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Will Rudd Destroy Labor? (Read 4322 times)
chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #45 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:56am
 
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:26am:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 9:49am:
This whole Gillard / Rudd tussle means nothing to the electorate and is taking up too much air time.
A toss up between the worst ever Prime Minister, and the second worst ever Prime Minister isn't much of a choice really.
Particularly when you don't know which one is the worst.

Come on chook, poor old Billy Mcmahon would be rolling in his grave reading that.


I thought he would be feeling better actually knowing there are two others vying for top spot. Smiley
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #46 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:57am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:55am:
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:52am:
Quote:
ABBOTT DESTROYED RUDD. any other interpretation is ludicrous.

EVIDENCE where Abbott EVER bettered Rudd??? or its another lie.You're soooo easy to show up as an inadequate liar,I love it. Grin Grin Grin


find one sitting LABOR MP that thinks Rudd bettered Abbott. You wont and that is why he was replaced.

but your childish understanding of such concepts is why the truth eludes you.

Your evidence that Abbott EVER beat Rudd? at anything? preferred PM even? or TPP? pawned again old chap, you make it soooooooooooooo easy. Grin Grin Grin
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #47 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:00pm
 
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:57am:
longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:55am:
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:52am:
Quote:
ABBOTT DESTROYED RUDD. any other interpretation is ludicrous.

EVIDENCE where Abbott EVER bettered Rudd??? or its another lie.You're soooo easy to show up as an inadequate liar,I love it. Grin Grin Grin


find one sitting LABOR MP that thinks Rudd bettered Abbott. You wont and that is why he was replaced.

but your childish understanding of such concepts is why the truth eludes you.

Your evidence that Abbott EVER beat Rudd? at anything? preferred PM even? or TPP? pawned again old chap, you make it soooooooooooooo easy. Grin Grin Grin


have you ever wondered why when you make these ridiculous assertions that virtually no one from your side of politics stands up for you? Could it just possibly be that even the labor side of politics knows that Abbott handed Rudd a political flogging?

the reason could possibly be that you are an idiot and most are unwilling to associate with your idiotic claims.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #48 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm
 
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!
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skippy.
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #49 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:08pm
 
Quote:
have you ever wondered why when you make these ridiculous assertions that virtually no one from your side of politics stands up for you?

Really? I'm yet to see anyone other than you argue Abbott ever beat Rudd in the preferred PM or TPP polls, no one else is that stupid, even the rightards know you are wrong. Only you are stupid enough to keep coming back for more hits. Even gist gave you a friendly warning a few posts back that you looked like a knob for arguing against the facts,which I suppose also shoots your assertion down in flames. But it takes a proper fool to ignore that and keep asking to be hit back down.
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #50 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:09pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!


COULD OFF SWORE  SHE NEEDED THE INDERPENDANTS  TO FORM GOVT    Grin Grin Grin Grin
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #51 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 1:45pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!


yeah because all the evidence shows that is likely...!!! LOL
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #52 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 1:47pm
 
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:08pm:
Quote:
have you ever wondered why when you make these ridiculous assertions that virtually no one from your side of politics stands up for you?

Really? I'm yet to see anyone other than you argue Abbott ever beat Rudd in the preferred PM or TPP polls, no one else is that stupid, even the rightards know you are wrong. Only you are stupid enough to keep coming back for more hits. Even gist gave you a friendly warning a few posts back that you looked like a knob for arguing against the facts,which I suppose also shoots your assertion down in flames. But it takes a proper fool to ignore that and keep asking to be hit back down.


and im yet to hear anyone BUT YOU say  that that is what I am implying. cleverer people than you (most of us) recognise the actual facts.

come on, find a few people who will coherently claim that rudd was flogging abbott. even labor's greatest supporters (at least the thinking ones) dont make that stupid claim.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #53 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 1:48pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!


Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #54 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 2:07pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 1:48pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!


Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.


