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difference between wives and sex slaves (Read 34265 times)
freediver
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #60 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:13pm:
Discouraging the mistreatment of women was something of a theme for the prophet.


Can you explain the example of the woman being beaten until her skin was green, and Muhammed not taking any action?


Where did you read this story? Any links?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287305391/177#177
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #61 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 3:55pm
 
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:39pm:
Any reasons why Australians beat there partners baronvomit?

•Women

1 in 5 women in Australia are abused in an intimate relationship at some point in their adult life. In addition, 1 in 5 women also experience some kind of sexual violence/assault (ABS, 2006).

•Children and Young People

1 in 4 children witness domestic and family violence in the home and 1 in 3 young people who have a boyfriend or girlfriend experience violence and abuse in that relationship (Indermaur, 2001).



In Australia, Canada, Israel, South Africa and the United
States, 40 to 70 per cent of female murder victims were
killed by their partners, according to the WHO.


Dreadful, terrible stats.
And to think that they are lucky not to live in Muslim countries where it is much worse.

Afghanistan
Nearly 90 percent of Afghan women suffer from domestic abuse, according to the United Nations Development Fund for Women. Despite that, there are less than a dozen shelters like this one in Afghanistan, usually run by non-governmental organizations. Abusers are rarely prosecuted or convicted, and most women are afraid to say anything. "Their mothers are beaten by their fathers. They're beaten by their fathers, by their brothers. It's a way of life," said Manizha Naderi, director of WAW.[1]
Iran
Statistics in Iran show that 66% of Iranian women, at the beginning of the marriage have been at least physically abused once. Some forms of physical abuse that occur include: biting, bondage, imprisonment in their own home, scratching, hair pulling, and even starving.[2]

Iraq
A recent report by the UN Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) registered 139 cases of violence against women in the northern region of Kurdistan in the second half of 2008 alone. It said 163 women were killed as a result of domestic violence in Kurdistan in 2009. Experts suggest the number is less than 5 percent of the real estimates.[3]

Jordan
91% of university students polled by the Jordanian Human Right Center approve of wife beating. An earlier study by another organization found out that a majority of WOMEN also supports the right of a husband to beat the wife[4]
According to the [National Family Council] report:
83% of Jordanian women approve of wife beating if the woman cheats on her husband
60% approve of wife beating in cases where the wife burns a meal she's cooking
52% approve of wife beating in case where she's refused to follow the husband’s orders[5]

Pakistan
A study published in June 2006 in the Journal of the Pakistan Medical Association, based on interviews with 300 women admitted to hospital for childbirth, said 80 percent reported being subjected to some kind of abuse within marriage. At times, the violence inflicted on women takes on truly horrendous forms. The Islamabad-based Progressive Women's Association (PWA), headed by Shahnaz Bukhari, believes up to 4,000 women are burnt each year, almost always by husbands or in-laws, often as “punishment” for minor “offences” or for failure to bring in a sufficient dowry. The PWA said it had collected details of nearly 8,000 such victims from March 1994 to March 2007, from three hospitals in the Rawalpindi-Islamabad area alone.[6]
The number of incidents of violence against women increased by 13 per cent in 2009, says a report by the Aurat Foundation set to be released on Wednesday. The report states that 8,548 incidents of violence against women were reported in 2009 compared to 7,571 incidents reported in 2008. Of these, 5,722 were reported to have occurred in Punjab, followed by 1,762 in Sindh, 655 in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and 237 in Balochistan. Similarly, 172 cases of violence against women were reported in Islamabad, the report said.[7]

Palestinian Authority area
Launched in January 1999, the [Women's Empowerment] project first established a research team, trained by Dr Abdo, which in turn began training community leaders on gender-based research methods. They have used these skills to interview a representative sample of 120 women from refugee camps, villages, and cities in the Gaza Strip to determine the incidence of gender-based violence. The preliminary results are alarming: half of the women interviewed to date have been victims of violence. "Violence against women in Gaza basically means domestic violence," says research consultant Aitemad Muhanna. "Women are beaten by their husbands, beaten by their fathers, and even beaten by their brothers." Women are beaten for not fulfilling traditional roles — such as cooking, cleaning, or tending to their appearance — to a husband's satisfaction. Other abuses include harsh insults, sexual abuse among family, and marital rape.[8]

Qatar
One in three wives in Qatar suffer physical or psychological violence from the side of their husband[9]

Turkey
London-based Refugee Workers Association Woman’s Group (GIK-DER) revealed disturbing news last week [in November, 2006] that up to 80% Turkish and Kurdish women are victims of domestic violence and sexual harassment. At the same time 70% of Turkish and Kurdish husbands cheat on their wives.[10]
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #62 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 3:59pm
 
Quote:
91% of university students polled by the Jordanian Human Right Center approve of wife beating.


