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SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems (Read 24223 times)
Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #90 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am
 
Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
Lol Yadda, did you think that would distract me from the fact you clearly ignored this part?

Stratos wrote on Jan 18th, 2014 at 11:57am:
But you have previously on several occasions defended the genocides commited in the name of God as they occur in the Bible.  Do you deny this?





Psalms 106:34
They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
35  But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36  And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37  Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38  And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.


Stratos,

I don't defend genocide, nor murder.

And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.

i.e.
The wicked - those people who commit genocide and murder, who even murder their own children.




Stratos,

By your choices, you want murderers to live among us.

You would facilitate [more] murder, with your tolerance of murderers, and other criminals.

God's way is to remove ourselves from the 'company' of murderers, and other criminals - OR - to remove murderers, and other criminals from our society.




Stratos,

People like yourself are facilitating murder, genocide, and other serious crimes.

Why so ?

Because people like yourself are facilitating, and tolerating LAWLESSNESS in men, and in the societies of men.

You, and many people like you, have been 'brainwashed' to believe, that your tolerance of great evil, is a virtue.

Oh yes, tolerance of great evil, is a virtue!      Tongue

NOT!!!








Quote:

Mild mannered -
"We will govern for all Egyptians"
- Mohamed Morsi -
Ex-President of Egypt


"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg





"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb.








"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Karl Popper


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #91 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Stratos
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #92 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 11:31am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?


No Gandalf it's OK.  Killing babies is mercy under certain circumstances apparently
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #93 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:47am:
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:20am:
And, i do not condemn my God for his wish, that his people would be like he is, and would destroy the wicked.


what about babies?







gandalf,

You are a moslem.
You are a hypocrite.
But i repeat myself.



"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Golda Meir


...
Please close the Islam forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382389044/120#120igandalf,

You are a moslem [a person who endorses 'religious' murder].
You are a person who endorses ISLAM's societal tenets, and ISLAM's religious laws.
But i repeat myself.


Quote:
There Can Be No End to Jihad'

Islamist Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, in an exclusive interview, discusses the rationale for 9/11, the Christians he most respects, and the Jesus he defends.
posted 11/05/2007
....Any weapons are legitimate in jihad. Even animals may be used as "suicide bombers"! It is not restricted by target—even Muslims or children, if used by the enemy as human shields, can be killed.
....Killing women and children never was and never will be part of the jihad in Islam, whether that be the women or children of the Muslims or non-Muslims. So if Chechen mujahedeen killed women and children in Beslan, I would condemn it. The children of non-Muslims, such as those at Beslan, who die in such circumstances go to Paradise.
....Women and children [i.e. boys under 15] or Muslims are not legitimate targets—nor are any noncombatants [clergy, disabled, insane, elderly, etc.]. Not even Israeli children or women, unless they serve in the military, which most do, or live in properties taken from dispossessed Palestinians (Muslim or Christian), which virtually all do.
However, if children are killed, the fault lies with the adult occupiers who brought them into a battlefield situation.


.....quoting a 'peace loving' moslem cleric, explaining that it is the non-moslems who are always to blame, when non-moslem children [i.e. Jewish children in occupied 'Palestinian'] are killed in "Jihad operations" with moslems.

Google;
"There Can Be No End to Jihad"



<-------- These people, moslems, now live among us.

They are already leaving their safe place, their sanctuary, Australia, to return to their own homelands [e.g. Somalia and Syria] so as to participate in the butchery of their enemies, safe in the knowledge that if circumstances turn against them they can now quickly return, unhindered, to their place of sanctuary.

People like Stratos are culpable, for the crimes which moslems commit, in the name of ISLAM.

People like Stratos have blood on their hands, as surely as if they themselves had cut someone's throat themselves, imo.

Why so.

Because they know.

Because people like Stratos know what, ISLAM endorses and encourages.

Because they know that a moslem is a follower of ISLAM.

And yet, people like Stratos pretend that their tolerance OF WHAT MOSLEMS ARE, is a virtue [i.e. moslems = = unapologetic followers of ISLAM].

People like Stratos pretend that their tolerance of persons who promote religious murder [as a virtue], is a virtue too.

People like Stratos are corrupted human beings, imo.




"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


Sanctified MURDER.







Psalms 106:34
They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
35  But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36  And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37  Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38  And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.