That's a nice, simple catch phrase that usually plays true. But sometimes, the common fella out on the street will choose to go with the devil he knows.
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #55 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 4:44pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 1:47pm:
skippy. wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:08pm:
Quote:
have you ever wondered why when you make these ridiculous assertions that virtually no one from your side of politics stands up for you?

Really? I'm yet to see anyone other than you argue Abbott ever beat Rudd in the preferred PM or TPP polls, no one else is that stupid, even the rightards know you are wrong. Only you are stupid enough to keep coming back for more hits. Even gist gave you a friendly warning a few posts back that you looked like a knob for arguing against the facts,which I suppose also shoots your assertion down in flames. But it takes a proper fool to ignore that and keep asking to be hit back down.


and im yet to hear anyone BUT YOU say  that that is what I am implying. cleverer people than you (most of us) recognise the actual facts.

come on, find a few people who will coherently claim that rudd was flogging abbott. even labor's greatest supporters (at least the thinking ones) dont make that stupid claim.

Unlike liars, like YOU, I deal in facts, I dislike Rudd, but he was never beaten in a poll by phony tony, and besides elections polls are the only measure we have to judge how parties/leaders are going, another big FAIL for you Mr liar. I love showing you and your lies up, I dont even get bored even though I show you up as a liar and a partisan fool EVERYDAY. Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #56 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 5:11pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:04pm:
Tony Abbott lost to Julia Gillard at the last election.....In 18 months time he will lose again.....Australian's do not want Tony Abbott as PM pure and simple.....His policies will sink him again!!!



Its looking more like the classic "rope a dope" scenario.
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #57 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 6:14pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 4:33pm:
Is there a greater hypocrite in Australia than Kevin Rudd? His performance over the weekend following the leaking of a video revealing his infamous propensity for swearing showed a staggering amount of only one thing – gall.

Rudd's failure to speak directly on whether or not he will challenge Julia Gillard before the next poll is in most respects pretty conventional stuff. Would-be leaders on both sides of the House duck that question for months before finally making their run and telling cameras shortly afterwards "I never absolutely said I wouldn't run". Bill Shorten probably mutters that in his sleep.

But that's where the conventional pattern ends. Unlike other leadership skirmishes, Rudd risks a lot more than a shattered ego. Indeed, it is hard to see how his actions in recent months can do anything but destroy the party he led to election victory in 2007.

Discounting a desperate bid to parachute Stephen Smith, Greg Combet, Bill Shorten or Simon Crean into the top job, here are the possible scenarios:

1) If, by a miracle, Rudd is brought back to lead the party to the next election, victory is far from assured. If Labor lost under Rudd, the turncoats who backed him at the spill would fight tooth and nail with Gillard loyalists for what's left of a diminished party – the best seats, the best staff, the best factional connections and the best chance of being part of a Labor Party edging daily closer to being the Greens' equal at the ballot box rather than maintaining its status as one of two majors. Party over.

2) If Rudd challenges Gillard and comprehensively loses the vote, he will remain in parliament and, having lost his ability to destabilise Gillard directly, would be tempted to tell the world every damaging morsel of information he has about her. That is precisely what the anti-Rudd camp believes he did during the 2010 poll – they blame him for the leaks that dragged Labor's vote down to result in a hung parliament.

3) If Rudd does not run, but never actually gets around to saying he fully supports Gillard, then he will do more than anyone else could (including Tony Abbott) to ensure Gillard is trashed at the general election. Unless something changes, that is the course Labor is currently on, and it would be a rout of such magnitude that the party would be unlikely to recover. Again, party over.

4) Rudd wins a spill and wins the subsquent Reps-only election (or, with the support of crossbenches manages to cling to power until a general election in 2013). In this scenario, Rudd appears to have saved Labor from oblivion.

5) Finally, if Rudd does not challenge for the prime minister's job, and comes out hand on heart to tell Australia that Gillard is the better PM, his support could help the party to win the next election without him in the top job.

Of those possibilities, the first three are the most likely. The fourth scenario is not beyond the realms of possibility but is far from likely. And the fifth scenario would involve a press conference featuring a fly-over by a squadron of aerobatic pigs.