That must be the university that made it into the top 1000.

Quote:
A study published in June 2006 in the Journal of the Pakistan Medical Association, based on interviews with 300 women admitted to hospital for childbirth, said 80 percent reported being subjected to some kind of abuse within marriage.


Where is Karnal when you need him?
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #63 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 6:29pm
 
Are these true?

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 5:33pm:
True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 5:13pm:
Do you not tire of the lie?

.do not compel your slave girls to sexual servitude, seeking the temporary pleasures of the world, if they desire chastity
- The Quran, al-Noor, v. 33


Quote:
The Prophet instructed that if a beating was carried out, it should be done with a toothbrush - so that no injury should occur. What is allowed is only for a husband to show that he is severely displeased, not to cause any physical injury. Hitting on the head was also prohibited.






That quran verse means you cannot make your slave work as a prostitute which is different to forcing her to have sex with her muslim owner.

The shia allow prostitutes in a temporary marriage, its called a mutah marriage which differs in name from the sunni version called misyar marriage.

Do you have a cite for Mohammad saying hit your wife with a miswak?
Does sunnah.com or quran.com have this verse or is it one plucked from the asses of muslims?



Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 6:08pm:
I will let the good sheik at Islam qa explain why Islam allows a man to rape his wife or slave, he quotes from the quran,hadith and scholars.
Quote:
Is it permissable for a man to force his wife or slave to have intercourse?

The woman does not have the right to refuse her husband,rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her.
A slave woman does not have the right to refuse her masters request.
www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/33597


Quote:
Praise be to allah
Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman, whether he has a wife or wives or is not married.
The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them.
www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10382



You are a munafiq, do you think a rational person will believe your lies?

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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #64 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:18pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
A phrase that captures more of the meanings is "illicit sexual activity" which due to the context I have rendered "sexual servitude" - and any translator will tell you that context is all important.


But Islam specifically permits sex with sex slaves. Why would you translate it as illicit in that context?

True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
Because prostitution  is already illegal in Islam, why would it need to be mentioned in this verse?


Because Islam is full of contradictions. And because otherwise Muslims would find a way of interpretting it as being legal.

True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
Because 'prostitution' only captures a small part of the meaning of the Arabic word "bagaa'" .


So perhaps it should be translated as illicit sexual conduct - to cover forcing her into any sort of illicit sexual activity - ie everything except sex with her owner.

True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
Because the first part of the verse is addressing men and how they should conduct themselves in marriage, and the logical conclusion is that it is continuing to talk about how a man should conduct himself with his own sexuality - not going off on a tangent about whether slavegirls can perform prostitution.


Circular reasoning. You are expecting it to say that it forbids rape, therefor that is what it must say. If a man can rape his wife, why not his sex slaves?

True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
Lastly and most importantly, the verse makes it conditional upon the slavegirls desires (does she want sex or desire chastity). Prostitution is completely banned in Islam. So why make it conditional upon the slavegirl's desire - wouldn't make sense.


Funny how I have asked you so many times already why Muhammed would have qualified the statement, but you only answer when it suits your argument. The qualification hardly makes sense in the context of rape either - why would muhammed say don't rape women who desire chastity?

Chastity is actually often used to denote legal sexual activity and is not limited to abstinence. That points to "illicit sexual activity" as the more appropriate translation - as other muslim scholars have obviously concluded.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #65 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:55pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:44pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 6:08pm:
Quote:
A slave woman does not have the right to refuse her masters request.
www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/33597




Cute how you cut the sentence off midway.

What does the full sentence say?

Quote:
Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse.


What is a valid excuse? The Quran gives us one:

Quote:
"...do not force you maids into sexual servitude...if they seek chastity
"


In other words "if she is not interested in a sexual relationship then leave her alone".


So a woman does not have the right to make her own choice in the matter, unless of course she chooses to.

Makes perfect sense, to a Muslim.

