moslem car bombings, linked at the beginning of this post]



"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


Q.
Why are we [why is our government!] allowing moslems [who are persons who choose to embrace a such philosophy], to come to live among us, within our own Australian communities ?

And again i ask why ?

I am perplexed at the stupidity of our politicians, because these persons [moslems] embrace a philosophy, which teaches moslems [from childhood], that it is 'lawful' nay, it is AN OBLIGATION for [moslems], [when they have the 'opportunity'...] to afflict and to terrorise persons who do not believe as they [moslems] believe !!








THE MOSLEM COMMUNITY - A WICKED and DECEITFUL people....



EXAMPLE #1,

YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4




EXAMPLE #2,

Speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.


Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent:

Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

n.b.
This moslem declared to the broader community that moslems condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.
BUT LATER IT WAS REVEALED, that that moslem omitted to declare that moslems in the UK, DO NOT regard the members of the broader UK community as innocent civilians.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #75 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:55am
 
...
Yusuf Ali



Quote:
Australian 'fought for al-Qaeda'
January 17, 2014

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=942519



When Australian citizen, Yusuf Ali, was initially declared a victim of the internecine conflict [moslems slaughtering other moslems] in Syria, didn't the Australian moslem community claim that this person had gone to Syria as an 'aid worker', so as to help the victims of the conflict ?

And now it emerges [when the Australian moslem community are no longer able to spin, Yusuf Ali, as 'a quiet and a gentle man'], now his friends, and the moslem community, concede that Yusuf Ali had darker motives, for travelling to Syria.

Surprise, surprise,   ....NOT!


Moslems are inveterate LIARS.

It can be demonstrated, that moslems are continually, and intentionally;
1/ misrepresenting ISLAM to us [who are not moslems],
2/ misrepresenting themselves to us [who are not moslems],
3/ and misrepresenting the 'character' of their community to us [who are not moslems].

Q.
Why so ?

A.
Moslems are inveterate LIARS, because moslems are persons who are enthralled by ISLAM.






What is ISLAM ???

Quote:

In a modern world sense, ISLAM can be defined, essentially, as a vicious fascist political philosophy.

ISLAM is political philosophy which [it can be demonstrated!] uses common age-old political 'mechanisms' [like lying, deception, intimidation, and extreme violence], in seeking to pursue its [ISLAM's] political aims.

And in the area of 'deception', where moslems are resident in Western nations, moslems are using their community 'status', as members of a religion, as a shield [and as a cloak] which moslems cynically use, to protect themselves [and their community], from legitimate scrutiny and legitimate censure by outside bodies and individuals.





ISLAM is an extremely deceitful and extremely violent political philosophy,
.....which is masquerading as a justice based religion.


ISLAM, and its practise in Australia, should be proscribed [banned] by law, imo.

But i'm not holding my breath.






And what is a 'moslem' ???

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


Dictionary;
terrorist = = a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.





Why would any thinking, reasonable person, wish to associate themselves with a vile, and violent and deceitful philosophy like ISLAM ?



ISLAM is a false religion, for a false people.

Stay away from it, spurn it.

ISLAM is not worthy.

Moslems are not worthy.




Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"



Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit






2 Corinthians 6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Proverbs 15:9
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.


Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #76 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:40pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:55am:


Moslems are inveterate LIARS.


It can be demonstrated, that moslems are continually, and intentionally;
1/ misrepresenting ISLAM to us [who are not moslems],
2/ misrepresenting themselves to us [who are not moslems],
3/ and misrepresenting the 'character' of their community to us [who are not moslems].




Lying for Allah, and lying for ISLAM, so as to promote ISLAM and its interests = = 'good works' for the moslem.

Every act, which helps ISLAM to defeat the infidel = = 'good works' for the moslem.




a good one.....

Taqiyya and Tawriya: how muslims deceive the infidels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfxbHLPomAE


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #77 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:55pm
 
Yadda, for someone who claims that Muslims are allowed to lie to non-believers, you sure do it a lot.  I have explained to you now many times that taqiyya means a Muslim can hide their faith in order to protect themself, which is hardly a bad thing.

Look up what the Koran actually says in reference to the practice and you will see it is nothing like what you repeatedly say.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #78 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:27pm
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:55pm:
Yadda, for someone who claims that Muslims are allowed to lie to non-believers, you sure do it a lot.  I have explained to you now many times that taqiyya means a Muslim can hide their faith in order to protect themself, which is hardly a bad thing.

Look up what the Koran actually says in reference to the practice and you will see it is nothing like what you repeatedly say.





Quote:
taqiyya means a Muslim can hide their faith in order to protect themself


That is only a half-truth Stratos.

But i think that you know that.





Stratos,

You are such a valuable useful idiot for ISLAMISTS.

Such a useful disseminator, of moslem lies and deceit.

And the sad fact is that you do not care one iota, that you are a disseminator of moslem lies and deceit.


Why is that Stratos ?

There is an interest that you are protecting.

But it is an interest that you will never disclose here.

Why is that Stratos ?














Yadda wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:55am:


Moslems are inveterate LIARS.


It can be demonstrated, that moslems are continually, and intentionally;
1/ misrepresenting ISLAM to us [who are not moslems],
2/ misrepresenting themselves to us [who are not moslems],
3/ and misrepresenting the 'character' of their community to us [who are not moslems].









ONE EXAMPLE [the next item, below], of a truth which Stratos resolutely refuses to acknowledge and confront.