All of which brings us back to Rudd's hypocrisy this weekend. He told Sky News' David Speers:

"... [there is one thing that] Australians want more than ever and that is for government and Opposition, Mr Abbott as well, to focus on the absolute detail of how we sustain the strength of this economy into the future. That's what motivates me. That's what motivated me during the global financial crisis: trying to keep the economy out of recession which we did; trying to prevent mass unemployment which we did; trying to ensure that we continue to keep this country strong despite the financial crisis in Europe. That's what motivates me and the government. I think we're doing okay on that score and I think it's important that we look on that main game, rather than be distracted by all the bits and pieces of day to day popular politics."

Breathtaking – and a statement that ensures Rudd's place in history as the arch-villain of Labor, the man who for reasons of pure power lust brought his own party to its knees.

Rudd truly believes, along with all his ALP colleagues, that his and Wayne Swan's stewardship of the Australian economy is what has delivered Australians a miracle economy at a time when our major trading partners are sliding toward the abyss.

He believes that, but he also knows that there are only two scenarios that will avoid handing government on a platter to the Abbott Coalition, thereby undoing what Rudd considers to be Labor's best work.

The choices are: Rudd backs Gillard to the hilt, or Rudd wins the spill and the subsequent election.

He knows he won't do the first. And on the second slim possibility he is willing to gamble the entire future of the ALP and, if you subscribe to his view of Labor's roles in navigating the GFC, the economic future of every Australian.

If this were a game, it would be thrilling. As things stand, it's terrifying. Australia has low unemployment, job creation is outpacing job losses, we have relatively low net public debt and a sensible fiscal consolidation program that will gradually deflate both our national debt and trim fat from the public service over years ahead.

Most serious commentators acknowledge the ongoing strength of the economy, and none has been brave enough to suggest that the Abbott/Hockey alternative can work – massive spending cuts to fund the repeal of the MRRT and carbon tax but also to maintain Labor's personal tax cuts and pension increases and, most recently, the promise to reinstate the private health rebate for higher income Australians. At this stage, it just doesn't add up.

Some readers will disagree with that analysis, but it is certain Rudd agrees that Labor has got its economic settings right. And he's shown he's willing to risk blowing that up simply because he feels cheated by his own party.

Unless Rudd can conquer his pride and publicly back Gillard in a convincing way, he is, by his own reasoning, putting himself ahead of every other Australian.



I accuse Longweekend of plagiarism:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Kevin-Rudd-Labor-leader-poll-...
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #58 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 7:04pm
 
Sir Bobby wrote on Feb 21st, 2012 at 6:14pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20th, 2012 at 4:33pm:
Is there a greater hypocrite in Australia than Kevin Rudd? His performance over the weekend following the leaking of a video revealing his infamous propensity for swearing showed a staggering amount of only one thing – gall.

Rudd's failure to speak directly on whether or not he will challenge Julia Gillard before the next poll is in most respects pretty conventional stuff. Would-be leaders on both sides of the House duck that question for months before finally making their run and telling cameras shortly afterwards "I never absolutely said I wouldn't run". Bill Shorten probably mutters that in his sleep.

But that's where the conventional pattern ends. Unlike other leadership skirmishes, Rudd risks a lot more than a shattered ego. Indeed, it is hard to see how his actions in recent months can do anything but destroy the party he led to election victory in 2007.

Discounting a desperate bid to parachute Stephen Smith, Greg Combet, Bill Shorten or Simon Crean into the top job, here are the possible scenarios:

1) If, by a miracle, Rudd is brought back to lead the party to the next election, victory is far from assured. If Labor lost under Rudd, the turncoats who backed him at the spill would fight tooth and nail with Gillard loyalists for what's left of a diminished party – the best seats, the best staff, the best factional connections and the best chance of being part of a Labor Party edging daily closer to being the Greens' equal at the ballot box rather than maintaining its status as one of two majors. Party over.