...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #94 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:49pm
 
You did not answer the question Y.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Stratos
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #95 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:49pm:
You did not answer the question Y.


Yeah.  I noticed that.  proabably because he is trying to distance himself from his actual belief that killing babies can be justified.

Nice bit of taqiyya going on there Yadda.  Maybe other religions have a doctrine of deceit too?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Stratos
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #96 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 1:28pm:
People like Stratos are corrupted human beings, imo.


Not corrupted enough to make excuses for genocide and infanticide like you and Pete.  hate to think what would have to happen to make me able to justify that kind of thing
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #97 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm
 
Just to clarify, the question of whether God Himself has power over all beings and can at any time take any life away at any time - is *NOT* the issue.

The issue is the idea that God would command his followers to carry out His wrath/justice for Him.

Why would God "condition" his followers to become monsters? Why would God compel someone to go through the trauma of hacking to death a terrified woman and her children? What sort of society does God envisage for his people - a mob of brutal baby killers? Or a compassionate people with an acute sense of justice and morality?

It just doesn't add up.

Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Stratos
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #98 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 3:49pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm:
Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf


A good read.  Thanks for that
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Yadda
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #99 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20th, 2014 at 2:45pm:
Just to clarify, the question of whether God Himself has power over all beings and can at any time take any life away at any time - is *NOT* the issue.

The issue is the idea that God would command his followers to carry out His wrath/justice for Him.

Why would God "condition" his followers to become monsters? Why would God compel someone to go through the trauma of hacking to death a terrified woman and her children? What sort of society does God envisage for his people - a mob of brutal baby killers? Or a compassionate people with an acute sense of justice and morality?

It just doesn't add up.

Here's a good essay on the topic:
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf




gandalf,

Thank you for the link.




2014-Jan-21  Tue 4:39 am

gandalf,

I'm reading;
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/wes/DidGodCommandGenocide.pdf

Wesley Morriston
Did God Command Genocide?
A Chang  h Bibica Inani



gandalf,

Do you have a link to a quotable copy of that article ?

It is going to be cumbersome to critique the argument made in this article, if i can't copy parts of what it says, e.g.;

......No doubt the autho?(?) of Deute?onomy
believed
thatGod had commanded a genocidal attack on the inhabitant? of the P?omi?edLand. But that i? not what a pe?fectly good God would do. so if we believethat God i?, and ha? alway? been, pe?fectly good, why ?houldn’t we ?implyconclude that the human autho?(?) of Deute?onomy we?e mi?taken?He?e i? a mo?e ca?eful fo?mulation of the a?gument that I wi?h to di?-cu??.(1) God exi?t? and i? mo?ally pe?fect.(2) so God would not command one nation to exte?minate the peopleof anothe?
unless He had a morally suf?cient reason for doing so
.(3) Acco?ding to va?iou? OT text?, God ?ometime? commanded the I?-?aelite? to exte?minate the people of othe? nation?.(4) It i? highly
unlikely
that God had a morally suf?cient reason for is
-?uing the?e alleged command?.(5) so it i? highly
unlikely
that eve?ything eve?y book of the OT ?ay?about God i? t?ue.I believe that thi? a?gument con?titute? quite a ?t?ong
prima facie
ca?eagain?t ine??ancy. Unle?? a bette? a?gument can be found fo? ?ejecting it?conclu?ion, then anyone who think? that God i? pe?fectly good ?hould ac-knowledge that the?e a?e mi?take? in ?ome of the book? of the OT.

Few Ch?i?tian? would have any doubt about p?emi?e (1), and I think nea?ly all would accept the move f?om (1) to (2). If God i? mo?ally pe?fect,then He mu?t be pe?fectly ju?t in Hi? dealing? with all c?eated pe??on?. Hemu?t al?o love them, de?i?ing what i? be?t fo? each of them. We can be ?u?ethat He would not command a genocidal attack unle?? He had ove??iding?ea?on? fo? doing ?o—?ea?on? that a?e compatible with Hi? pe?fect ju?ticeand love.



+++

Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy,....

Jeremiah 9:24
.....I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Deuteronomy 7:1
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2  And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:i...
That image is not depicting a child, and a group of men.
That image is depicting a polluted and defiled land.
That image is depicting moral monsters [who are inhabiting God's holy land].
They are moral monsters which my God is justified to destroy as he chooses, both here, and in the spirit realm.



n.b.
Numbers 35:33
So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.


gandalf,

People like you, hate God.

