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Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN! (Read 4701 times)
adelcrow
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #45 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:21am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:15am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:01am:
I can see asylum and refugees is big media story everyday in Australia,

For me as I am here just study for the 2012 time I do not mostly say on Aussie items as I do not know or am citizen to do so,

But you know from my experiences you must be care on who is coming to Australia,
Suspect terrorist also hides with refugees,, we know this as we has this problem too,,
Israeli army has to enter refugee camps to capture terror suspects in there hiding,,

So be care,, with the refugee comes the terrorist too,



I saw those terrorists on Team America last night. They were hilarious.


We have to be careful of those Durkadurkastanies...
Theyre coming here in droves on leaky boats just to set up terrorist cells so they can destroy the world.
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #46 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:26am
 
MOTR wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:14am:
And some might argue there are terrorist sympathizers that come to our country on student visas.


I am on a student visa for my university course which is all paid by me,

In Australia you don't know what is like to suffer terror every day and every week,,
I have experience of much Muslim terror,, they has threaten my country all my lifetime

You cannot know how it is from this far distances away

You must be care not to allow into aus the terror suspects
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #47 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:32am
 
You know we has find the terror suspects hide in refugee camps in Samaria,
Army has go into these camps to find them

So is true that terror suspects they seek to hide as refugee to escape the justice,,

You know we has decide to treat refugee camps as possible terror hide place now,,
Israeli army has go into camPs before to increase security

Do not be fooled by this peoples who try to give to you lies and deceit,,

In Israel we do not believe this stories they have
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adelcrow
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #48 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:42am
 
The poms steal a country from a group of people and then hand it to the Jewish people to salve their guilt after ww2 and now we are wondering why the original inhabitants are a tad ticked off.
British colonialism and the poms old habit of thinking they owned the world and every person on it is what created the problem in Palestine.
I have no problem with Israel remaining where it is  but the Jewish people chose to occupy stolen land handed to them by a colonial power so they have to put up with the consequences.
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #49 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:43am
 
Shalom Avran,

Of course you must be careful who you allow into this beautiful country. The question is how do you do that?

If someone arrives and is considered suspicious, then we have every right to hold him while an investigation is conducted.

But there should be a time limit to this. If once that limit is reached and nothing is found, the authorities should be able to lodge an appeal, but only once.

if they cannot show that there is reasonable hope that during the extended period reliable information can be obtained, then the appeal should be disallowed.

The information could be nothing more than : "We have contacted the Mossad and are awaiting a reply"

Under the current Australian system someone could held in custody forever. They seem to have no rights at all. All their hope of a new life in a new country are dashed.

Some detainees are children and teenagers. Most of them have undergone horrendous experiences, which is why they risk their life to get here.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #50 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:07am
 
Adel crow says: "The poms steal a country from a group of people and then hand it to the Jewish people to salve their guilt after ww2 and now we are wondering why the original inhabitants are a tad ticked off.
British colonialism and the poms old habit of thinking they owned the world and every person on it is what created the problem in Palestine.
I have no problem with Israel remaining where it is  but the Jewish people chose to occupy stolen land handed to them by a colonial power so they have to put up with the consequences."


I say: Spot on adel and remember I am Jewish and proud of i. I am also proud of Israel, but not everything she does.

There were huge differences among the Jews in 1947 - ranging from peacemakers to the murderous Stern Gang. The peacemakers tried to persuade the Arabs they had nothing to fear and could claim full citizenship.

But the Nazi-loving Mufti of Jerusalem was in their ear telling them Jews were animals and flee for your life.

Any Arabs who were wavering were surely convinced by the 1948 massacre of Deir Yassin where 107 Arabs were murdered. From that moment on the Palestinian  "situation" became inevitable.

Even worse, other Arab states threw the Palestinians into refugee camps and left them there. Assimilating your own seldom makes a headline.

Winston Churchill said that "jaw-jaw is better than war-war".

No matter how long it takes, the two parties MUST sit down together and try to find a solution that can endure. That means the Arabs should pressure the Palestinians and the USA must pressure the Israelis.

Sure it is hard to sit down with someone whose first principle is to destroy you. But if you don't that destruction may become inevitable.


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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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adelcrow
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #51 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:09am
 
I think we'll find Avram is a troll who isnt who he claims to be.
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #52 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:15am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:43am:
Shalom Avran,

Of course you must be careful who you allow into this beautiful country. The question is how do you do that?