2) If Rudd challenges Gillard and comprehensively loses the vote, he will remain in parliament and, having lost his ability to destabilise Gillard directly, would be tempted to tell the world every damaging morsel of information he has about her. That is precisely what the anti-Rudd camp believes he did during the 2010 poll – they blame him for the leaks that dragged Labor's vote down to result in a hung parliament.

3) If Rudd does not run, but never actually gets around to saying he fully supports Gillard, then he will do more than anyone else could (including Tony Abbott) to ensure Gillard is trashed at the general election. Unless something changes, that is the course Labor is currently on, and it would be a rout of such magnitude that the party would be unlikely to recover. Again, party over.

4) Rudd wins a spill and wins the subsquent Reps-only election (or, with the support of crossbenches manages to cling to power until a general election in 2013). In this scenario, Rudd appears to have saved Labor from oblivion.

5) Finally, if Rudd does not challenge for the prime minister's job, and comes out hand on heart to tell Australia that Gillard is the better PM, his support could help the party to win the next election without him in the top job.

Of those possibilities, the first three are the most likely. The fourth scenario is not beyond the realms of possibility but is far from likely. And the fifth scenario would involve a press conference featuring a fly-over by a squadron of aerobatic pigs.

All of which brings us back to Rudd's hypocrisy this weekend. He told Sky News' David Speers:

"... [there is one thing that] Australians want more than ever and that is for government and Opposition, Mr Abbott as well, to focus on the absolute detail of how we sustain the strength of this economy into the future. That's what motivates me. That's what motivated me during the global financial crisis: trying to keep the economy out of recession which we did; trying to prevent mass unemployment which we did; trying to ensure that we continue to keep this country strong despite the financial crisis in Europe. That's what motivates me and the government. I think we're doing okay on that score and I think it's important that we look on that main game, rather than be distracted by all the bits and pieces of day to day popular politics."

Breathtaking – and a statement that ensures Rudd's place in history as the arch-villain of Labor, the man who for reasons of pure power lust brought his own party to its knees.

Rudd truly believes, along with all his ALP colleagues, that his and Wayne Swan's stewardship of the Australian economy is what has delivered Australians a miracle economy at a time when our major trading partners are sliding toward the abyss.

He believes that, but he also knows that there are only two scenarios that will avoid handing government on a platter to the Abbott Coalition, thereby undoing what Rudd considers to be Labor's best work.

The choices are: Rudd backs Gillard to the hilt, or Rudd wins the spill and the subsequent election.

He knows he won't do the first. And on the second slim possibility he is willing to gamble the entire future of the ALP and, if you subscribe to his view of Labor's roles in navigating the GFC, the economic future of every Australian.

If this were a game, it would be thrilling. As things stand, it's terrifying. Australia has low unemployment, job creation is outpacing job losses, we have relatively low net public debt and a sensible fiscal consolidation program that will gradually deflate both our national debt and trim fat from the public service over years ahead.

Most serious commentators acknowledge the ongoing strength of the economy, and none has been brave enough to suggest that the Abbott/Hockey alternative can work – massive spending cuts to fund the repeal of the MRRT and carbon tax but also to maintain Labor's personal tax cuts and pension increases and, most recently, the promise to reinstate the private health rebate for higher income Australians. At this stage, it just doesn't add up.

Some readers will disagree with that analysis, but it is certain Rudd agrees that Labor has got its economic settings right. And he's shown he's willing to risk blowing that up simply because he feels cheated by his own party.

Unless Rudd can conquer his pride and publicly back Gillard in a convincing way, he is, by his own reasoning, putting himself ahead of every other Australian.



I accuse Longweekend of plagiarism:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Kevin-Rudd-Labor-leader-poll-...


you are stupider than snot booby. of COURSE it came from there!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Sir Bobby
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Re: Will Rudd Destroy Labor?
Reply #59 - Feb 21st, 2012 at 7:21pm
 
Longweekend,
Quote:
you are stupider than snot booby. of COURSE it came from there!


Longweekend,
Apologise for not including a link to the source or
I will report you to the moderators for plagiarism.

No wonder you were banned as a moderator.
You don't even understand simple rules.
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Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense. Carl Sagan
 
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