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SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems (Read 24231 times)
Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #105 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:07am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am:
Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2


Who said anything about a contradiction? Thats not the point at all. As I keep saying, I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes - thats his prerogative. But usually its through earthquakes and floods - not by ordering his people to commit evil.

And by "evil" I don't mean killing evil men who commit evil deeds - so don't bother bringing up that strawman again.

By "evil" I mean slaughtering children and innocents. I believe "all who breath" was the exact phrase we find in the OT right?

The idea being that the Israelites "smite" these evil tribes, "utterly destroy" them, and establish a moral, pure God-fearing nation in its place. Yes?




No.

That is a completely incorrect proposition, gandalf.

Scripture instructs us, that the moral crimes [murders and other crimes] committed by the people of those seven nations, had defiled the land upon which they lived.

So God intended that the people of those nations be destroyed, SO THAT THE LAND WOULD BE CLEANSED.

as per;

Genesis 4:10
...the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Numbers 35:33
...for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it,...



So yes, God did command the Israelites to "utterly destroy" those seven nations.

But the purpose in "utterly destroying" those seven nations [cited Deuteronomy 7:1-2], WAS, SOLELY TO CLEANSE THE LAND.

But cleansing the land could not, make the Israelites a 'moral' or righteous, or 'God-fearing' people!!

Because smiting evil doers, does NOT make the 'smiters' 'holy', or righteous.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #106 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:08am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Thus the essense of God's message as relayed in the OT is:
"Go forth and slaughter babies - so that you may become a righteous people and spread your righteousness across the land"




No.

Again, that is a completely incorrect proposition, gandalf.

You are in serious error, gandalf.

And your words are slandering both God and the ancient Israelites.



"....spread your righteousness across the land"


So what is righteousness, gandalf ?

Easy.

Scripture teaches us, that righteousness in man [in God's eyes] is accomplished, when men seek, and sincerely *try* to obey God's will [and *try* to obey God's laws].

[....and in saying that, that does NOT mean that i am debasing Jesus sacrifice.      because i acknowledge, and i know, that i am not cleansed of my wrongdoing, except by my acceptance of God's righteousness, by, accepting Jesus sacrifice.]

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

[And in Psalms 1, the Psalmist, is speaking about 'the law of the LORD' in the books of Moses!]

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.



What is righteousness ?

What was Jesus message ?
#1, Love God.            Matthew 22:36-37
#2, Obey God's !!laws!!, study the scriptures.            Matthew 19:16-19, John 14:15-21, Luke 24:45
#3, Love your fellow man.            Matthew 22:39, Leviticus 19:18


Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


How does a man love God ?

Are Christians under grace, or under the law....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1369781476/48#48



1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.


gandalf,

Q.
Why don't moslems know those things ???
Why do moslems refuse to seek and accept, God's righteousness ???

A.
Because moslems are wilfully following a false prophet.

And that is why moslems [in their 'lawful' murders] are moral monsters, who portray themselves as the righteous and 'the rightly guided' judges of men, in slaughtering those who resist the will of,
...moslems.

e.g.
Moslems who are fighting and killing moslems! in Syria, and moslems who go to Syria to fight and kill other moslems!, are 'offering sacrifices unto devils' [Leviticus 17:7].

e.g.
When moslems shout out;
"Allah akbar! Allah akbar!",
...after killing someone who is *their* enemy, moslems are 'offering sacrifices unto devils' [Leviticus 17:7].!!

You are so, so, far from truth, gandalf.



gandalf,

It is the hot place for the moslem,
....for every single moslem.

Why so ?

Because moslems [followers of ISLAM] are unclean [i.e. they are filthy, and un-redeemed, un-REPENTENT] spirits, who demonstrate their hatred of God, by refusing to accept God's righteousness.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #107 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:09am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Does that make sense to you Yadda? What do you think it does to a man to have to hack to death a terrified woman and her helpless children? Does it instil the fear of God in him? Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?





gandalf,

You ask, does obeying God, and enacting judgement [on behalf of God] make a man righteous ?

'Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?'


No, it does not.



gandalf,

God's word, the bible, makes it clear that blood-spilling judgement [even enacted on behalf of God] is NOT [necessarily] associated with righteousness [in a man].