[And why is that so ?]



Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece



Why so ?

Q.
Why does Stratos emphatically refuse to acknowledge and confront the [clearly apparent] wickedness and lies of moslems ?

A.
In defending the wickedness and the lying of moslems, there is an interest that Stratos is protecting.

But it is an interest that Stratos will never disclose to us here on OzPol.








Stratos, you are just a very insincere and untrustworthy person, imo.

You should convert.

You would be right 'at home', amongst the 'brothers'.

You already have the most important characteristics, of a good moslem, imo.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #79 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:31pm
 
Yadda - I would argue that Syria is not an example of Muslims killing Muslims.

Whilst it is the case that both sides are Muslim - its the same as saying in Northern Ireland the IRA fighting the UFF is Christians murdering Christians.

It's more a case of an utter fruitcake desperately clinging to power because he knows when/if he falls he will end up like Mr Gadaffi, shot in the head and paraded on the front of a jeep through the streets.

Assad doesn't care if the opponents are Jewish, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist - he cares that they are rebels and opponents and want him dead.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #80 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:49pm
 
016.106
YUSUFALI: Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

That is the passage that the doctrine of taqiyya is based on.  Tell me where it says you can say whatever the hell you want.

Yadda wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:27pm:
Why does Stratos emphatically refuse to acknowledge and confront the [clearly apparent] wickedness and lies of moslems ?


Because I've never met an extremist Muslim.  I know they are out there sure, but frankly lately it's been the actions of yourself and Pete who worry me far more, who use their religion as justification to murder babies.  So lets have a quick look at the religious people who post here:

You (christian):  Believe killing babies and genocide is OK under certain circumstances.
Pete (christian):  Believe killing babies is OK under certain circumstances.
Gandalf (muslim):  Does not believe killing babies is OK under certain circumstances.

I absolutely condemn anyone who would use their religion for evil, and there are Muslims who do this.  You will never hear me defend them.  What I don't like is people who would make wild assumption on two and a half billion people and judge them based on their choice of religion, a religion which the majority practice peacefully.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #81 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:49pm:
016.106
YUSUFALI: Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

That is the passage that the doctrine of taqiyya is based on.

Tell me where it says you can say whatever the hell you want.




e.g.
Quote:
July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php












Quote:

Yadda wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:27pm:
Why does Stratos emphatically refuse to acknowledge and confront the [clearly apparent] wickedness and lies of moslems ?


Because I've never met an extremist Muslim.  I know they are out there sure, but frankly lately it's been the actions of yourself and Pete who worry me far more, who use their religion as justification to murder babies.  So lets have a quick look at the religious people who post here:

You (christian):  Believe killing babies and genocide is OK under certain circumstances.
Pete (christian):  Believe killing babies is OK under certain circumstances.
Gandalf (muslim):  Does not believe killing babies is OK under certain circumstances.

I absolutely condemn anyone who would use their religion for evil, and there are Muslims who do this.  You will never hear me defend them.  What I don't like is people who would make wild assumption on two and a half billion people and judge them based on their choice of religion, a religion which the majority practice peacefully.



You prefer moslems, to Christians, because the moslems which you have contact with [publicly, openly] decry wrongdoing ?

And moslems can't lie to you [about their real intents and their real motives] ?          Cheesy




does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
freediver wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 1:06pm:
Quote:
[quote].....normal muslims are peaceful and dont want to do the stuff you are saying.


......Even when Abu says he believes in the death penalty for apostasy and destroying freedom and democracy yuou refuse to believe it. All he has to do is point out his impotence to achieve his goals and you take this to mean they are not his goals. I have never seen anyone so easy to fool.








freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent?









I do not believe the 'stance' which you are presenting here, Stratos.

You are defending moslems, for a reason which you have not disclosed, imo.

IMO, you are a very deceitful person.

That is my opinion of you.




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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #82 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:19am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:49pm:
016.106
YUSUFALI: Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

That is the passage that the doctrine of taqiyya is based on.  Tell me where it says you can say whatever the hell you want.


Want to answer that this time Yadda?   And not with the ramblings of some radical?

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am:
You prefer moslems, to Christians, because the moslems which you have contact with [publicly, openly] decry wrongdoing ?


Well why not.  Also conveniently avoiding the fact you (and Pete) support baby killing in certain circumstances.

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am:
And moslems can't lie to you [about their real intents and their real motives] ?         


According to scripture on taqiyya, no.

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am:
IMO, you are a very deceitful person.


Says the guy who supports baby killing and genocide lol
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #83 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 8:18am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 17th, 2014 at 11:31pm:
Yadda - I would argue that Syria is not an example of Muslims killing Muslims.

Whilst it is the case that both sides are Muslim - its the same as saying in Northern Ireland the IRA fighting the UFF is Christians murdering Christians.

It's more a case of an utter fruitcake desperately clinging to power because he knows when/if he falls he will end up like Mr Gadaffi, shot in the head and paraded on the front of a jeep through the streets.

Assad doesn't care if the opponents are Jewish, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist - he cares that they are rebels and opponents and want him dead.


One of the most sensible posts ive seen off you in a long time.

Assad will destroy his whole country before he loses power and will kill any human being just to do it.

Assads dad slaughtered 30-40 thousand  people in the 70's, I guess the population is rising up and trying to stop his son aswell.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #84 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:19am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:19am:
......you (and Pete) support baby killing in certain circumstances.



Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!







Quote:

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am:
IMO, you are a very deceitful person.


Says the guy who supports baby killing and genocide lol





Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!







Hey folks, we don't have to address any of Yadda's arguments in his posts any more, coz,
Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!



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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #85 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:30am
 



Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!



BUT THESE FOLKS [encouraging infants to be combatants and sucicide bombers] ARE OK, COZ, THEY ARE POOR, POOR MOSLEMS;
Please close the Islam forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382389044/120#120



"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb.






More moslem justification for the slaughter of children, during "Jihad operations"....

Quote:
There Can Be No End to Jihad'

Islamist Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in an exclusive interview, discusses the rationale for 9/11, the Christians he most respects, and the Jesus he defends.
posted 11/05/2007
....Any weapons are legitimate in jihad. Even animals may be used as "suicide bombers"! It is not restricted by target—even Muslims or children, if used by the enemy as human shields, can be killed.
....Killing women and children never was and never will be part of the jihad in Islam, whether that be the women or children of the Muslims or non-Muslims. So if Chechen mujahedeen killed women and children in Beslan, I would condemn it. The children of non-Muslims, such as those at Beslan, who die in such circumstances go to Paradise.
....Women and children [i.e. boys under 15] or Muslims are not legitimate targets—nor are any noncombatants [clergy, disabled, insane, elderly, etc.]. Not even Israeli children or women, unless they serve in the military, which most do, or live in properties taken from dispossessed Palestinians (Muslim or Christian), which virtually all do.
However, if children are killed, the fault lies with the adult occupiers who brought them into a battlefield situation.


.....quoting a 'peace loving' moslem cleric, explaining that it is the non-moslems who are always to blame, when non-moslem children [i.e. Jewish children in occupied 'Palestinian'] are killed in "Jihad operations" with moslems.

Google;
"There Can Be No End to Jihad"








i.e.
SO, ACCORDING TO THE DUPLICITY OF MOSLEM PROPAGANDA....

If those who resist ISLAMISTS inadvertently kill innocents  = = "THEY, ARE MURDERERS OF INNOCENTS"

But if ISLAMISTS kill innocents  = = IT IS THE FAULT OF INFIDELS, BECAUSE THEY ARE BRINGING INNOCENTS INTO AN ENVIRONMENT OF CONFLICT [.....even when ISLAMISTS intentionally, or carelessly cause the deaths of those innocents]


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #86 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:55am
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:19am:
Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:19am:
......you (and Pete) support baby killing in certain circumstances.



Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!







Quote:

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 12:41am:
IMO, you are a very deceitful person.


Says the guy who supports baby killing and genocide lol





Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!







Hey folks, we don't have to address any of Yadda's arguments in his posts any more, coz,
Yadda, is a baby killer!       Yadda, is a baby killer!






Yadda,can u repeat that again?

Are you a baby killer?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #87 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:57am
 
What are you getting at Yadda, that your beliefs are just as bad as those of extremists Muslims?

Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:19am:
Hey folks, we don't have to address any of Yadda's arguments in his posts any more, coz,
Yadda, is a baby killer!


No you aren't (as far as I know).  But you have previously on several occasions defended the genocides commited in the name of God as they occur in the Bible.  Do you deny this?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #88 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:16pm
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:57am:

What are you getting at Yadda,

that your beliefs are just as bad as those of extremists Muslims?


Yadda wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:19am:
Hey folks, we don't have to address any of Yadda's arguments in his posts any more, coz,
Yadda, is a baby killer!


No you aren't (as far as I know).  But you have previously on several occasions defended the genocides commited in the name of God as they occur in the Bible.  Do you deny this?




Where does the truth lay ?





A few more examples of ISLAM's war of lies, and it is a war that is being waged by moslems, against all of 'unbelieving' mankind....


Hamas' Claims - True or False ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSuWFbiYGM


Taqiyya and Tawriya: how muslims deceive the infidels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfxbHLPomAE


Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0



Those among us, who advocate for moslems, are standing 'shoulder to shoulder' with liars and murderers.

Yet moslems claim that they represent a force for peace and truth in the world - ISLAM.

Where is the truth ?



Based upon life experience and our own discernment, we all make our own choices in this life.

And it will be, as a consequences of our choices in this life, that [in 'the end'] we ourselves, are defining who we really are.

Some of us are not sorry, for our poor choices, and in that, many of us refuse to turn away from making more poor choices.



The circumstance and the 'end' which prideful mankind will come to;

Psalms 7:15
He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.




ISLAM - THREE THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OzxiHfWvBGw


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #89 - Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:28pm
 
Lol Yadda, did you think that would distract me from the fact you clearly ignored this part?

Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:57am:
But you have previously on several occasions defended the genocides commited in the name of God as they occur in the Bible.  Do you deny this?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #90 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
Lol Yadda, did you think that would distract me from the fact you clearly ignored this part?

Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:57am:
But you have previously on several occasions defended the genocides commited in the name of God as they occur in the Bible.  Do you deny this?





Psalms 106:34
They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
35  But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36  And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37  Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38  And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.


Stratos,

I don't defend genocide, nor murder.

And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.

i.e.
The wicked - those people who commit genocide and murder, who even murder their own children.




Stratos,

By your choices, you want murderers to live among us.

You would facilitate [more] murder, with your tolerance of murderers, and other criminals.

God's way is to remove ourselves from the 'company' of murderers, and other criminals - OR - to remove murderers, and other criminals from our society.