BTW, I am genuinely interested in those "valid excuses", as I think they apply to wives also. I think Abu hinted that they are medical in nature, presumably including having her period. But I never could get the details out of him.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #66 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:30pm
 
Soren wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 2:39pm:
Any reasons why Australians beat there partners baronvomit?

•Women

1 in 5 women in Australia are abused in an intimate relationship at some point in their adult life. In addition, 1 in 5 women also experience some kind of sexual violence/assault (ABS, 2006).

•Children and Young People

1 in 4 children witness domestic and family violence in the home and 1 in 3 young people who have a boyfriend or girlfriend experience violence and abuse in that relationship (Indermaur, 2001).



In Australia, Canada, Israel, South Africa and the United
States, 40 to 70 per cent of female murder victims were
killed by their partners, according to the WHO.


Dreadful, terrible stats.
And to think that they are lucky not to live in Muslim countries where it is much worse.

Afghanistan
Nearly 90 percent of Afghan women suffer from domestic abuse, according to the United Nations Development Fund for Women. Despite that, there are less than a dozen shelters like this one in Afghanistan, usually run by non-governmental organizations. Abusers are rarely prosecuted or convicted, and most women are afraid to say anything. "Their mothers are beaten by their fathers. They're beaten by their fathers, by their brothers. It's a way of life," said Manizha Naderi, director of WAW.[1]
Iran
Statistics in Iran show that 66% of Iranian women, at the beginning of the marriage have been at least physically abused once. Some forms of physical abuse that occur include: biting, bondage, imprisonment in their own home, scratching, hair pulling, and even starving.[2]

Iraq
A recent report by the UN Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) registered 139 cases of violence against women in the northern region of Kurdistan in the second half of 2008 alone. It said 163 women were killed as a result of domestic violence in Kurdistan in 2009. Experts suggest the number is less than 5 percent of the real estimates.[3]

Jordan
91% of university students polled by the Jordanian Human Right Center approve of wife beating. An earlier study by another organization found out that a majority of WOMEN also supports the right of a husband to beat the wife[4]
According to the [National Family Council] report:
83% of Jordanian women approve of wife beating if the woman cheats on her husband
60% approve of wife beating in cases where the wife burns a meal she's cooking
52% approve of wife beating in case where she's refused to follow the husband’s orders[5]

Pakistan
A study published in June 2006 in the Journal of the Pakistan Medical Association, based on interviews with 300 women admitted to hospital for childbirth, said 80 percent reported being subjected to some kind of abuse within marriage. At times, the violence inflicted on women takes on truly horrendous forms. The Islamabad-based Progressive Women's Association (PWA), headed by Shahnaz Bukhari, believes up to 4,000 women are burnt each year, almost always by husbands or in-laws, often as “punishment” for minor “offences” or for failure to bring in a sufficient dowry. The PWA said it had collected details of nearly 8,000 such victims from March 1994 to March 2007, from three hospitals in the Rawalpindi-Islamabad area alone.[6]
The number of incidents of violence against women increased by 13 per cent in 2009, says a report by the Aurat Foundation set to be released on Wednesday. The report states that 8,548 incidents of violence against women were reported in 2009 compared to 7,571 incidents reported in 2008. Of these, 5,722 were reported to have occurred in Punjab, followed by 1,762 in Sindh, 655 in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and 237 in Balochistan. Similarly, 172 cases of violence against women were reported in Islamabad, the report said.[7]

Palestinian Authority area
Launched in January 1999, the [Women's Empowerment] project first established a research team, trained by Dr Abdo, which in turn began training community leaders on gender-based research methods. They have used these skills to interview a representative sample of 120 women from refugee camps, villages, and cities in the Gaza Strip to determine the incidence of gender-based violence. The preliminary results are alarming: half of the women interviewed to date have been victims of violence. "Violence against women in Gaza basically means domestic violence," says research consultant Aitemad Muhanna. "Women are beaten by their husbands, beaten by their fathers, and even beaten by their brothers." Women are beaten for not fulfilling traditional roles — such as cooking, cleaning, or tending to their appearance — to a husband's satisfaction. Other abuses include harsh insults, sexual abuse among family, and marital rape.[8]

Qatar
One in three wives in Qatar suffer physical or psychological violence from the side of their husband[9]

Turkey
London-based Refugee Workers Association Woman’s Group (GIK-DER) revealed disturbing news last week [in November, 2006] that up to 80% Turkish and Kurdish women are victims of domestic violence and sexual harassment. At the same time 70% of Turkish and Kurdish husbands cheat on their wives.[10]


It just go to show wheather your in the west or the east, women are going to get abused regardless of religion.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #67 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:55pm:
True Colours wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 7:44pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 6:08pm:
Quote:
A slave woman does not have the right to refuse her masters request.
]




Cute how you cut the sentence off midway.