In the 1st instance, judgement [against the wicked], and in the 2nd instance, the righteousness of the righteous, are completely separate issues.


Ah then, but what about God's command to the ancient Israelites to destroy all the people of nations, as per Deuteronomy 7:1-2 ?

Weren't the ancient Israelites justified, in obeying God's command ?

Yes the ancient Israelites were justified.

But God's law makes it clear that those ancient Israelites, who would have exacted those judgements [commanded by God], would been [would still have made themselves] unclean, in God's eyes.



And they would have had to cleanse themselves, before they could be welcomed back into the congregation of the Israelites.

Leviticus 5:1-3

Numbers 19:11, 16, 19


And that nature of personal 'uncleanliness' [in the act of killing], is also demonstrated by God [in the bible], in the example of King David.

e.g.
During his life, King David had 'slaughtered' many of the men of surrounding nations who were troubling Israel and her people.

And because King David had killed so many men, God disallowed David from building God's temple;

1 Chronicles 22:7
And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God:
8  But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.


1 Chronicles 28:3
But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.


So, killing people, even righteously, makes us spiritually unclean.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #108 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am:

Or if I can put it this way: the premise of my argument is 1. that man killing innocent children (and innocent men and women), is an entirely evil act - based on every ethical standard defined by Jesus and the NT. 2. God would never command his followers to commit an evil act - not for the sake of the victim (who will of course experience God's mercy), but for the sake of the perpetrators soul. It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.





Leviticus 24:17
And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.


Yes, murder is a crime.

But you are in serious error, gandalf.

'It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.'


No, it does not.

Obeying God does not destroy a man's soul, and obeying God would not have 'injured' the souls of ancient Israelites.

God is able to completely heal his servants.


Psalms 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.



gandalf,

Earlier in post #101 you said;

"I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes..."


and then;

"God would never command his followers to commit an evil act..."




Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


Deuteronomy 7:1
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2  And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:


Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25  And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it,...



Genesis 18:20
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22  And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23  And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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polite_gandalf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #109 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:26am
 
Thank you Y for once responding without irrelevant images of suicide bombers.

Yadda wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am:
Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children and bring them up as proper God-fearing people?

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.

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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #110 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:26am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:13am:
Well, if God commanded the ancient Israelites to 'smite them, and utterly destroy them' [those seven nations], isn't it presumptuous of a person who believes in God's inerrancy, and God's justness, to condemn God's judgement against those seven nations ?


You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children
and bring them up as proper God-fearing people
?



gandalf,

Wasn't that the proper task, of their own parents ???


...






gandalf said....
Quote:

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.





Luke 19:26
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


gandalf,

It is your will, to think that.

And it is your will, to be in rebellion [against God's will].


Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.


Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


Psalms 106:1
Praise ye the LORD. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Yes, the mercy of my God, 'endureth for ever'.





gandalf,

I believe that the vast majority of the Jewish people will be redeemed by my God.

But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.

And that knowledge pleases satisfies me gandalf.

It is the purpose of my God,
to separate that which is precious, from that which is vile, within his creation.

And because i hate what i see every day in this world, ...it satisfies me to know, that my God will choose to separate that which is precious [in his eyes], from that which is vile [in his eyes].


Psalms 146:1
Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.


Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.


Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


The real martyrs of God....
Revelation 6:10
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


Dictionary;
martyr = = a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs.





But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.

Hallelujah!

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


And the fate of every single moslem, is to abide in Allah's 'paradise'.

Hot place.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #111 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:44pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

But, not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.


Hallelujah!

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.






Not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.





In the Koran, Allah declares that;

Jesus did not die.

And that Jesus was not crucified.

SIGHTED IN THE KORAN...
Koran 4.157
v. 157 - 159

e.g.
Further, Allah declares that Jesus is not God's son [i.e. that Jesus is not divine]...

"To Him [Allah] is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort?....."
Koran 6.101


In the Koran, Allah curses Christians [...for believing that Jesus is one with God]...

".....Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"
Koran 9.30

"He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion......"
Koran 25.002

" "Allah has begotten children"? but they are liars! "
Koran 37.152

see also,
Koran 39.4
Koran 72.3



+++


John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


1 John 2:22
....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5  And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #112 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:25pm
 
....The USA up to its old tricks again - funding terrorist organisations such as Al Qaeda. According to John Kerry (not his real name) there is the GOOD Al Qaeda and the BAD Al Qaeda in the world today.