Stratos,

People like yourself are facilitating murder, genocide, and other serious crimes.

Why so ?

Because people like yourself are facilitating, and tolerating LAWLESSNESS in men, and in the societies of men.

You, and many people like you, have been 'brainwashed' to believe, that your tolerance of great evil, is a virtue.

Oh yes, tolerance of great evil, is a virtue!      Tongue

NOT!!!








Quote:

Mild mannered -
"We will govern for all Egyptians"
- Mohamed Morsi -
Ex-President of Egypt


"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg





"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb.








"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Karl Popper


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann




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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #91 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #92 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 11:31am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?


No Gandalf it's OK.  Killing babies is mercy under certain circumstances apparently
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #93 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:28pm
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?







gandalf,

You are a moslem.
You are a hypocrite.
But i repeat myself.



"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Golda Meir


...
Please close the Islam forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382389044/120#120









gandalf,

You are a moslem [a person who endorses 'religious' murder].
You are a person who endorses ISLAM's societal tenets, and ISLAM's religious laws.
But i repeat myself.


Quote:
There Can Be No End to Jihad'

Islamist Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in an exclusive interview, discusses the rationale for 9/11, the Christians he most respects, and the Jesus he defends.
posted 11/05/2007
....Any weapons are legitimate in jihad. Even animals may be used as "suicide bombers"! It is not restricted by target—even Muslims or children, if used by the enemy as human shields, can be killed.
....Killing women and children never was and never will be part of the jihad in Islam, whether that be the women or children of the Muslims or non-Muslims. So if Chechen mujahedeen killed women and children in Beslan, I would condemn it. The children of non-Muslims, such as those at Beslan, who die in such circumstances go to Paradise.
....Women and children [i.e. boys under 15] or Muslims are not legitimate targets—nor are any noncombatants [clergy, disabled, insane, elderly, etc.]. Not even Israeli children or women, unless they serve in the military, which most do, or live in properties taken from dispossessed Palestinians (Muslim or Christian), which virtually all do.
However, if children are killed, the fault lies with the adult occupiers who brought them into a battlefield situation.


.....quoting a 'peace loving' moslem cleric, explaining that it is the non-moslems who are always to blame, when non-moslem children [i.e. Jewish children in occupied 'Palestinian'] are killed in "Jihad operations" with moslems.

Google;
"There Can Be No End to Jihad"



<-------- These people, moslems, now live among us.

They are already leaving their safe place, their sanctuary, Australia, to return to their own homelands [e.g. Somalia and Syria] so as to participate in the butchery of their enemies, safe in the knowledge that if circumstances turn against them they can now quickly return, unhindered, to their place of sanctuary.

People like Stratos are culpable, for the crimes which moslems commit, in the name of ISLAM.

People like Stratos have blood on their hands, as surely as if they themselves had cut someone's throat themselves, imo.

Why so.

Because they know.

Because people like Stratos know what, ISLAM endorses and encourages.

Because they know that a moslem is a follower of ISLAM.

And yet, people like Stratos pretend that their tolerance OF WHAT MOSLEMS ARE, is a virtue [i.e. moslems = = unapologetic followers of ISLAM].

People like Stratos pretend that their tolerance of persons who promote religious murder [as a virtue], is a virtue too.

People like Stratos are corrupted human beings, imo.




"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


Sanctified MURDER.







Psalms 106:34
They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
35  But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36  And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37  Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38  And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.


...

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #94 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:49pm
 
You did not answer the question Y.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #95 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:51pm
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:49pm:
You did not answer the question Y.


Yeah.  I noticed that.  proabably because he is trying to distance himself from his actual belief that killing babies can be justified.

Nice bit of taqiyya going on there Yadda.  Maybe other religions have a doctrine of deceit too?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #96 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:28pm:
People like Stratos are corrupted human beings, imo.


Not corrupted enough to make excuses for genocide and infanticide like you and Pete.  hate to think what would have to happen to make me able to justify that kind of thing
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #97 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm
 
Just to clarify, the question of whether God Himself has power over all beings and can at any time take any life away at any time - is *NOT* the issue.

The issue is the idea that God would command his followers to carry out His wrath/justice for Him.

Why would God "condition" his followers to become monsters? Why would God compel someone to go through the trauma of hacking to death a terrified woman and her children? What sort of society does God envisage for his people - a mob of brutal baby killers? Or a compassionate people with an acute sense of justice and morality?

It just doesn't add up.

Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #98 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 3:49pm
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm:
Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf


A good read.  Thanks for that
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #99 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm:
Just to clarify, the question of whether God Himself has power over all beings and can at any time take any life away at any time - is *NOT* the issue.

The issue is the idea that God would command his followers to carry out His wrath/justice for Him.

Why would God "condition" his followers to become monsters? Why would God compel someone to go through the trauma of hacking to death a terrified woman and her children? What sort of society does God envisage for his people - a mob of brutal baby killers? Or a compassionate people with an acute sense of justice and morality?

It just doesn't add up.

Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf




gandalf,

Thank you for the link.




2014-Jan-21  Tue 4:39 am

gandalf,

I'm reading;
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf

Wesley Morriston
Did God Command Genocide?
A Chang  h Bibica Inani



gandalf,

Do you have a link to a quotable copy of that article ?