I love God.
And i love God's righteousness.
And that is the difference between men.







"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Golda Meir








gandalf,

Men need to get right with God.

But most men think that the 'fault' which we see, lays with God, and so they remain in rebellion.




2 Chronicles 19:1
And Jehoshaphat the king of Judah returned to his house in peace to Jerusalem.
2  And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.


Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


Back later, with a fuller reply.
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Stratos
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #100 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:30am
 
So, about that question you've been asked about 10 times now then?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #101 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:43am
 
Yadda the PDF comes out fine for me. Suggest you check your browser's pdf plugin, otherwise you can always download it and view it through adobe reader.

Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:21am:
Wesley Morriston is mistaken.

There is no contradiction between, for example;

Leviticus 20:26, Jeremiah 9:24      and; Deuteronomy 7:1-2


Who said anything about a contradiction? Thats not the point at all. As I keep saying, I have no beef with God smiting whomever he wishes - thats his prerogative. But usually its through earthquakes and floods - not by ordering his people to commit evil.

And by "evil" I don't mean killing evil men who commit evil deeds - so don't bother bringing up that strawman again.

By "evil" I mean slaughtering children and innocents. I believe "all who breath" was the exact phrase we find in the OT right?

The idea being that the Israelites "smite" these evil tribes, "utterly destroy" them, and establish a moral, pure God-fearing nation in its place. Yes?

Thus the essense of God's message as relayed in the OT is:
"Go forth and slaughter babies - so that you may become a righteous people and spread your righteousness across the land"

Does that make sense to you Yadda? What do you think it does to a man to have to hack to death a terrified woman and her helpless children? Does it instil the fear of God in him? Does it make him an upstanding and righteous man of God?

Or if I can put it this way: the premise of my argument is 1. that man killing innocent children (and innocent men and women), is an entirely evil act - based on every ethical standard defined by Jesus and the NT. 2. God would never command his followers to commit an evil act - not for the sake of the victim (who will of course experience God's mercy), but for the sake of the perpetrators soul. It turns him into the very entity that God is telling his followers to remove from the land.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #102 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 10:41am
 
quick gandalf ......... rush to defend the 'rights' of some muzzies to murder others.
At least, deflect the topic.



oh, you already have.
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moses
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #103 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:28pm
 
Some extracts below
Quote:
Book of Deuteronomy

The Book of Deuteronomy is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible, and of the Jewish Torah/Pentateuch.

The book consists of three sermons or speeches delivered to the Israelites by Moses on the plains of Moab, shortly before they enter the Promised Land. The first sermon recapitulates the forty years of wilderness wanderings which have led to this moment, and ends with an exhortation to observe the law (or teachings), later referred to as the Law of Moses;

While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BC) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century.


So it appears the Jews accept Moses as the author of Deuteronomy.

From the Bible: Quote:
Deuteronomy 1:1 These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness,


It is also clear that Christians are told Moses was the author of Deuteronomy.

Moses preached what he thought God wanted him to say, inspired by his faith and inner spiritualness

It all took place about 3500 years ago.

There are two things for believers today:

First: did God actually want babies slaughtered? Or was Moses exagerating to the utmost (as he believed), the method of defeating an enemy nation?

I would say to Christians read:
Quote:
Luke 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luke 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village

1John 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


3500 years ago civilization was barbaric, there would no doubt have been many people who believed that the preaching to kill infants was the right spirit, there would also have been people against it.

Today in 2014 with the benefit of my evolving civilization behind me, and an inbuilt revulsion at the thought of that deed, I can safely say I don't agree with that spiritual part of the words of Moses.

Secondly it has absolutely nothing to do with any Christian today 2014: 
Quote:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be

justified
in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


So it is very obvious that today in 2014 the Law of Moses has been superceded by faith in Christ.

Therefore I still firmly believe that islam is the most evil belief system, the qur'an is acknowledged as the actual word of allah.

muslims right now around the globe, are slaughtering innocent men, women and children as a sacred fulfillment of the commands of allah, preached by muhammad, recorded in the qur'an, all synchronized by islam.

muslims would commit genocide (have done in the past) to establish islam as the one and only belief in the world. Knowing they are fully justified by islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an
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Re: SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems
Reply #104 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 3:59pm
 
...
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