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Another carbon tax campaign (Read 29142 times)
BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #30 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 8:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2012 at 9:14am:
Quote:
Last time I checked rural communites played a pretty important role


If their role really is important then it will not stop because of the tax.


Nice,  Wink ,... you realy shot him down with that one making him explain his no-doubt-dippy ideas on how market forces are supposed to work at the same time!

You got some style freediver!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

  Grin

(I need to go and change my pants now ..  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Embarrassed  Grin Grin Grin Grin)
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #31 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 8:34pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2012 at 9:14am:
Quote:
If you are going to impose a tax that directly disadvantages people just because they live outside the urban sprawl, why shouldnt they be compensated?


It only disadvantages people with higher GHG emissions. It disadvantages them because they are harming the rest of society, not because of where they live. It does not make sense to subsidise harmful lifestyles at the same time as trying to reduce the harm.

I suspect you have it backwards anyway. People in the major cities tend to spend far more time commuting to work every day than those in rural areas. All those hours add up. Wherever you choose to live, there are many simple choices you can make to reduce your emissions.

Quote:
with no other alternatives available


There are plenty of options.

Quote:
Last time I checked rural communites played a pretty important role


If their role really is important then it will not stop because of the tax.


I will be delighted to see what the alternatives are to using petrol for people living in rural areas.

Business is business!


Face facts, you have been made to look like an amateur!

  Shocked Shocked Embarrassed Embarrassed Lips Sealed Roll Eyes
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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muso
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #32 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 8:55pm
 
Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 4th, 2012 at 3:11pm:
Verge wrote on Jan 2nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:
As for retail petrol, I simply cant support that unless there is greater compensation.

Taxis have got to make money, and families need to commute.  Its already expensive enough and has enough taxes on it already, families cant take another one on it.



Totally agree.  Petrol/Diesel is a co2 polluter, but there are no viable alternative technologies at present.  Plus these fuels are already taxed to high heaven. Adding a co2 tax will be insignificant, a pain, and achieve nothing.

co2 price on electric generation I am all for. There are many proven technologies already there.  There just isnt for transport.


Yeah. Do you know how lucrative the carbon trading will be for some companies that can adapt to new technology? One example that I'm familiar with has a return on investment within 6 weeks, and the revenue will increase the bottom line for that company to the tune of about 30% (every year). 
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Verge
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #33 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:46am
 
muso wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 8:55pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 4th, 2012 at 3:11pm:
Verge wrote on Jan 2nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:
As for retail petrol, I simply cant support that unless there is greater compensation.

Taxis have got to make money, and families need to commute.  Its already expensive enough and has enough taxes on it already, families cant take another one on it.



Totally agree.  Petrol/Diesel is a co2 polluter, but there are no viable alternative technologies at present.  Plus these fuels are already taxed to high heaven. Adding a co2 tax will be insignificant, a pain, and achieve nothing.

co2 price on electric generation I am all for. There are many proven technologies already there.  There just isnt for transport.


Yeah. Do you know how lucrative the carbon trading will be for some companies that can adapt to new technology? One example that I'm familiar with has a return on investment within 6 weeks, and the revenue will increase the bottom line for that company to the tune of about 30% (every year). 


This I am very interested to hear about.  Are you able to share more on this?
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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Verge
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #34 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:52am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 7:33pm:
Their options include:

paying the tax
passing on the cost
driving less
getting a more fuel efficient vehicle
switching to gas
riding a bike
living closer to work
public transport
carpooling
shopping around

etc

Still not sure why you are playing the class politics on this one. The choices faced by rural people are the same choices faced by everyone else, except that they tend to have much shorter commutes and spend far less on fuel. 2c a litre is hardly a lifechanging event. It happens every day.


paying the tax - Used to that
passing on the cost - Not sure how a salary earner does that
driving less - Lets all stay at home and sit in front of a computer all day.
getting a more fuel efficient vehicle - Already done, well, done as best to still suit the needs of a growing family.
switching to gas - No point, nearest servo with gas is 70kms away
riding a bike - Wow, wish I already thought of that.  Bit hard when I was commutting 70kms each way.
living closer to work - Already doing
public transport - Dont make me laugh
carpooling - Done again, bit hard to car pool with a full car already
shopping around - How many servos do you think are in rural towns?  Most cases one, maybe two.