It is going to be cumbersome to critique the argument made in this article, if i can't copy parts of what it says, e.g.;

......No doubt the autho?(?) of Deute?onomy
believed
thatGod had commanded a genocidal attack on the inhabitant? of the P?omi?edLand. But that i? not what a pe?fectly good God would do. so if we believethat God i?, and ha? alway? been, pe?fectly good, why ?houldn’t we ?implyconclude that the human autho?(?) of Deute?onomy we?e mi?taken?He?e i? a mo?e ca?eful fo?mulation of the a?gument that I wi?h to di?-cu??.(1) God exi?t? and i? mo?ally pe?fect.(2) so God would not command one nation to exte?minate the peopleof anothe?
unless He had a morally suf?cient reason for doing so
.(3) Acco?ding to va?iou? OT text?, God ?ometime? commanded the I?-?aelite? to exte?minate the people of othe? nation?.(4) It i? highly
unlikely
that God had a morally suf?cient reason for is
-?uing the?e alleged command?.(5) so it i? highly
unlikely
that eve?ything eve?y book of the OT ?ay?about God i? t?ue.I believe that thi? a?gument con?titute? quite a ?t?ong
prima facie
ca?eagain?t ine??ancy. Unle?? a bette? a?gument can be found fo? ?ejecting it?conclu?ion, then anyone who think? that God i? pe?fectly good ?hould ac-knowledge that the?e a?e mi?take? in ?ome of the book? of the OT.

Few Ch?i?tian? would have any doubt about p?emi?e (1), and I think nea?ly all would accept the move f?om (1) to (2). If God i? mo?ally pe?fect,then He mu?t be pe?fectly ju?t in Hi? dealing? with all c?eated pe??on?. Hemu?t al?o love them, de?i?ing what i? be?t fo? each of them. We can be ?u?ethat He would not command a genocidal attack unle?? He had ove??iding?ea?on? fo? doing ?o—?ea?on? that a?e compatible with Hi? pe?fect ju?ticeand love.



+++

Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy,....

Jeremiah 9:24
.....I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Deuteronomy 7:1
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2  And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:









...
That image is not depicting a child, and a group of men.
That image is depicting a polluted and defiled land.
That image is depicting moral monsters [who are inhabiting God's holy land].
They are moral monsters which my God is justified to destroy as he chooses, both here, and in the spirit realm.



n.b.
Numbers 35:33
So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.


gandalf,

People like you, hate God.

I love God.
And i love God's righteousness.
And that is the difference between men.







"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Golda Meir








gandalf,

Men need to get right with God.

But most men think that the 'fault' which we see, lays with God, and so they remain in rebellion.




2 Chronicles 19:1
And Jehoshaphat the king of Judah returned to his house in peace to Jerusalem.
2  And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.


Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


Back later, with a fuller reply.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #100 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:30am
 
So, about that question you've been asked about 10 times now then?
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #101 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am
 
Yadda the PDF comes out fine for me. Suggest you check your browser's pdf plugin, otherwise you can always download it and view it through adobe reader.

Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am:
Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2


Who said anything about a contradiction? Thats not the point at all. As I keep saying, I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes - thats his prerogative. But usually its through earthquakes and floods - not by ordering his people to commit evil.

And by "evil" I don't mean killing evil men who commit evil deeds - so don't bother bringing up that strawman again.

By "evil" I mean slaughtering children and innocents. I believe "all who breath" was the exact phrase we find in the OT right?

The idea being that the Israelites "smite" these evil tribes, "utterly destroy" them, and establish a moral, pure God-fearing nation in its place. Yes?

Thus the essense of God's message as relayed in the OT is:
"Go forth and slaughter babies - so that you may become a righteous people and spread your righteousness across the land"

Does that make sense to you Yadda? What do you think it does to a man to have to hack to death a terrified woman and her helpless children? Does it instil the fear of God in him? Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?

Or if I can put it this way: the premise of my argument is 1. that man killing innocent children (and innocent men and women), is an entirely evil act - based on every ethical standard defined by Jesus and the NT. 2. God would never command his followers to commit an evil act - not for the sake of the victim (who will of course experience God's mercy), but for the sake of the perpetrators soul. It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #102 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 10:41am
 
quick gandalf ......... rush to defend the 'rights' of some muzzies to murder others.
At least, deflect the topic.



oh, you already have.
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Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #103 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:28pm
 
Some extracts below
Quote:
Book of Deuteronomy

The Book of Deuteronomy is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible, and of the Jewish Torah/Pentateuch.

The book consists of three sermons or speeches delivered to the Israelites by Moses on the plains of Moab, shortly before they enter the Promised Land. The first sermon recapitulates the forty years of wilderness wanderings which have led to this moment, and ends with an exhortation to observe the law (or teachings), later referred to as the Law of Moses;

While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BC) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century.


So it appears the Jews accept Moses as the author of Deuteronomy.

From the Bible: Quote:
Deuteronomy 1:1 These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness,


It is also clear that Christians are told Moses was the author of Deuteronomy.

Moses preached what he thought God wanted him to say, inspired by his faith and inner spiritualness

It all took place about 3500 years ago.

There are two things for believers today:

First: did God actually want babies slaughtered? Or was Moses exagerating to the utmost (as he believed), the method of defeating an enemy nation?

I would say to Christians read:
Quote:
Luke 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luke 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village

1John 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


3500 years ago civilization was barbaric, there would no doubt have been many people who believed that the preaching to kill infants was the right spirit, there would also have been people against it.