What does the full sentence say?

Quote:
Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse.


What is a valid excuse? The Quran gives us one:

Quote:
"...do not force you maids into sexual servitude...if they seek chastity
"


In other words "if she is not interested in a sexual relationship then leave her alone".


So a woman does not have the right to make her own choice in the matter, unless of course she chooses to.

Makes perfect sense, to a Muslim.

BTW, I am genuinely interested in those "valid excuses", as I think they apply to wives also. I think Abu hinted that they are medical in nature, presumably including having her period. But I never could get the details out of him.


Do sex slaves even exist these days?

Or slaves?

Not to my knowledge.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #68 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:12pm
 
Quote:
It just go to show wheather your in the west or the east, women are going to get abused regardless of religion.


So Islam is just trying to keep up by permitting it?

shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:31pm:
Do sex slaves even exist these days?

Or slaves?

Not to my knowledge.


They do in the middle east. Was that supposed to be an answer, or a deflection?
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #69 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:49pm
 
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:30pm:
It just go to show wheather your in the west or the east, women are going to get abused regardless of religion.



Bullsh!t. Only under Islamic law will a woman be sentenced to jail for being raped:


A Norwegian woman has spoken out about the 16-month prison sentence she received in Dubai after reporting a rape incident to police.



Lucky she was in Dubai. In Pakiland or Iran or Talibanistan she'd be dead.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #70 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:56pm
 
Soren wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:49pm:
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:30pm:
It just go to show wheather your in the west or the east, women are going to get abused regardless of religion.



Bullsh!t. Only under Islamic law will a woman be sentenced to jail for being raped:


A Norwegian woman has spoken out about the 16-month prison sentence she received in Dubai after reporting a rape incident to police.



Lucky she was in Dubai. In Pakiland or Iran or Talibanistan she'd be dead.




Mussie justice doesn't make sense:

Quote:
Her alleged attacker, she said, received a 13-month sentence for extra-marital sex and alcohol consumption.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #71 - Jul 21st, 2013 at 7:02am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:12pm:
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:31pm:
Do sex slaves even exist these days?

Or slaves?

Not to my knowledge.


They do in the middle east.


Sex slavery is big problem in Australia. Thousands of them being forced to work in brothels. Authorities don't care much because they are Asian not blondies.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #72 - Jul 21st, 2013 at 7:13am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:56pm:
Mussie justice doesn't make sense:

Quote:
Her alleged attacker, she said, received a 13-month sentence for extra-marital sex and alcohol consumption.


If Dubai had sharia law she wouldn't have been able to be charged with that.

This has nothing to do with sharia law, but rather it is locals not liking what Westerners are doing and making up laws to punish them with.

Islamic (sharia) law requires 4 witnesses to say that they saw her voluntarily have sex for conviction. Islamic (sharia) law does not punish non-Muslims from drinking alcohol.

If only Dubai had Islamic law, she wouldn't be in jail, and her attackers would be severely punished - or even better she wouldn't be attacked in the first place because the punishments for rape in Islamic law are severe and can include capital and corporal punishment which are big deterrents.
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #73 - Jul 21st, 2013 at 8:31am
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 21st, 2013 at 7:02am:
freediver wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 10:12pm:
shockresist wrote on Jul 20th, 2013 at 8:31pm:
Do sex slaves even exist these days?

Or slaves?

Not to my knowledge.


They do in the middle east.


Sex slavery is big problem in Australia. Thousands of them being forced to work in brothels. Authorities don't care much because they are Asian not blondies.


If only we had Shariah law. Then sex slavery would be legal and the 'blondies' could end up as slaves as well...
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Re: difference between wives and sex slaves
Reply #74 - Jul 21st, 2013 at 8:47am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 21st, 2013 at 8:31am:
If only we had Shariah law. Then sex slavery would be legal and the 'blondies' could end up as slaves as well...


That is a lie. 


"...do not compel your slave girls to sexual service, seeking the temporary pleasures of the world, if they desire chastity"

- The Quran, al-Noor, v. 33

Islam does not even permit the procurement of slaves from people who are not war with Muslims.
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