If someone arrives and is considered suspicious, then we have every right to hold him while an investigation is conducted.

But there should be a time limit to this. If once that limit is reached and nothing is found, the authorities should be able to lodge an appeal, but only once.

if they cannot show that there is reasonable hope that during the extended period reliable information can be obtained, then the appeal should be disallowed.

The information could be nothing more than : "We have contacted the Mossad and are awaiting a reply"

Under the current Australian system someone could held in custody forever. They seem to have no rights at all. All their hope of a new life in a new country are dashed.

Some detainees are children and teenagers. Most of them have undergone horrendous experiences, which is why they risk their life to get here.



Peter -- yes I agree that you must be fair and honest to people's who come as refugees.

I think Australia is difficult country to come into,, I has many questions on my Sydney airport arrive much more than when I goes to united states airport,
What is my studies, has I serve national service what is my unit where is this service etc,
None of this asks in new York,

Peter-- I think is important to be care on who comes to Australia you are very lucky to live far from trouble problems and with care you keep problems away,

Yes process peoples fair and with honest but also be strong in beliefs like we do

You has more fortune than Israel has because we are not so far away, we has terror next to us

Be happy you has nice country but be care who comes and brings problems too
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #53 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:29am
 
Peter I will stay in Australia for 1 year and has find many people's here both Jewish and not Jewish too,

I just hope you keep this so nice country and people too
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Avram Horowitz
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #54 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:40am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:07am:
Adel crow says: "The poms steal a country from a group of people and then hand it to the Jewish people to salve their guilt after ww2 and now we are wondering why the original inhabitants are a tad ticked off.
British colonialism and the poms old habit of thinking they owned the world and every person on it is what created the problem in Palestine.
I have no problem with Israel remaining where it is  but the Jewish people chose to occupy stolen land handed to them by a colonial power so they have to put up with the consequences."


I say: Spot on adel and remember I am Jewish and proud of i. I am also proud of Israel, but not everything she does.

There were huge differences among the Jews in 1947 - ranging from peacemakers to the murderous Stern Gang. The peacemakers tried to persuade the Arabs they had nothing to fear and could claim full citizenship.

But the Nazi-loving Mufti of Jerusalem was in their ear telling them Jews were animals and flee for your life.

Any Arabs who were wavering were surely convinced by the 1948 massacre of Deir Yassin where 107 Arabs were murdered. From that moment on the Palestinian  "situation" became inevitable.

Even worse, other Arab states threw the Palestinians into refugee camps and left them there. Assimilating your own seldom makes a headline.

Winston Churchill said that "jaw-jaw is better than war-war".

No matter how long it takes, the two parties MUST sit down together and try to find a solution that can endure. That means the Arabs should pressure the Palestinians and the USA must pressure the Israelis.

Sure it is hard to sit down with someone whose first principle is to destroy you. But if you don't that destruction may become inevitable.




I am same opinions.
I want peace in Israel and am happy to have gaza and some Samaria to Palestinians too,

Some behaviours of orthodox Jewish is bad and still cause the tension,,

This I do not support, I support 2 state solutions but they must stop for rockets into Israel.
They must stop.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #55 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:46am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:15am:
Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:01am:
I can see asylum and refugees is big media story everyday in Australia,

For me as I am here just study for the 2012 time I do not mostly say on Aussie items as I do not know or am citizen to do so,

But you know from my experiences you must be care on who is coming to Australia,
Suspect terrorist also hides with refugees,, we know this as we has this problem too,,
Israeli army has to enter refugee camps to capture terror suspects in there hiding,,

So be care,, with the refugee comes the terrorist too,



I saw those terrorists on Team America last night. They were hilarious.


And you of course will hope they are the only terrorists you ever see eh.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #56 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:15am
 
Avram, you are a treasure.  No matter your age you are wise beyond your years. In the words of the Irish poem:

May the road rise to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
The rains fall soft upon your fields and,
Until we meet again,
May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

And an Irish toast:

As you slide down the banisters of life, may the splinters always point the wrong way


I agree with you about the Palestinian attacks, they must stop. But so must Israeli retaliation which has cost far more lives.

Sometime the leader of at least one of these two nations has to decide to stop retaliating, no matter what the temptation. Hard to do.

Most people in the world want peace above all else. That includes both Israelis and Palestinians.

If Israelis stop retaliating, then surely the peaceable Palestinians will eventually believe that Jews are not bad people and to live alongside them could be both safe and pleasurable.





