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Abu and Les deflecting re: death for apostasy (Read 16215 times)
freediver
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Abu and Les deflecting re: death for apostasy
Sep 21st, 2011 at 8:28pm
 
Lestat wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 9:28am:
freediver wrote on Sep 20th, 2011 at 9:20pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 7:12pm:
Quote:
but you especially object to them talking in a gay way, having their own culture, and riding round on floats with their arse cheeks hanging out?


Islamically, someone who'd taken it this far would've apostasised and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him. Talking is not part of this though, as some people have lisps and other speech impediments which cause them to talk like that. Whether it's hormone related or not, the speech in itself is not forbidden. However, if it's done intentionally to emulate women, then yes it's forbidden.

Hope that clears it all up. Please don't keep going on with this nonsense, it's really a distasteful topic to keep discussing. You might find it pleasant, I personally don't.


freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 7:32pm:
and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him

What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.


abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 7:44pm:
Quote:
What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.


Not from me, perhaps with Malik. Apostasy is a capital offense.


Do you still think I am lying Les? I believe we have gone over this before, but as soon as it got to me posting that quote, you suddenly got all shy on me. Do you think that Abu has posted any further clarification on who he wants to stone to death for being the wrong type of Muslim?

Do you think being gay is plotting against the state and we are 'misrepresenting' what Abu posted?


Yes, you are lying..or least of all, being deliberately misleading.

No one has debated that the punishment for apostasy isn't death. I never said it wasn't.

What I, and Abu have stated time and time again, is that 'apostacy' laws have more to do with treason, then they do with leaving Islam par se.

Just as treason is punishable by death in many western countries (including the US).....treason is also punishable by death under Islamic law.


You know this, we have told you this a number of times, yet you still insist with the same lies and ignorance.

Your getting rather boring FD....


abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 7:21pm:
I think he still needs it said a little slower... be patient with him, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #1 - Sep 21st, 2011 at 10:30pm
 
fd I don't even follow what you're on about nowadays, because it's just drivel really.

From what I can guess, you seem to have had some discussion with Lestat in which you claimed I don't consider apostasy to be treason... Yet on several occasions I've stated this very fact. As follows:

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12th, 2010 at 3:08pm:
Quote:
killing those that leave your perverse belief system, that spiritual too ??


All societies have treason laws... nothing out of the ordinary there.


abu_rashid wrote on Oct 8th, 2009 at 10:26am:
Quote:
Ibn Rushd (Averroes), The Distinguished Jurist’s Primer, “Chapter on the Hukm of the Murtadd (Apostate),” Volume II, (p. 552), Section 56.10: “An apostate, if taken captive before he declares war...


This is the real issue here, which your ignorant claims neglect to take into account. The Islamic texts which speak about capital punishment for the apostate make it quite clear that it's speaking about the traitor who commits treason. Islamically the two are intrinsically linked, which makes it difficult to seperate the issues today.


abu_rashid wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 at 2:10pm:
Yadda,

Quote:
I would state that every example of 'honour' killing involving muslims, which i have come across, has been justified [by the muslim perp] on the basis of the victims apostasy.


Every single example? Can you show me one? or fifty??

Even if it were the case (which i sincerely doubt it is, I've never seen such a claim, and EVERY example is just outrageous), it still doesn't establish it has anything to do with Islamic doctrine. Even apostasy/treason laws in Islam MUST be decided by a court of law, not by rampaging vigilantes in extra-judicial executions.


abu_rashid wrote on Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:35am:
Quote:
AND 'SANE' MUSLIMS ALL AGREE - KILL THE APOSTATE


The Islamic texts stipulate it is the one who abandons Islam AND the community, ie. a traitor. Death penalty is quite common for treason, so again, nothing out of the ordinary.


abu_rashid wrote on Feb 15th, 2009 at 11:57pm:
Quote:
1) Death penalty for Apostasy. Interestingly, this is not actually in the Koran, but Islam has adopted it anyway.


As has been pointed out to you enough times, this is from hadith, and it clearly indicates it is for treason against the Islamic state.


abu_rashid wrote on Feb 14th, 2009 at 7:43am:
Quote:
Crap Abu. The US does not call for the death penalty of those who think freedom and democracy is a bad idea... ...does not mean that Islam's death penalty for apostasy can be equated with America's penalty for treasoin.


US citizens who reject US freedom and democracy, and embrace Communism, can and have been executed for doing so. And if Senator Joe had had his way, it would not have had to have involved a conviction for spying.

Anyway, this was a comparative analogy, I wasn't claiming the two death penalties are exactly alike, they are not. Although I do consider it to be treason, and that's what's mentioned in the hadiths about it, quite clearly.

You claimed that it's "crap" that Islam spreads by people recognising the truth of it  and embracing it, BECAUSE of the fact the death penalty exists for apostates. Now that's no more correct than the assertion that the US doesn't believe in freedom and democracy, BECAUSE of the fact it calls for the death penalty for those who reject those things, and embrace another ideology, committing treason against the state. Nowhere does that analogy maintain that the two death penalties are identical in their details.


abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8th, 2009 at 11:04pm:
Quote:
not killing apostates etc


As has been mentioned above, death penalty is the issue you should be discussing. Also treason (which is what apostasy is according to Islam) *IS* a capital offence in many 'modern' states.