We already get raped with higher fuel prices as it is.  It just gets a bit frustrating when everyones typical answer is the same trotted out lines.  Rural communities dont have the same options avaliable to them as their city counterparts in reducing the impact of the tax.
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #35 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 8:28am
 
Quote:
FROM FD: But it is not a problem. If you take the train to work and the car for the family trip, you have almost completely eliminated your transport emissions. A tax encourages such rational outcomes by maximising choice.


I am staggered that you think this is some kind of radical solution. Are you even aware that the vast majority of CBD workers do pretty much exactly that already? And how about the MAJORITY of workers who dont work in the CBD and therefore need to private transport to get to work?

you comment about a 'tax maximising choice' was a joke, right? surely you dont think that making on option more expensive in any way maximises choice surely?

Your post is lastnail-esque.
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From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #36 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 10:29am
 
Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
I will be delighted to see what the alternatives are to using petrol for people living in rural areas.


There is always biodiesel. If you have your own paddock you can grow your own. An acquaintance of mine in Slovakia does exactly that, but he runs his old Skoda on pure vegetable oil instead of FAME.  Incidentally, he's also a climate change denier, but ironically his carbon footprint is negligible.
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Verge
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #37 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 10:39am
 
muso wrote on Jan 12th, 2012 at 10:29am:
Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
I will be delighted to see what the alternatives are to using petrol for people living in rural areas.


There is always biodiesel. If you have your own paddock you can grow your own. An acquaintance of mine in Slovakia does exactly that, but he runs his old Skoda on pure vegetable oil instead of FAME.  Incidentally, he's also a climate change denier, but ironically his carbon footprint is negligible.


You can be a climate change denier and still do environmentally responsible things....... if there is a bob to save.
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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freediver
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #38 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 12:22pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:52am:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 7:33pm:
Their options include:

paying the tax
passing on the cost
driving less
getting a more fuel efficient vehicle
switching to gas
riding a bike
living closer to work
public transport
carpooling
shopping around

etc

Still not sure why you are playing the class politics on this one. The choices faced by rural people are the same choices faced by everyone else, except that they tend to have much shorter commutes and spend far less on fuel. 2c a litre is hardly a lifechanging event. It happens every day.


paying the tax - Used to that
passing on the cost - Not sure how a salary earner does that
driving less - Lets all stay at home and sit in front of a computer all day.
getting a more fuel efficient vehicle - Already done, well, done as best to still suit the needs of a growing family.
switching to gas - No point, nearest servo with gas is 70kms away
riding a bike - Wow, wish I already thought of that.  Bit hard when I was commutting 70kms each way.
living closer to work - Already doing
public transport - Dont make me laugh
carpooling - Done again, bit hard to car pool with a full car already
shopping around - How many servos do you think are in rural towns?  Most cases one, maybe two.

We already get raped with higher fuel prices as it is.  It just gets a bit frustrating when everyones typical answer is the same trotted out lines.  Rural communities dont have the same options avaliable to them as their city counterparts in reducing the impact of the tax.


That's because they don't need those options. How bad is rush hour where you live?

Quote:
Are you even aware that the vast majority of CBD workers do pretty much exactly that already?


Making up stats again eh longy? Lets not let facts get in the way of a good whinge.

Quote:
And how about the MAJORITY of workers who dont work in the CBD and therefore need to private transport to get to work?


Do you want me to post the list of options again? Are you aware that trains and busses also stop outside the CBD? How else do you think people get on them? People who live outside the CBD usually have it easier. It is very expensive to live within walking distance of work if you are in the CBD.

Quote:
you comment about a 'tax maximising choice' was a joke, right? surely you dont think that making on option more expensive in any way maximises choice surely?


Actually it does, because it adds the option of paying the higher price. Most alternative mechanisms involve even higher prices and less range of choice.
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« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2012 at 12:29pm by freediver »  

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longweekend58
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #39 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 12:32pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2012 at 10:39am:
muso wrote on Jan 12th, 2012 at 10:29am:
Verge wrote on Jan 9th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
I will be delighted to see what the alternatives are to using petrol for people living in rural areas.


There is always biodiesel. If you have your own paddock you can grow your own. An acquaintance of mine in Slovakia does exactly that, but he runs his old Skoda on pure vegetable oil instead of FAME.  Incidentally, he's also a climate change denier, but ironically his carbon footprint is negligible.