There are always different takes on what the western media portrays on your corporatized idiot box. Oh the webs of deceit that the western world swims in. Its hard to see the real sunset sometimes.

Sometimes there are Jewish Christian Priests like Brother Nethanael who look at things differently

enjoy!




freediver - sit back and watch them froth at the mouth and go nuts - OH THE OUTRAGE - the horror, the contempt, Oh the pain of the truth
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #113 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:41pm:
And it is your will, to be in rebellion [against God's will].


Thanks Yadda, good that we are back to preaching mode. Silly me to think we could actually have a serious discussion about this.

Though I would like to ask, is questioning the detail of the OT actually to be in "rebellion against God's will"? I'm actually questioning whether that particular part actually *IS* God's will. I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth - not like, well the actual gospel. Do you think its possible that the author stated "kill all who breathe" - when in fact the *ACTUAL* command was something like 'kill the wrongdoers, and spare the innocents"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #114 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm:
I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth


That doesn't sound like something yadda would say.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #115 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:23am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:42pm:
I seem to remember you explaining once that the OT isn't necessarily gospel truth


That doesn't sound like something yadda would say.






Perhaps gandalf was thinking of something another poster, 'moses', said ?

moses wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:28pm:

.....Moses preached what he thought God wanted him to say, inspired by his faith and inner spiritualness

It all took place about 3500 years ago.

There are two things for believers today:

First: did God actually want babies slaughtered? Or was Moses exagerating to the utmost (as he believed), the method of defeating an enemy nation?







gandalf,

For my part, i may be in error.

But my God is not a liar.

And personally, i trust in the fidelity of the books of the Old Testament [the Jewish bible].


Dictionary;
fidelity = =
1 continuing loyalty to a person, cause, or belief.
2 the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced.






And the New Testament it clear, that Jesus was confident in the fidelity of the Old Testament, and in the writings of Moses, in the Old Testament.


John 10:35
...the scripture cannot be broken;


Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Luke 24:36
And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40  And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43  And he took it, and did eat before them.
44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48  And ye are witnesses of these things.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #116 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 6:00pm
 

It seems that every day, at the moment,
we see news reports of moslems 'someone', violating truces, and targeting civilians, and murdering and bombing civilians in Syria.

[everyone who is a causality of this conflict in Syria seems to be a 'civilian' - what i want to know is where are all of the brave ISLAMIC warriors ? - and don't any of the brave ISLAMIC warriors become casualties of this conflict ? - i do remember hearing something about a couple of weeks ago, about an Australia 'aid worker' and his Australian wife who went to Syria, who both perished - it was a tragedy. ]

It is being reported, that even United Nations relief columns carrying aid to starving Syrian communities are being targeted by moslems, 'rightly guided' moslem combatants, CORRECTION; some 'nondescript' persons in possession of weapons.

Women and girls being raped, children being targeted, and civilians being murdered.

How can this be ?

Don't Allah's 'rightly guided' moslems, know how to conduct Allah's just war ???




"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110


+++






Quote:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28th, 2012 at 10:05am:

.......
2. That "Muslims" (collective) insist on "mass slaughter" whenever there is a change in government has no basis in fact.




3. That the Palestinians attempted their own holocaust has no basis in fact.

4. that the arab wars against the state of Israel was merely a case of muslims following Mohammad's lead - has no basis in fact.

There, I've completely flogged a dead horse I know, but your continued obstinacy has forced my hand. I think its relevant to point these things out given the entire stated purpose of this thread. The point? Well, getting back to the topic, the technicalities of the legality or otherwise of the jewish immigration is, as I pointed out from the start, a non-issue. Abu has only ever argued the term from a universal morality/human rights point of view - and he made that clear when he stated that it was "illegal" only in the sense that it was opposed by the actual people living on the land - and who would be most affected by it.