Today in 2014 with the benefit of my evolving civilization behind me, and an inbuilt revulsion at the thought of that deed, I can safely say I don't agree with that spiritual part of the words of Moses.

Secondly it has absolutely nothing to do with any Christian today 2014: 
Quote:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be

justified
in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


So it is very obvious that today in 2014 the Law of Moses has been superceded by faith in Christ.

Therefore I still firmly believe that islam is the most evil belief system, the qur'an is acknowledged as the actual word of allah.

muslims right now around the globe, are slaughtering innocent men, women and children as a sacred fulfillment of the commands of allah, preached by muhammad, recorded in the qur'an, all synchronized by islam.

muslims would commit genocide (have done in the past) to establish islam as the one and only belief in the world. Knowing they are fully justified by islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #104 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 3:59pm
 
...
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #105 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:07am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am:
Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2


Who said anything about a contradiction? Thats not the point at all. As I keep saying, I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes - thats his prerogative. But usually its through earthquakes and floods - not by ordering his people to commit evil.

And by "evil" I don't mean killing evil men who commit evil deeds - so don't bother bringing up that strawman again.

By "evil" I mean slaughtering children and innocents. I believe "all who breath" was the exact phrase we find in the OT right?

The idea being that the Israelites "smite" these evil tribes, "utterly destroy" them, and establish a moral, pure God-fearing nation in its place. Yes?




No.

That is a completely incorrect proposition, gandalf.

Scripture instructs us, that the moral crimes [murders and other crimes] committed by the people of those seven nations, had defiled the land upon which they lived.

So God intended that the people of those nations be destroyed, SO THAT THE LAND WOULD BE CLEANSED.

as per;

Genesis 4:10
...the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Numbers 35:33
...for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it,...



So yes, God did command the Israelites to "utterly destroy" those seven nations.

But the purpose in "utterly destroying" those seven nations [cited Deuteronomy 7:1-2], WAS, SOLELY TO CLEANSE THE LAND.

But cleansing the land could not, make the Israelites a 'moral' or righteous, or 'God-fearing' people!!

Because smiting evil doers, does NOT make the 'smiters' 'holy', or righteous.



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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #106 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:08am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Thus the essense of God's message as relayed in the OT is:
"Go forth and slaughter babies - so that you may become a righteous people and spread your righteousness across the land"




No.

Again, that is a completely incorrect proposition, gandalf.

You are in serious error, gandalf.

And your words are slandering both God and the ancient Israelites.



"....spread your righteousness across the land"


So what is righteousness, gandalf ?

Easy.

Scripture teaches us, that righteousness in man [in God's eyes] is accomplished, when men seek, and sincerely *try* to obey God's will [and *try* to obey God's laws].

[....and in saying that, that does NOT mean that i am debasing Jesus sacrifice.      because i acknowledge, and i know, that i am not cleansed of my wrongdoing, except by my acceptance of God's righteousness, by, accepting Jesus sacrifice.]

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

[And in Psalms 1, the Psalmist, is speaking about 'the law of the LORD' in the books of Moses!]

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.



What is righteousness ?

What was Jesus message ?
#1, Love God.            Matthew 22:36-37
#2, Obey God's !!laws!!, study the scriptures.            Matthew 19:16-19, John 14:15-21, Luke 24:45
#3, Love your fellow man.            Matthew 22:39, Leviticus 19:18


Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


How does a man love God ?

Are Christians under grace, or under the law....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1369781476/48#48



1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.


gandalf,

Q.
Why don't moslems know those things ???
Why do moslems refuse to seek and accept, God's righteousness ???

A.
Because moslems are wilfully following a false prophet.

And that is why moslems [in their 'lawful' murders] are moral monsters, who portray themselves as the righteous and 'the rightly guided' judges of men, in slaughtering those who resist the will of,
...moslems.

e.g.
Moslems who are fighting and killing moslems! in Syria, and moslems who go to Syria to fight and kill other moslems!, are 'offering sacrifices unto devils' [Leviticus 17:7].

e.g.
When moslems shout out;
"Allah akbar! Allah akbar!",
...after killing someone who is *their* enemy, moslems are 'offering sacrifices unto devils' [Leviticus 17:7].!!

You are so, so, far from truth, gandalf.



gandalf,

It is the hot place for the moslem,
....for every single moslem.

Why so ?

Because moslems [followers of ISLAM] are unclean [i.e. they are filthy, and un-redeemed, un-REPENTENT] spirits, who demonstrate their hatred of God, by refusing to accept God's righteousness.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #107 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:09am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Does that make sense to you Yadda? What do you think it does to a man to have to hack to death a terrified woman and her helpless children? Does it instil the fear of God in him? Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?





gandalf,

You ask, does obeying God, and enacting judgement [on behalf of God] make a man righteous ?

'Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?'


No, it does not.



gandalf,

God's word, the bible, makes it clear that blood-spilling judgement [even enacted on behalf of God] is NOT [necessarily] associated with righteousness [in a man].

In the 1st instance, judgement [against the wicked], and in the 2nd instance, the righteousness of the righteous, are completely separate issues.


Ah then, but what about God's command to the ancient Israelites to destroy all the people of nations, as per Deuteronomy 7:1-2 ?

Weren't the ancient Israelites justified, in obeying God's command ?

Yes the ancient Israelites were justified.

But God's law makes it clear that those ancient Israelites, who would have exacted those judgements [commanded by God], would been [would still have made themselves] unclean, in God's eyes.