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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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Uncle Meat
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #57 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:25am
 
brumbie wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 8:13am:
Probably been mentioned before but what was the % again of boat people who never work again and end up on disability pensions for the rest of???



Why don't you do some research and then come back here and let us all know?

I expect the figure will be fairly low.
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #58 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:27am
 
Part of the problem here is that people confuse two terms and use them as if they are identical.

A "refugee" will come to Australia under an organised refugee programme.

An "asylum seeker" is someone who comes on a boat or a plane seeking protection from a bad situation.


A high proportion of people in both categories find it difficult to find a job.

Unless you believe that 85% of the people who battled to get here are lazy, slothful, don't want to work and are happy to live just above the poverty line, then there has to be a different answer.

To suggest that 85% of those people, who showed enormous courage but don't have the guts to battle to find a job is just ridiculous.

The problems could be:

1) Prejudice amongst employers
2) Lack of marketable skills
3) Difficulty with English
4) Shyness
5) No knowing how to prepare a CV
6) Difficulty in job interviews

The list is endless. All can be resolved, in time and using patience.

Finally the boat people problem doesn't belong to Malaysia, Timor, the Pacific, Nauru NZ.

It is our problem and we are the only people who can, and should, fix it.
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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.
 
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Oh, no, not asylum seekers AGAIN!
Reply #59 - Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:33am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:07am:
Adel crow says: "The poms steal a country from a group of people and then hand it to the Jewish people to salve their guilt after ww2 and now we are wondering why the original inhabitants are a tad ticked off.
British colonialism and the poms old habit of thinking they owned the world and every person on it is what created the problem in Palestine.
I have no problem with Israel remaining where it is  but the Jewish people chose to occupy stolen land handed to them by a colonial power so they have to put up with the consequences."


I say: Spot on adel and remember I am Jewish and proud of i. I am also proud of Israel, but not everything she does.

There were huge differences among the Jews in 1947 - ranging from peacemakers to the murderous Stern Gang. The peacemakers tried to persuade the Arabs they had nothing to fear and could claim full citizenship.

But the Nazi-loving Mufti of Jerusalem was in their ear telling them Jews were animals and flee for your life.

Any Arabs who were wavering were surely convinced by the 1948 massacre of Deir Yassin where 107 Arabs were murdered. From that moment on the Palestinian  "situation" became inevitable.

Even worse, other Arab states threw the Palestinians into refugee camps and left them there. Assimilating your own seldom makes a headline.

Winston Churchill said that "jaw-jaw is better than war-war".

No matter how long it takes, the two parties MUST sit down together and try to find a solution that can endure. That means the Arabs should pressure the Palestinians and the USA must pressure the Israelis.

Sure it is hard to sit down with someone whose first principle is to destroy you. But if you don't that destruction may become inevitable.




Hard, not hard at all.
It's impossible actually.
What the Palestinian and Hezbollah terrorists do is not just a 'principle', it's a reality they practice or try to practice on a regular basis.
Even Abbas, the PLO chairman got himself as popular as a one armed leper leper appearing on a Paris catwalk found himself on the Hamas craplist, by having the temerity in asking Hamas to stop firing rockets into Sderot because the rockets were landing on the wrong side of the Gaza walls maiming Palestinians.
Hamas didn't care for any of that, because they blamed the IDF for the deaths and injuries anyway.
They hate, and want to kill Jews.
It's really that simple.
The problem isn't how to negotiate with such people because one cannot negotiate with them.
The problem is what the Israeli's are doing to stop the terrorists, and the ongoing failed attempts at appeasement.
Because appeasement has a zero blot zero zero zero success rate throughout history.
In short, it's never worked.
Ever.
The recent saga, and swap of kidnapped SGT Gilad for a 1000 convicted Palestinian criminals will only backfire one day.
It's not as if Israel got any brownie points from the Left anywhere on the planet for releasing these criminals.
Because Hamas got back overnight the missile and mortar crews they lost in 2006 and then some.
And when they have stored enough rockets and other ammo, it's game on.
And if the Leftists dream that these terrorists will stop if and when the Palestinians get their promised State, keep dreaming.
Because the Palestinians will still hate the Jews as much today as they did yesterday, and they will continue to attack in the time honoured fashion, the UN will do nothing in the time honoured fashion, and Israel will respond in the time honoured fashion with their ongoing half hearted measures trying to be all things to all people and satisfying none.
This will drag on long after all on Ozpolitics today are dead and buried.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
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