You can be a climate change denier and still do environmentally responsible things....... if there is a bob to save.


you can also be a CC sceptic and still want to keep the environment clean. I for example teach environmental scientists in our water courses and also in sustainable methods. im still a CC sceptic.
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From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #40 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 3:38pm
 
Quote:
you comment about a 'tax maximising choice' was a joke, right? surely you dont think that making on option more expensive in any way maximises choice surely?


Actually it does, because it adds the option of paying the higher price. Most alternative mechanisms involve even higher prices and less range of choice.


that is truly idiotic. The logic of a lastnail at best.

how is making one alternative more exspensive 'maximising choice'. It has at the very best the effect of no change at all to choice but certainly does not make it better. It is that kind of logic in support of a carbon tax that makes us so dubious of it. If the best argument you can proffer is a silly one then you simply confirm what the majority beleives - that it is a stupid (and ineffective) tax.
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From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #41 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 3:41pm
 
Quote:
Are you even aware that the vast majority of CBD workers do pretty much exactly that already?


Making up stats again eh longy? Lets not let facts get in the way of a good whinge.


well at least my facts make sense which is more than you can say. Why do you think people drive into the CBD now? because it is cost-effective? Unfortunately I am going to have to answer that for you because it is more than obvious you dont know. IT IS FOR CONVENIENCE or because all other options take too long. Making fuel marginally more expensive will raise money but change not one persons decision on how to commute.

I obviously need to ask this. CAN YOU DRIVE? do you ever drive? do you have a job requiring you to commute? your position on the carbon tax would suggest not.
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From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #42 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 7:29pm
 
Quote:
that is truly idiotic. The logic of a lastnail at best.


It is a logic shared by mainstream economists.

Quote:
It has at the very best the effect of no change at all to choice


It is a lot better than all of the alternatives being considered. Trust me, things can get a lot worse if you start to discard economics in favour of empty populism.

Quote:
well at least my facts make sense


Usually when it comes to facts people prefer 'true' ahead of 'makes sense'.

Quote:
Making fuel marginally more expensive will raise money but change not one persons decision


You think this 'makes sense'? Since when do changes in price not influence the market? This is economic fairyland, to put it politely. If this is the way you think you really should refocus on what is true rather than what makes sense to you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions - this is never more true than when the economic illiterate attempt to dictate economic policy based on what makes sense after a few minutes thought.

Quote:
I obviously need to ask this. CAN YOU DRIVE? do you ever drive? do you have a job requiring you to commute? your position on the carbon tax would suggest not.


My position on the carbon tax is based on what is best for the economy as a whole, not trying to second guess all the direct impacts on myself or minimise the impact on myself and maximising it on everyone else instead. And yes I drove to work today.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #43 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:15pm
 
I thought people would be more aware in Australia regarding the Carbon Tax.
Do you realise that this is a mere scam, controlled no other then by the Rothchilds, Al Gore & the Queen of England & Charles of course, under the guise of the Wilderness Society and others.
So Australia has given the keys to the country to these rotten globalists.
The truth is the planet is carbon deficient and it is not a pollutant.
The real pollution is actually created by these people and the rest of the globalist cabal.Being the chemical toxins in both the water, soil- through chemical farming, industrial pollution, uranium mining, coal seam gas, chemtrails etc.
They seem to have totally hoodwinked most people into believing a complete lie, and through lack of knowledge and awareness, have pulled at your heart strings to save the planet.
They have no intention of saving the environment this is but a mere tool , to gain full control of it and taking land as they so choose. Leaving the majority of people without a livelihood, without land & charging you for a natural process, called breathing. Next will be a tax on your inhalation of oxygen.
Really it is but a total and utter scam which will allow them to take over every industry, allow them to put into place draconian measures to take your land your god given right to live.
Look what is happening here and every other part of the globe where this is implemented.
Then they let Monsanto in to really pollute you, not to mention the fracking of these globalist companies.
That is where the real pollution is.
So I say wake up do not believe the propaganda and do your own research.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #44 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 3:11pm
 
I read in the Weekend Australian how Bob Hawke is representing the Chinese in the acquisition of prime land in the Kimberleys so the Chinese can harvest sugar.

Then I read how our prime dairy herds are running down because the Dairy Farmers are selling off their stock to the Chinese.

They are like fleas. Good work by Labor through. It's one way of Gillard planting her red flag in every corner of the Country.
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