So after this topic was clearly established as a fundamental issue of basic human rights, you then started pulling out arguments related to why the arabs are not worthy of such human rights - thus the tired old baseless crap - ie muslims lost all claim to human rights after they started trying to kill all jews and instigate their own holocaust. And as if we had any doubt about the reasons for this alleged attempted holocaust, you simply dismiss it with "well they were just following Muhammad's lead". You see you reduce the entire conflict to a simple matter of a group of irrational religious zealots - bent on killing all the jews because their prophet told them to. Thats what I mean by answering bigotry with bigotry. If the purpose of this thread was to set the facts straight (which you claim), then you single handedly destroyed it.





Response to #2;

Yes, it does have a basis in fact!



The DOCTRINALLY established moslem war strategy when overcoming an old regime [and whether it was an 'ill-favoured' moslem regime, or, and infidel regime, it is ALWAYS deemed by the new moslem victors to have been un-ISLAMIC    e.g. Syria today, fighting the rebels, both sides claim to be the 'rightly guided' moslems] is to use terror and violence, to consolidate their gains.

And the Koran itself, and other ISLAMIC 'religious' texts do counsel such a path.


POINT #1,
"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....."

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/...

Koran [8:67 above] meaning here, first moslems should beleaguer and slaughter their enemies in the land, to terrorise, to cower them.

And then later, moslems will more easily be able to defeat, and enslave a pliant, fearful enemy people.

In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!

i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.

#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.


POINT #2,
Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."

hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."

hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Soren
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #117 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:30pm
 
It seems, on the evidence of the last few hundred years, that Islam is the answer only if you are seeking murder, mayhem and destruction-or the peace of the slovenly, stagnant, enervated.

There is no constructive, creative, inspiring energy in Islam. They spent it all in a brief flourish a thousand years ago.

I cannot think of a single Islamic contribution to human wellness in the last several centuries. It seems all blood, anger, animosity, frustration, blaming and seething hatred. It seems to rot the spirit when taken seriously, beyond private pieties.





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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #118 - Feb 14th, 2014 at 10:07pm
 
Soren wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 7:30pm:
It seems, on the evidence of the last few hundred years, that

Islam is the answer


only if you are seeking murder, mayhem and destruction-or the peace of the slovenly, stagnant, enervated.

There is no constructive, creative, inspiring energy in Islam. They spent it all in a brief flourish a thousand years ago.

I cannot think of a single Islamic contribution to human wellness in the last several centuries. It seems all blood, anger, animosity, frustration, blaming and seething hatred. It seems to rot the spirit when taken seriously, beyond private pieties.




...
"Would you like to be a servant of evil ?"


....would be the question



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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moses
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #119 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 12:00pm
 
Gandalf wrote

Quote:
You misunderstand my point.

Anyway, if God really wanted to wipe those 7 tribes from the face of the earth, he could have done it properly in a flood or earthquake (as He had done before). Instead he asks the Israelites to do it for Him - which as it turned out they failed, because subsequent OT chapters warn against intermarrying with the remnants of those tribes.

I suppose it was considered a test of faith or character or something to challenge the Israelites to hack babies to death, but Y even you can agree they failed this test. The tribes remained, and we know from reference in the OT that the tribes continued to spread corruption amongst the Israelites after the (attempted) genocide.

Thus one is left to ponder, what was it all for? The intended purpose of the attempted genocide was to rid the land of the corrupting influence of the God-less people. Yet we know they failed. Is it because some of the Israelites became a big squeamish at the thought of hacking babies to death? Would God blame them for that?

And I just can't help thinking - if the purpose was to get rid of the evil ways of the corrupt men of those tribes, isn't it both more practical, not to mention more ethical to just pick out the guilty men and women - put them to death if necessary, then adopt the uncorrupted children and bring them up as proper God-fearing people?

In short, I think the author who stated "leave none who breath" got it wrong.


One could also ask what is the point of :

Quote:
qur'an 47.003: This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.


qur'an 47.004: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.


It seems that amongst the myriad of verses telling muslims to go and kill people, allah shirks the job himself, instead he tells muslims to go and kill people as a test from him, if they die doing it they will be rewarded

I think the world would be far better off if you concentrated on the atrocities committed daily in the name of allah (in 2014), by muslims who are obeying the qur'an to the very letter, than 3,500 year old O.T. verse which is not relevant to today.

The child sex, honour killings, inbreeding, rape, torture and mass murder performed by muslims around the globe today is the real issue.

Why do muslims and their apologists always try to hide from these evil atrocities being committed by muslims today 2014 ?

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