Australian Politics Forum - Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen

pjb05

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #15 - Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:51pm

[]Funny, you were trying to change the topic in that thread too. Anyway, let'as get back to all these lies you think my article is 'full of'

Quote:

It's full of the same distortions and outright lies

Other than whether fisheries management authorities set up marine parks, are all of these lies of the 'vague' kind' where you cannot actually quote anything specific that you think is untrue nor explain why it is a lie? Am I lying because you have told me I am wrong about everything before but you failed to convince me? Can you think of no other explanation for why I am not convinced other than that I must now be lying about what I think?

Quote:

I think all of it could be termed lies FD

Is this your way of saying 'not an actual lie'? [/quote]

I don't think it is neccessary to classify which is an ouright lie or 'merely' a distortion. It's just different degrees of the same B/S. The three in the previous thread are particulary blatant. I have put up explanations, please just don't pretend there not there.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47480 At my desk.	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #16 - Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:03pm How about you start with what you think is the most outragous lie from the article? Honestly, I won't ask you to rank all the lies in terms of their degree of lyingness.
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Bobby.

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #17 - Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 6:39pm

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:14pm:

I think I might have seen that one. Do you remember what it was called?

Hi FD - see here:
http://www.amazon.com/Jacques-Cousteau-Odyssey-Complete/dp/B0007GP70K/ref=cm_cr_...

It's perhaps the best TV series I've ever seen -
a bit like David Attenborough's Life On Earth.
Spectacular underwater photography & interesting narration.

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pjb05 Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1402 Gender:	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #18 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:02am pjb05 wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:51pm: []Funny, you were trying to change the topic in that thread too. I was pointing out the lies in your article regarding the Coalitions Audit - how is that 'changing the topic'? If anyone changed the topic it was you.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47480 At my desk.	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #19 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:26am OK. Sorry about that. Can you point out any of the lies that you think my article is 'full of'?
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pjb05 Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1402 Gender:	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #20 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:35am freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:26am: OK. Sorry about that. Can you point out any of the lies that you think my article is 'full of'? Which article - the one on the Coalitions audit or the one on 'simpler rules'? I have done it for both.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47480 At my desk.	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #21 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:46am The simpler rules one. The one in the OP of this thread.
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pjb05 Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1402 Gender:	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #22 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:48am freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:46am: The simpler rules one. The one in the OP of this thread. What do you think all those comments in italics are about?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47480 At my desk.	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #23 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:51am You disagreeing with me. The only direct accusation of lying I noticed was about which authority was responsible. Are you suggesting that if you disagree with something it is therefor an outright lie?
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pjb05

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #24 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:57am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 8:51am:

You disagreeing with me. The only direct accusation of lying I noticed was about which authority was responsible.

Are you suggesting that if you disagree with something it is therefor an outright lie?

Everything in italics points to an outright lie on your part. Now will you drop this inane line of questioning?

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freediver

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #25 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 9:36am

Why should I drop the line of questioning? You claimed my article was full of outright lies, yet you cannot point them out. Do you want me to drop this line of questioning to save you the embarrassment? Why not simply refrain from accusing people of lying in the first place?

Can you explain how this points to an outright lie?

Quote:

This does not mean that these shores based fishing spots will become as productive as remote areas that fishermen spend a lot of time and expense to reach. However it will go some way to tipping the balance in favour of the shore based angler who has no four wheel drive, but who wants to drive down to the local breakwall and catch a bream with his son.

Duh, bream are naturally found in areas close to shore and not any distance offshore.

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pjb05

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #26 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 11:45am

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 9:36am:

Why should I drop the line of questioning? You claimed my article was full of outright lies, yet you cannot point them out. Do you want me to drop this line of questioning to save you the embarrassment? Why not simply refrain from accusing people of lying in the first place?

Can you explain how this points to an outright lie?

Quote:

This does not mean that these shores based fishing spots will become as productive as remote areas that fishermen spend a lot of time and expense to reach. However it will go some way to tipping the balance in favour of the shore based angler who has no four wheel drive, but who wants to drive down to the local breakwall and catch a bream with his son.

Duh, bream are naturally found in areas close to shore and not any distance offshore.

Easy, you are lying when you imply that the father and son will catch more bream off the breakwall as a result of your zoning or that they will in any way benefit from your zoning.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47480 At my desk.	Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen Reply #27 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:07pm So when you accuse me of outright lies, what it really means is that you are confused and do not understand? I am at a loss to explain why you could possibly think the system would not benefit shore based fishermen. Can you explain?
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pjb05

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #28 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:07pm:

So when you accuse me of outright lies, what it really means is that you are confused and do not understand?

I am at a loss to explain why you could possibly think the system would not benefit shore based fishermen. Can you explain?

No discernable spillover effect (as I have explained), overcrowding of already overcrowded landbased spots, and they might also own a boat or aspire to own one, or occasional go out on charter or hire boats.

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freediver

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Re: Marine Parks mean simpler rules for fishermen
Reply #29 - Mar 4^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

The article explained two mechanisms through which the fisherman in question may benefit.

Why would the spots become more crowded if there is no discernable benefit? Are boat fishermen going to start abandoning their boats because they can't anchor up and fish in front of the most easily accessible shore based fishing spots?

Most easily accesible shore based fishing spots are not overcrowded at all. The vast majority are empty because there are only a few undersize fish to be caught.

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