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Another carbon tax campaign (Read 17859 times)
freediver
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Another carbon tax campaign
Jan 1st, 2012 at 11:57am
 
Just put this up on the site home page:

http://www.ozpolitic.com

First up, a big thank you to everyone who wrote to their local MP back in December 2010 when I put the word out (see below). At the time, the Labor party had signalled upcoming changes to their climate change strategy with a ‘review’.

Now that we have a temporary carbon tax written into law, it is time to send another email or letter to make it permanent. This needs to be done well before the next federal election, while the parties are still mulling over their strategy and before MPs go into ‘parrot mode’. Please make the following requests:
  • that the carbon tax be made permanent rather than replacing it with a cap and trade system in 2015;
  • that the carbon tax be applied to retail petrol sales.

Find your electorate here and follow the links for contact information:

http://apps.aec.gov.au/esearch/

Find your local representative in federal parliament here:

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/mi-alpha.asp

Please contact your senators also:

senators/homepages/index.asp

Green tax shift:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/green-tax-shift.html

Note that your correspondence will be ignored if it does not include your name and address.

Remember to contact Liberal and Greens candidates as well as the Labor candidates, especially if you are in a marginal seat. Although the Liberal party is currently opposed to both a tax and a trading scheme, there are powerful groups within the party lobbying for change. I suspect that going into (or coming out of) the next federal election, the Liberal party will have the more rational approach of supporting the carbon tax, while Labor and the Greens may stick with their policy of switching to a cap and trade scheme. We may end up in a situation of having the best policy, despite none of our parties actually wanting it, thus allowing them all to blame each other (in the short term at least – they will all want to take credit once the public accepts the tax).

Excluding one sector of the economy (eg retail petrol sales) undermines the effectiveness of the carbon tax, which relies on encouraging emissions reductions where it is cheapest. We miss cheap and easy opportunities to reduce petrol consumption while relying on more expensive options in other sectors to reach our emissions reduction targets.

Switching to a cap and trade scheme will introduce great uncertainty for individuals and businesses considering investing in emissions reduction. So far the trend overseas has been for emissions reductions to be far easier than expected, causing the price under cap and trade schemes to fall, thus eliminating the incentive for any further reductions. The uncertainty introduced will favour short term ‘quick fixes’ over well considered long term changes.

A cap and trade scheme will eliminate opportunities to reduce the GST, income tax and other unnecessary taxes using the revenue raised by the carbon tax. Furthermore, a cap and trade scheme creates a huge economic liability for our society, as the government will be forced to buy back permits at inflated prices (as has happened with commercial fishing licences for example).
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« Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2012 at 12:08pm by freediver »  

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cods
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 3:34pm
 
are you a Lobbyist for the Greens FD ?
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freediver
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #2 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 4:18pm
 
I once handed out how to vote cards for them, but now I am trying to start my own party. I have too many issues with Greens policy. The carbon tax was kind of a standout for them. They went with mainstream economics while the major parties went with empty-headed populism.
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #3 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 4:25pm
 
blessings on starting a new party freediver

australia needs more parties

namaste
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cods
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #4 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 5:43pm
 
it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 1st, 2012 at 4:25pm:
blessings on starting a new party freediver

australia needs more parties

namaste




really!!!! to me that just adds to the confusion.

look what we have right now.. 3 independents that actually are basically running the place..ridiculous.

what we NEED  is to make them more answerable...

how we do that I am not sure.. but to keep giving them our vote isnt the right way I dont think..

as it is FD you may well be in a position to start a new party...like Katter...but all it will do is split up the votes that are already out there..

and thats all well and good but we are not all in that position..

lets get one thing quite clear...

NO ONE IS HAPPY WITH WHAT WE HAVE..

we are in a new age.. and WE WANT MORE SAY.

you say you are not happy with the way the greens are going....


shouldnt you and m yself be in a better position to get up them and stop them doing what they are getting away with???

guess this doesnt make a lot of sense..

but I am frustrated that they can get into POWER..by saying one thing.. then backing right away from that one thing..and doing either nothing or the complete reverse..


ITS WRONG.. I DONT CARE WHICH PARTY YOU BELONG TO ITS WRONG THAT WE ARE HOODWINKED...

AND THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT... for 4 years.....

good luck to you FD with a new party I dont have that privilege.. but dont you think my voice is just as important? and should be heard and not just at election time?..
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #5 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 5:45pm
 
watched a show on Saudi Arabia on TV... it was very interesting... just how every Saudi has the right to be heard.. and they have the right to be heard even by the King..

a damn sight more than we do.
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freediver
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #6 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 5:51pm
 
Quote:
but all it will do is split up the votes that are already out there.


Fortunately we have preferential voting so this is not an issue. Except perhaps for some state elections that have compulsory optional preferential voting.

Quote:
what we NEED  is to make them more answerable...


That's why I am promoting voting by delegable proxy.

Quote:
shouldnt you and m yself be in a better position to get up them and stop them doing what they are getting away with???


I suspect we are not on the same side. The message that we are pissed off gets kind of lost is everyone is pissed off about something different.

Quote:
but dont you think my voice is just as important? and should be heard and not just at election time?..


Obviously I think mine is more important or I would not have gone to the trouble of making this website and trying to start a new party.

Quote:
and they have the right to be heard even by the King..