And they would have had to cleanse themselves, before they could be welcomed back into the congregation of the Israelites.

Leviticus 5:1-3

Numbers 19:11, 16, 19


And that nature of personal 'uncleanliness' [in the act of killing], is also demonstrated by God [in the bible], in the example of King David.

e.g.
During his life, King David had 'slaughtered' many of the men of surrounding nations who were troubling Israel and her people.

And because King David had killed so many men, God disallowed David from building God's temple;

1 Chronicles 22:7
And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God:
8  But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.


1 Chronicles 28:3
But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.


So, killing people, even righteously, makes us spiritually unclean.



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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #108 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Or if I can put it this way: the premise of my argument is 1. that man killing innocent children (and innocent men and women), is an entirely evil act - based on every ethical standard defined by Jesus and the NT. 2. God would never command his followers to commit an evil act - not for the sake of the victim (who will of course experience God's mercy), but for the sake of the perpetrators soul. It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.





Leviticus 24:17
And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.


Yes, murder is a crime.

But you are in serious error, gandalf.

'It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.'


No, it does not.

Obeying God does not destroy a man's soul, and obeying God would not have 'injured' the souls of ancient Israelites.

God is able to completely heal his servants.


Psalms 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.



gandalf,

Earlier in post #101 you said;

"I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes..."


and then;

"God would never command his followers to commit an evil act..."




Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


Deuteronomy 7:1
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2  And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:


Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it,...



Genesis 18:20
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22  And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23  And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #109 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:26am
 
Thank you Y for once responding without irrelevant images of suicide bombers.

Yadda wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am:
Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children and bring them up as proper God-fearing people?

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #110 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:26am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am:
Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children
and bring them up as proper God-fearing people
?



gandalf,

Wasn't that the proper task, of their own parents ???


...






gandalf said....
Quote:

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.





Luke 19:26
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


gandalf,

It is your will, to think that.

And it is your will, to be in rebellion [against God's will].


Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.


Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


Psalms 106:1
Praise ye the LORD. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Yes, the mercy of my God, 'endureth for ever'.





gandalf,

I believe that the vast majority of the Jewish people will be redeemed by my God.

But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.

And that knowledge pleases satisfies me gandalf.

It is the purpose of my God,
to separate that which is precious, from that which is vile, within his creation.

And because i hate what i see every day in this world, ...it satisfies me to know, that my God will choose to separate that which is precious [in his eyes], from that which is vile [in his eyes].


Psalms 146:1
Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.


Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.


Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


The real martyrs of God....
Revelation 6:10
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


Dictionary;
martyr = = a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs.





But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.

Hallelujah!

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


And the fate of every single moslem, is to abide in Allah's 'paradise'.

Hot place.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #111 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:44pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.


Hallelujah!

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.






Not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.





In the Koran, Allah declares that;

Jesus did not die.

And that Jesus was not crucified.

SIGHTED IN THE KORAN...
Koran 4.157
v. 157 - 159

e.g.
Further, Allah declares that Jesus is not God's son [i.e. that Jesus is not divine]...

"To Him [Allah] is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort?....."
Koran 6.101


In the Koran, Allah curses Christians [...for believing that Jesus is one with God]...

".....Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"
Koran 9.30

"He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion......"
Koran 25.002

" "Allah has begotten children"? but they are liars! "
Koran 37.152

see also,
Koran 39.4
Koran 72.3



+++


John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


1 John 2:22
....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5  And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.


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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #112 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:25pm
 
....The USA up to its old tricks again - funding terrorist organisations such as Al Qaeda. According to John Kerry (not his real name) there is the GOOD Al Qaeda and the BAD Al Qaeda in the world today.

There are always different takes on what the western media portrays on your corporatized idiot box. Oh the webs of deceit that the western world swims in. Its hard to see the real sunset sometimes.

Sometimes there are Jewish Christian Priests like Brother Nethanael who look at things differently

enjoy!




freediver - sit back and watch them froth at the mouth and go nuts - OH THE OUTRAGE - the horror, the contempt, Oh the pain of the truth
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #113 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm:
And it is your will, to be in rebellion [against God's will].


Thanks Yadda, good that we are back to preaching mode. Silly me to think we could actually have a serious discussion about this.

Though I would like to ask, is questioning the detail of the OT actually to be in "rebellion against God's will"? I'm actually questioning whether that particular part actually *IS* God's will. I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth - not like, well the actual gospel. Do you think its possible that the author stated "kill all who breathe" - when in fact the *ACTUAL* command was something like 'kill the wrongdoers, and spare the innocents"?

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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #114 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:46pm
 
gandalf wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm:
I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth


That doesn't sound like something yadda would say.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #115 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:23am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
gandalf wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm:
I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth


That doesn't sound like something yadda would say.






Perhaps gandalf was thinking of something another poster, 'moses', said ?

moses wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:28pm:

.....Moses preached what he thought God wanted him to say, inspired by his faith and inner spiritualness

It all took place about 3500 years ago.

There are two things for believers today:

First: did God actually want babies slaughtered? Or was Moses exagerating to the utmost (as he believed), the method of defeating an enemy nation?







gandalf,

For my part, i may be in error.

But my God is not a liar.

And personally, i trust in the fidelity of the books of the Old Testament [the Jewish bible].


Dictionary;
fidelity = =
1 continuing loyalty to a person, cause, or belief.
2 the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced.






