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slavery in Islam (Read 13623 times)
freediver
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slavery in Islam
Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am
 
Do the children of slaves become slaves?

What is the status of children fathered by the slave owner?

Are slaves allowed to have sex with or marry each other?

If Muslim men are allowed to rape their slaves, why isn't slavery 'bred out' of the society?
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falah
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #1 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:45am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am:
Do the children of slaves become slaves?


Not necessearily. Islam encourages the freeing of slaves. If the father is a freeman, the children automatically become free.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am:
What is the status of children fathered by the slave owner?


They are like other children. They inherit from their father. The concubine who bears a son automatically becomes a free woman when her master dies.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am:
Are slaves allowed to have sex with or marry each other?


One of the duties of the slave owner is to arrange marriage of his slaves. This is a human right, and even slaves need to marry.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am:
If Muslim men are allowed to rape their slaves, why isn't slavery 'bred out' of the society?


Can you demonstrate exactly where in the Quran it says Muslims are allowed to rape slaves?

Or are you lying again?

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brumbie
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #2 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:44am
 
Malik’s Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.100:
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freediver
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #3 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:32pm
 
Quote:
One of the duties of the slave owner is to arrange marriage of his slaves. This is a human right, and even slaves need to marry.


What are the guidelines for this?

If a married couple are enslaved, do they remain married? What if one of them is enslaved?

In other cases, is it typical to marry a non-Muslim female slave to a Muslim man?

If marriage is a human right, is choosing for yourself who to marry also a right? Isn't it a bit of an oxymoron to talk about the human rights of slaves?

Quote:
Can you demonstrate exactly where in the Quran it says Muslims are allowed to rape slaves?


I am going by the fact that there is no punishment for this - something neither you nor Abu disagree with. You can find the passage in the Koran that is relevant. Obviously I am not going to find it for you.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #4 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:56pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am:
Do the children of slaves become slaves?

What is the status of children fathered by the slave owner?

Are slaves allowed to have sex with or marry each other?

If Muslim men are allowed to rape their slaves, why isn't slavery 'bred out' of the society?

I dont get why you are so wrapped up over this when out society keeps about 1000000000x more slaves than they ever could or would.
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freediver
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #5 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:59pm
 
I think I already had this discussion with you yesterday and today in the other thread. I would be happy to continue it there, rather than repeating it from the beginning here. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the difference between hard choices and no choices.

Or you can start a new thread somewhere suitable if you'd prefer.
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abu_rashid
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #6 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 2:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:59pm:
I think I already had this discussion with you yesterday and today in the other thread..


Because it exposes your illogical fixation on Islam and slavery?
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freediver
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #7 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:08pm
 
How is opposing the legalisation of slavery 'illogical'? Doesn't the fact I know so little about it imply I am not fixated?

What are the guidelines for arranging marriages for your slaves?

If a married couple are enslaved, do they remain married? What if one of them is enslaved?

In other cases, is it typical to marry a non-Muslim female slave to a Muslim man?

If marriage is a human right, is choosing for yourself who to marry also a right? Isn't it a bit of an oxymoron to talk about the human rights of slaves?

Would it be fair to say that in practice, Islam 'discourages' slavery more by breeding it out than by freeing slaves in the nominal sense?

Quote:
The concubine who bears a son automatically becomes a free woman when her master dies.


What if she only bears him a few daughters? What if she is sold to someone else first?

Quote:
This is a human right, and even slaves need to marry.


Does Islam have any other human rights, besides having your owner organise someone for you to have sex with?

Can you explain how the concept of a right to marry works in a country where men can have up to four wives? Does this imply the sharing of wives through divorce, widowing etc?

Quote:
They are like other children. They inherit from their father.


Does this mean you were lying when you said that people can only become slaves in Islam by waging war against Muslims?
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« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:19pm by freediver »  

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abu_rashid
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #8 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:08pm:
How is opposing the legalisation of slavery 'illogical'? Doesn't the fact I know so little about it imply I am not fixated?


Cut the crap fd, you've been harping on about this since 2008.

Exhibit A: Freediver making this same thread 4 years ago

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:08pm:
Isn't it a bit of an oxymoron to talk about the human rights of slaves?


Is it an oxymoron to talk about human rights of life prisoners in Western gaols?
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #9 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:48pm
 
Slavery is still alive in Mauritania and that  country has Islam as its official religion.

Nice article it even mentions sex with slaves.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.strong...
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freediver
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #10 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:57pm
 
Abu is it true that Dhimmis risk death or slavery if they violate any of the rules intended to force them into a life of humiliation?

Can children be born into slavery?

Why does another thread from four years ago where you also could not bring yourself to answer questions imply some kind of fixation? It seems I know little more than I knew then because I gave up trying to get a straight answer.
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abu_rashid
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #11 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:57pm:
Abu is it true that Dhimmis risk death or slavery if they violate any of the rules intended to force them into a life of humiliation?


Can you show me an evidence for it? Our religion is based on evidences, not on conjectures.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:57pm:
Can children be born into slavery?


No.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:57pm:
Why does another thread from four years ago where you also could not bring yourself to answer questions imply some kind of fixation? It seems I know little more than I knew then because I gave up trying to get a straight answer.


The questions were answered, but that did not halt the conjecture and insinuations and outright fabrications, and so I chose to leave you to fixate on your delusions, as I'll no doubt be doing here again soon.
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freediver
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #12 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:28pm
 
Quote:
Can you show me an evidence for it? Our religion is based on evidences, not on conjectures.


Sure. It is linked to in the first post in that thread you just linked to. I asked the same question back then and surprise surprise, got no answer.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224850702/2#2

The transgression by the dhimmis of some of these obligations, abolished their protection, and threaten them with death or slavery. Dhimmis suffered many legal disabilities intended to reduce them to a condition of humiliation, segregation and discrimination.

Also, in that same thread (and many others including the 'misconceptions' thread), you claim that women no longer go onto the battlefield. Are you planning on correcting this? Or would that bring to an end your entire facade of Islam magically bringing about an end to slavery, despite legalising it?

You also claimed that only women are enslaved. Is it true that there are no male slaves in Islam? Does this pretty much guarantee that slavery should be eradicated in Islam in one generation because the slave owners would only arrange a marriage of their slaves to Muslim men?

Can you explain the apparent contradiction between only enslaving women, the historical context of these women being 'brought' to the battlefield along with wealth, and the claim that Islam only enslaved people who waged war against Muslims?
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abu_rashid
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #13 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:56pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:28pm:
The transgression by the dhimmis of some of these obligations, abolished their protection, and threaten them with death or slavery. Dhimmis suffered many legal disabilities intended to reduce them to a condition of humiliation, segregation and discrimination.


Yeh.. actually.. I asked for evidence, not a link to a similar dubious claim you made in another thread.

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:28pm:
Also, in that same thread (and many others including the 'misconceptions' thread), you claim that women no longer go onto the battlefield. Are you planning on correcting this?


Women are not brought into the battlefield as prizes, like the Arab pagans and others used to do. That's correct, nothing needs correcting in that. Unless of course you know of a culture still doing this?

freediver wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:28pm:
You also claimed that only women are enslaved.


I don't recall stating that, do quote me though if you think so.
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Re: slavery in Islam
Reply #14 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:00pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:56pm:
Women are not brought into the battlefield as prizes, like the Arab pagans and others used to do. That's correct, nothing needs correcting in that. Unless of course you know of a culture still doing this?
.



Women are treated with disgrace by Islamic culture.

2. class citizens, walk behind the husband, not allowed to university, must serve man.

See Islam would never never allow the women to serve in army as we have in my unit. Never is muslim is this allowed.
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