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Iteresting Islamic Fact (Read 14974 times)
falah
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #45 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 6:12pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:35pm:
In 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan because of the common belief of their impurity and forced to convert to Islam. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, but were still required to wear a distinctive patch upon their clothings...


...Under the Zaydi rule, the Yemenite Jews were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself. In such situations he had the option of fleeing or seeking intervention by a merciful Muslim passerby.


You are giving examples of Shi-ite Governments. Any of Muslim governments?

Isfahan is Shi-ite, the Zaidis in Yemen are Shi-ite too.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #46 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 6:34pm
 
falah wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 6:12pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:35pm:
In 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan because of the common belief of their impurity and forced to convert to Islam. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, but were still required to wear a distinctive patch upon their clothings...


...Under the Zaydi rule, the Yemenite Jews were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself. In such situations he had the option of fleeing or seeking intervention by a merciful Muslim passerby.


You are giving examples of Shiite Governments. Any of Muslim governments?

Isfahan is Shiite, the Zaidis in Yemen are Shiite too.


Shiite is a Muslim sect....So a Caliphate following Shiite Islam is still an Islamic government...

The same way that Catholic and Presbyterian are BOTH Chrisitian religions....
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #47 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 7:36pm
 
Falah what would you do with the Shites if you were in charge?
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falah
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #48 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 8:58pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 6:34pm:
Shiite is a Muslim sect....So a Caliphate following Shiite Islam is still an Islamic government...

The same way that Catholic and Presbyterian are BOTH Chrisitian religions....


The Twelver Shi-ites of Iran and the Alawis of Syria are not muslim, but are to Islam a bit like how the Mormons or Moonies are to Christianity.

About 90% of Shi-ites belong to the Twelvers or Alawis.

There are some Shi-ites like the Zaydis in Yemen which are considered Muslim, but they are very small in number.

Although the Zaydis are Muslim, they are considered deviant by most Muslims.

Shi-ites number about 100 million.

Muslims number about 1 billion.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:03pm by falah »  

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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #49 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:00pm
 
So what would you do with the them if you were in charge? Are they apostates?
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falah
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #50 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:00pm:
So what would you do with the them if you were in charge?

In charge of what?
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #51 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:09pm
 
The Caliphate. Whatever. Perhaps I need to rephrase the question so as not to confuse you.

What is the propert Islamic way to handle them?
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falah
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #52 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 10:30am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:09pm:
The Caliphate. Whatever. Perhaps I need to rephrase the question so as not to confuse you.

What is the propert Islamic way to handle them?


Probably the overwhelming majority of Shi-ites are ignorant of the aspects of their religion that take them out of Islam. Therefore, they are technically considered Muslim. If they do not practice or understand what their leaders tell them then they are Muslims and should be treated as such.

The Shi-ite leadership, however, say things which take them from outside of Islam. Those who believe in what the Shi-ite Twelver leaders teach, are not Muslim.

Abu Rashid has written extensively on the issue of how traitors are treated in various countries such as, (but not limited to) the US. Although, I am not sure that he has mentioned how apostates in Islam are given an opportunity to repent and rejoin the Muslim community..

There is a good case for the death penalty for the Shi-ite leaders who have killed and persecuted Muslims. Just as there is a good case for the death penalty for George Bush, Benjamin Netanhayu, Tony Blair or John Howard - I am advocating for a retrospective change of laws that will allow war criminals like Howard to be executed.


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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #53 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 7:30pm
 
Quote:
Abu Rashid has written extensively on the issue of how traitors are treated


Not to my knowledge. Or at least, he has not said much about how Shites should be treated under Islam. He tends to answer every question about apostasy in Islam with 'McCarthy executed a few traitors'. The closest he came to a straight answer on Shites was a few years back when the topic came up. He responded by accusing the questioner of trying to stir up trouble between him and Malik - the other mod on this forum who must have been a Shite. Since then, nothing.

Quote:
Although, I am not sure that he has mentioned how apostates in Islam are given an opportunity to repent and rejoin the Muslim community..


Not that either, as that might prompt the question - what if they do not repent? Abu likes to avoid giving people answers that might trouble them. He is very considerate like that.

Forgive me in advance for trying to read between the lines, as I am still getting used to the subtle way that Muslims refer to slaughtering fellow Muslims. Is this a correct interpretation of your post:

Shites are mostly just ignorant Muslims. They should be given an opportunity to stop being Shites. Then all is forgiven. Those who do not accept the opportunity given to them to repent and adopt the one true faith should be stoned to death.

?

Quote:
I am advocating for a retrospective change of laws that will allow war criminals like Howard to be executed.


That's nice. How far down the 'chain of command' would you go? Would you include militray officials? Would you include all the MPs who voted with the PM, or just the PM? You realise that the PM is only the PM for as long as the majority of MPs keep him there? Every decision by the government is effectively a decision by a majority of MPs (ie the sitting MPs of the ruling party).
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #54 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 5:47am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:35pm:
...Under the Zaydi rule, the Yemenite Jews were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food.


Just out of interest do you know the Jewish rules regarding defilement of wine?

I'll summarise for you just in case.

If a Jew is unlucky enough to live in the same building as a Gentile, and the wine is stored in a common area of the building that the Gentile has access to, and the Gentile comes home before the Jew, then the wine is instantly considered defiled and must be tipped out.
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #55 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 5:49am
 
fd you can't remain on topic can you?

As falah clearly showed the examples of Shi'a government have no relevance, you can't help but try to divert the topic onto some nonsense about apostasy, as you always do.
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #56 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 8:23am
 
Oi Vey. The lengths I have to go to to get a straight answer on Shites and apostasy.
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #57 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 8:42am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2012 at 8:23am:
Oi Vey. The lengths I have to go to to get a straight answer on Shites and apostasy.


lol...you still flogging this dead horse? What a loser....
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #58 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 9:07am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 3rd, 2012 at 5:49am:
fd you can't remain on topic can you?


Yes lets get back on topic the question was Abu should we ban the cult of Islam in Australia before muslims start blowing us up because they can't get their own way here.

In answer to your question (which was off topic) go visit the following.

www.danielpipes.org/comments/30022

Ouch bet you do not like him.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#During_Islamic_rule_of_the_Indian_su
b-continent

http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/irin/genocide.html

www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/

voiceofdharma.org/books/tlmr/

I do so like the last one as it was written by a muslim its so peaceful the way they converted an entire district.

www.kashmir-information.com/Miscellaneous/Persecution.html
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falah
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Re: Iteresting Islamic Fact
Reply #59 - Feb 3rd, 2012 at 7:04pm
 
Adamant wrote on Feb 3rd, 2012 at 9:07am:
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 3rd, 2012 at 5:49am:
fd you can't remain on topic can you?


Yes lets get back on topic the question was Abu should we ban the cult of Islam in Australia before muslims start blowing us up because they can't get their own way here.


The only Australians blowing people up are the predominantly Christian Australian Army in Afghanistan, ordered to kill people by the predominantly Christian Labor and Liberal Governments.
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