Australian Politics Forum - You can't use Science to prove or disprove God

Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #75 - May 27^th, 2014 at 10:46pm Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 27^th, 2014 at 10:12pm: rolls eyes Your inability to respond with further debate is noted. Therefore, I accept your defeat.
Back to top	"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables." IP Logged

Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #76 - May 28^th, 2014 at 8:48am Debate with what? Quasiintellectual piffle? Right
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

Raven

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2981
Around

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #77 - Aug 7^th, 2014 at 1:30pm

Sappho wrote on May 27^th, 2014 at 3:43pm:

Raven wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 11:34am:

[quote author=Sappho link=1319412508/59#59 date=1398930065][quote author=Raven link=1319412508/58#58 date=1398927735]There are only two possibilities, either there is a god or there isn't.

Both are equally frightening.

Thinking more about your original statement, I suspect that both are equally frightening, because neither answer provides us with an answer to the 'Why' question which naturally follows from a decision about supernatural existence or lack thereof.

Then ponder this sweet Lady of Lesbos. What if there is no Why?

Back to top

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

IP Logged

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #78 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 5:55pm

Sappho wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

As an atheist, my argument is that the gods spoken of in theism simply can't exist because they are either manifestations of our own humanity or lack the logical necessity to be valid in the first place.

Lack of "logical necessity" doesn't mean there isn't a God. I may not need to be a millionaire, but that doesn't mean wealth doesn't exist.

You may not need an army to fight for you and may not need enemies, but that doesn't mean governments aren't investing in defence and looking for potential threats. You may not need extraterrestrials in your life, but that doesn't mean there isn't life out there somewhere in this vast universe. You may not need black holes, dwarf stars, giants and supergiant stars, but they exist.

The idea that "I don't need it, therefore it doesn't exist" isn't a compelling or conclusive enough argument that "there is no God."

You may not see a need to believe in a God, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

I get it, you're trying to invoke Occam's Razor, aren't you? Unfortunately, our universe doesn't follow Occam's Razor.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #79 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:14pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 5:55pm:

Lack of "logical necessity" doesn't mean there isn't a God. I may not need to be a millionaire, but that doesn't mean wealth doesn't exist.

Right, but lack of evidence for something means that lack of belief is reasonable. I can't rule out every single possible God, but I can rule out some of them, and others have better explanations than supernatural deity.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 5:55pm:

The idea that "I don't need it, therefore it doesn't exist" isn't a compelling or conclusive enough argument that "there is no God."

You may not see a need to believe in a God, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

I get it, you're trying to invoke Occam's Razor, aren't you? Unfortunately, our universe doesn't follow Occam's Razor.

You're right. lack of requirement isn't enough to rule something out, but lack of evidence is a good reason not believe. One problem is when you define something as outside of rational enquiry then it becomes irrational to believe in it, almost by definition. If we can't make inquires into it, discussion becomes almost meaningless, you could claim pretty much anything you wanted to claim. That also means rejecting it become trivial as well.

Back to top

IP Logged

Freedumb

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1101
WA
Gender: female

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #80 - Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:42pm

If science could prove everything, then why are there still many unsolved mysteries?

Maybe they're looking in all the wrong places. The same could be said for the existence of God.

Science can not evolve any further without imagination, fantasy and possibility. It is only with these three things that one can make a new discovery, coupled with applying science.

Back to top

Nothing would be what it is,
Because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

- Lewis Carroll

IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #81 - Sep 13^th, 2014 at 10:34pm

Freedumb wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

If science could prove everything, then why are there still many unsolved mysteries?

We lack the tools required to solve everything. With the right tools we can solve more, but "everything" is an unknown quantity.

Freedumb wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

Maybe they're looking in all the wrong places. The same could be said for the existence of God.

Science can not evolve any further without imagination, fantasy and possibility. It is only with these three things that one can make a new discovery, coupled with applying science.

Perhaps they are. I'm not sure how you could go about proving the existence of a god.

Back to top

IP Logged

Freedumb

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1101
WA
Gender: female

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #82 - Sep 18^th, 2014 at 10:19pm

Kytro wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 10:34pm:

Freedumb wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

If science could prove everything, then why are there still many unsolved mysteries?

We lack the tools required to solve everything. With the right tools we can solve more, but "everything" is an unknown quantity.

Freedumb wrote on Sep 7^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

Maybe they're looking in all the wrong places. The same could be said for the existence of God.

Science can not evolve any further without imagination, fantasy and possibility. It is only with these three things that one can make a new discovery, coupled with applying science.

Perhaps they are. I'm not sure how you could go about proving the existence of a god.

To start off with, I'd suggest that people perceive God in a completely different way to what it truly is. For instance, people have this idea that he's sitting in the sky somewhere, keeps an eye on our every move and if we commit any "seven deadly sins" we will be rejected from the kingdom of heaven and our souls will burn in hell.
So looking at it that way, you cannot apply science to a myth.
Now here's another question that has yet to be answered
"How did existence come to be?" And the answer has to be much more explainable than the big bang theory. I believe the answer to that question is the same answer we have for proving God's existence.
If that makes sense.

Back to top

Nothing would be what it is,
Because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

- Lewis Carroll

IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 46559 Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #83 - Sep 18^th, 2014 at 10:34pm Creation & Evolution are both right. It's the ones who think that there should be just one right answer - that are in the wrong. eg: A woman creates a child, a man evolves the child, etc.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #84 - Sep 18^th, 2014 at 10:59pm It's like anything, innit? All answers are right except the ones that SAY they are right - them ones are wrong. Etc.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #85 - Sep 23^rd, 2014 at 12:16am

Freedumb wrote on Sep 18^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:

Now here's another question that has yet to be answered
"How did existence come to be?" And the answer has to be much more explainable than the big bang theory. I believe the answer to that question is the same answer we have for proving God's existence.
If that makes sense.

Well the big bang theory is about the origin of the universe as we know it, including time and space. There was no "before" the big bang because there was no time. The universe is also energy neutral - negative energy (space, basically) is balanced with matter. So in theory the universe adds up to nothing. It's over my head though.

Back to top

IP Logged

boxy

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 400
Gender: male

Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God
Reply #86 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:25pm

Sappho wrote on Oct 24^th, 2011 at 9:28am:

You can't use Science to prove or disprove God, yet people do it all the time.

So, how do we prove or disprove God's existence?

You can't disprove something that requires no proof. You're putting the onus on the wrong party.

The best way to debate the existence of a god, is through philosophy, and the use of logic. Logic requires those making outrageous assertions to be the ones to provide verifiable evidence of their claims, and that the best explanation, is that which relies on the least number of unfounded assumptions.

Religion and spiritualism always fails, when logic is applied.

Back to top

IP Logged

issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #87 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 8:19am Oh, you poor blind, lost soul. How can you possibly live without faith? Your life must be empty. You want proof? It’s all written in ancient scripture. Believe it, and all worldly problems will go away.
Back to top	No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion. IP Logged

boxy Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 400 Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #88 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 6:37pm Ah, the self referencing scriptures. How could I have been so blind?
Back to top	IP Logged

John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2178 Gender:	Re: You can't use Science to prove or disprove God Reply #89 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 5:17pm boxy wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 6:37pm: Ah, the self referencing scriptures. How could I have been so blind? By not seeing the light?
Back to top	IP Logged