This sounds like Abu's take on 'rights'.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #7 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 7:21pm
 
FD Good on ya, its a tuff slog to get a new party up and running. but good on you for trying all the best.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #8 - Jan 1st, 2012 at 10:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 1st, 2012 at 11:57am:
   

This needs to be done well before the next federal election,


.......before the lying witch gets voted out. Sad


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cods
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #9 - Jan 2nd, 2012 at 6:31am
 
suspect we are not on the same side. The message that we are pissed off gets kind of lost is everyone is pissed off about something different.




sounds fine but I was meaning BIG like the CARBON TAX backflip...  if they want to mess with the GST..it should be up to US to decide not a hung govt.. or any govt..that wants to change legislation to get something through that has already been thrown out.


so good for you you are in a position to start a forum like this.. and even a party to get your voice heard...

same with the guys that run Crikey and Getup...they have an advantage the majority hasnt got..

we dont know how fair you are FD  we have to take your word for it..that you allow all sides to have their say..

my experience is that everyone has a bias.... no matter what. and if you really couldnt stand someone you could have them banned for life..


I am not saying your would just that you could.

its POWER.. and the only power we mere mortals have is our vote.... and then its only them or the other guys...we really have no say in how they run the country... we just think we do.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #10 - Jan 2nd, 2012 at 12:34pm
 
I support your theory on a tax as opposed to market mechanism.  Usually when something becomes owned by the market, it gets controlled by the biggest and is used to drive out the smallest.

As for retail petrol, I simply cant support that unless there is greater compensation.

Taxis have got to make money, and families need to commute.  Its already expensive enough and has enough taxes on it already, families cant take another one on it.
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freediver
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #11 - Jan 2nd, 2012 at 11:24pm
 
Cods:

Quote:
so good for you you are in a position to start a forum like this.. and even a party to get your voice heard...

same with the guys that run Crikey and Getup...they have an advantage the majority hasnt got..


It's actually quite easy (the website that is, not the party). I put up an article outlining how it is done. This isn't exactly in the same league as crikey and getup. They probably pay people for articles etc and run it a bit more like a newspaper.

Quote:
we dont know how fair you are FD  we have to take your word for it..that you allow all sides to have their say..

my experience is that everyone has a bias.... no matter what. and if you really couldnt stand someone you could have them banned for life..


Plenty of people have put it to the test and found out where I draw the line. If I can't stand someone I stop reading their posts long before I get to that point.

Quote:
its POWER.. and the only power we mere mortals have is our vote.... and then its only them or the other guys...we really have no say in how they run the country... we just think we do.


You really should look into voting by delegable proxy. There are some 'fundamental' tradeoffs at the heart of what you are describing, but I think new technology will allow us to get around those tradeoffs and have the best of both worlds.

Verge:

Quote:
I support your theory on a tax as opposed to market mechanism.


Just a technical point - both a tax and trading scheme are market mechanisms. In one the government sets the price, in the other they dicate the quantity.

Quote:
Usually when something becomes owned by the market, it gets controlled by the biggest and is used to drive out the smallest.


That is the real difference. Under a tax the ownership effectively remains with the community as a whole.

Quote:
As for retail petrol, I simply cant support that unless there is greater compensation.


You mean if it was revenue neutral?

Quote:
Taxis have got to make money


No they don't. Nothing has to stay the same. If having a few less taxis on our street turns out to be a cheap way to reduce emissions, then we should be willing to go there. Not that I think they would - I suspect we would end up using taxis more, not less.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 2:46pm
 
Taxis and public transport, although creating emmissions play a large role in society.

Unless you are prepared to do something about night time revellers, having less taxis isnt the answer.

This in turn could create a whole other social issue that is already bad enough.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #13 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 3:11pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 2nd, 2012 at 12:34pm:
As for retail petrol, I simply cant support that unless there is greater compensation.

Taxis have got to make money, and families need to commute.  Its already expensive enough and has enough taxes on it already, families cant take another one on it.



Totally agree.  Petrol/Diesel is a co2 polluter, but there are no viable alternative technologies at present.  Plus these fuels are already taxed to high heaven. Adding a co2 tax will be insignificant, a pain, and achieve nothing.

co2 price on electric generation I am all for. There are many proven technologies already there.  There just isnt for transport.
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Re: Another carbon tax campaign
Reply #14 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 4:23pm
 
Quote:
Unless you are prepared to do something about night time revellers, having less taxis isnt the answer.


This is why I am suggesting carbon taxes rather than less taxis.

Quote:
Petrol/Diesel is a co2 polluter, but there are no viable alternative technologies at present.


You don't have to look to technology for alternatives. You don't even need to look for alternatives.

Quote:
Plus these fuels are already taxed to high heaven.


The tax on petrol is not sufficient to cover the cost of road building and maintenance. Petrol taxes are also the most rational way to pay for roads, as they come closest to internalising the cost of the roads.

Quote:
Adding a co2 tax will be insignificant, a pain, and achieve nothing.


How will it be a pain? What makes you think it will achieve nothing?

Quote:
co2 price on electric generation I am all for. There are many proven technologies already there.  There just isnt for transport.


You are approaching the problem the wrong way. There is no need to switch to alternatives yet. The presence of 'technological' alternatives is not a rational argument against carbon taxes on petrol.
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