And the New Testament it clear, that Jesus was confident in the fidelity of the Old Testament, and in the writings of Moses, in the Old Testament.


John 10:35
...the scripture cannot be broken;


Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Luke 24:36
And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40  And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43  And he took it, and did eat before them.
44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48  And ye are witnesses of these things.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #116 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 6:00pm
 

It seems that every day, at the moment,
we see news reports of moslems 'someone', violating truces, and targeting civilians, and murdering and bombing civilians in Syria.

[everyone who is a causality of this conflict in Syria seems to be a 'civilian' - what i want to know is where are all of the brave ISLAMIC warriors ? - and don't any of the brave ISLAMIC warriors become casualties of this conflict ? - i do remember hearing something about a couple of weeks ago, about an Australia 'aid worker' and his Australian wife who went to Syria, who both perished - it was a tragedy. ]

It is being reported, that even United Nations relief columns carrying aid to starving Syrian communities are being targeted by moslems, 'rightly guided' moslem combatants, CORRECTION; some 'nondescript' persons in possession of weapons.

Women and girls being raped, children being targeted, and civilians being murdered.

How can this be ?

Don't Allah's 'rightly guided' moslems, know how to conduct Allah's just war ???




"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110


+++






Quote:
gandalf wrote on Nov 28th, 2012 at 10:05am:

.......
2. That "Muslims" (collective) insist on "mass slaughter" whenever there is a change in government has no basis in fact.




3. That the Palestinians attempted their own holocaust has no basis in fact.

4. that the arab wars against the state of Israel was merely a case of muslims following Mohammad's lead - has no basis in fact.

There, I've completely flogged a dead horse I know, but your continued obstinacy has forced my hand. I think its relevant to point these things out given the entire stated purpose of this thread. The point? Well, getting back to the topic, the technicalities of the legality or otherwise of the jewish immigration is, as I pointed out from the start, a non-issue. Abu has only ever argued the term from a universal morality/human rights point of view - and he made that clear when he stated that it was "illegal" only in the sense that it was opposed by the actual people living on the land - and who would be most affected by it.

So after this topic was clearly established as a fundamental issue of basic human rights, you then started pulling out arguments related to why the arabs are not worthy of such human rights - thus the tired old baseless crap - ie muslims lost all claim to human rights after they started trying to kill all jews and instigate their own holocaust. And as if we had any doubt about the reasons for this alleged attempted holocaust, you simply dismiss it with "well they were just following Muhammad's lead". You see you reduce the entire conflict to a simple matter of a group of irrational religious zealots - bent on killing all the jews because their prophet told them to. Thats what I mean by answering bigotry with bigotry. If the purpose of this thread was to set the facts straight (which you claim), then you single handedly destroyed it.





Response to #2;

Yes, it does have a basis in fact!



The DOCTRINALLY established moslem war strategy when overcoming an old regime [and whether it was an 'ill-favoured' moslem regime, or, and infidel regime, it is ALWAYS deemed by the new moslem victors to have been un-ISLAMIC    e.g. Syria today, fighting the rebels, both sides claim to be the 'rightly guided' moslems] is to use terror and violence, to consolidate their gains.

And the Koran itself, and other ISLAMIC 'religious' texts do counsel such a path.


POINT #1,
"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/...

Koran [8:67 above] meaning here, first moslems should beleaguer and slaughter their enemies in the land, to terrorise, to cower them.

And then later, moslems will more easily be able to defeat, and enslave a pliant, fearful enemy people.

In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!

i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.

#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.


POINT #2,
Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."

hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."

hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #117 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:30pm
 
It seems, on the evidence of the last few hundred years, that Islam is the answer only if you are seeking murder, mayhem and destruction-or the peace of the slovenly, stagnant, enervated.

There is no constructive, creative, inspiring energy in Islam. They spent it all in a brief flourish a thousand years ago.

I cannot think of a single Islamic contribution to human wellness in the last several centuries. It seems all blood, anger, animosity, frustration, blaming and seething hatred. It seems to rot the spirit when taken seriously, beyond private pieties.





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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #118 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:07pm
 
Soren wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:30pm:
It seems, on the evidence of the last few hundred years, that

Islam is the answer


only if you are seeking murder, mayhem and destruction-or the peace of the slovenly, stagnant, enervated.

There is no constructive, creative, inspiring energy in Islam. They spent it all in a brief flourish a thousand years ago.

I cannot think of a single Islamic contribution to human wellness in the last several centuries. It seems all blood, anger, animosity, frustration, blaming and seething hatred. It seems to rot the spirit when taken seriously, beyond private pieties.




...
"Would you like to be a servant of evil ?"


....would be the question



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #119 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 12:00pm
 
Gandalf wrote

Quote:
You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children and bring them up as proper God-fearing people?

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.


One could also ask what is the point of :

Quote:
qur'an 47.003: This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.


qur'an 47.004: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.


It seems that amongst the myriad of verses telling muslims to go and kill people, allah shirks the job himself, instead he tells muslims to go and kill people as a test from him, if they die doing it they will be rewarded

I think the world would be far better off if you concentrated on the atrocities committed daily in the name of allah (in 2014), by muslims who are obeying the qur'an to the very letter, than 3,500 year old O.T. verse which is not relevant to today.

The child sex, honour killings, inbreeding, rape, torture and mass murder performed by muslims around the globe today is the real issue.

Why do muslims and their apologists always try to hide from these evil atrocities being committed by muslims today 2014 ?

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