Now in several of those quotes, you were the other party engaged in the discussion. And you wonder why nobody here is interested in playing "lets do research for fd".

You can try and claim it's about deflections or obfuscating the "truth" from you, but the mundane fact is it's just about people tiring of posting things for you time and time again. Either your memory is extremely poor, or you're just not very bright, either way (and I think it's a bit of both personally), it's not our position to have to keep reiterating these things for you.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #2 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 9:34pm
 
Quote:
in which you claimed I don't consider apostasy to be treason... Yet on several occasions I've stated this very fact.


No Abu. All I said was that you consider the appropriate penalty for apostasy to be death by stoning.

To be honest I am not really interested in the treason connection. I also find it hard to believe that the example given of a man being gay is treason.

Les appears to be trying to argue that because you consider apostasy to be treason that the death penalty does not apply to apostasy, or that it only applies in a situation where a rational person would also consider it treason. Is this one of those tricks where you redefine the words so you can say the death penalty applies to treason but not apostasy?

In any case, he accuses me of lying about it constantly. Is there something I have missed? Have I misunderstood you in some way here?

Quote:
but the mundane fact is it's just about people tiring of posting things for you time and time again


Abu, the only reason I seek clarification on it is because people accuse me of lying every time I say you support the death penalty for apostasy. I direct them to your posts. You hardly clarify the situation and seem to go out of your way to reinforce their confusion. I am more than happy to point out your views on killing people myself, but if you come in and validate their confusion it is your fault when it all comes back to you.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #3 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 7:53am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 9:34pm:
No Abu. All I said was that you consider the appropriate penalty for apostasy to be death by stoning.


And just what is wrong with stoning and beheading? HTFU will you. And just remember Islam is a religion of peace.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #4 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:48am
 
Ask Abu and Les. They are the ones trying desperately to pretend they don't support it. The way I see it, if they really believe it is the word of God they should shout it from the rooftops, not mutter it when they hope no-one is listening.

I don't think Les has even given his opinion on it. Given his efforts to paint me as a liar it would be interesting to see whether he shares Abu's view after all.

Other than the initial admission by Abu a few years back, this thread is the closest he has come to confirming his views on the penalty for apostasy. He claims to tire of repeatedly answering the question, but it looks to me that what he tires off is continually making up convoluted excuses for not answering. I can see how that would require a lot more effort.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #5 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:52am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:48am:
Ask Abu and Les. They are the ones trying desperately to pretend they don't support it. The way I see it, if they really believe it is the word of God they should shout it from the rooftops, not mutter it when they hope no-one is listening.

I don't think Les has even given his opinion on it. Given his efforts to paint me as a liar it would be interesting to see whether he shares Abu's view after all.

Other than the initial admission by Abu a few years back, this thread is the closest he has come to confirming his views on the penalty for apostasy. He claims to tire of repeatedly answering the question, but it looks to me that what he tires off is continually making up convoluted excuses for not answering. I can see how that would require a lot more effort.


Muslims want Sharia law here.
Death is the only penalty for apostasy.

see my post
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1316819115/0
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #6 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 7:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:48am:
Ask Abu and Les. They are the ones trying desperately to pretend they don't support it.

The way I see it, if they really believe it is the word of God they should shout it from the rooftops, not mutter it when they hope no-one is listening.


I don't think Les has even given his opinion on it. Given his efforts to paint me as a liar it would be interesting to see whether he shares Abu's view after all.

Other than the initial admission by Abu a few years back, this thread is the closest he has come to confirming his views on the penalty for apostasy. He claims to tire of repeatedly answering the question, but it looks to me that what he tires off is continually making up convoluted excuses for not answering. I can see how that would require a lot more effort.



That is a good point FD.



But the fact is, that moslems are only prepared to reveal what ISLAM really is, when moslems believe that they have the ability [the political power, the 'licence'] to murder their critics, for 'insulting' ISLAM.

Otherwise, moslems, and the whole moslem community, will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully, misrepresent ISLAM to non-moslems and to naive and trusting non-moslem host communities.

Moslems are unwilling to lay ISLAM bare to the scrutiny of non-moslems, because moslems know that they, moslems, are guilty people.

Moslems know that they are, themselves, kuffar.


Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God......

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."


more on that, here...
"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0






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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #7 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:25pm
 
salad in wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 7:53am:
freediver wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 9:34pm:
No Abu. All I said was that you consider the appropriate penalty for apostasy to be death by stoning.


And just what is wrong with stoning and beheading? HTFU will you. And just remember Islam is a religion of peace.


Post of the year!
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2011 at 3:35pm
 
Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy...

freediver wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 9:48am:
Ask Abu and Les.

They are the ones trying desperately to pretend they don't support it.


The way I see it, if they really believe it is the word of God they should shout it from the rooftops, not mutter it when they hope no-one is listening.

I don't think Les has even given his opinion on it. Given his efforts to paint me as a liar it would be interesting to see whether he shares Abu's view after all.

Other than the initial admission by Abu a few years back, this thread is the closest he has come to confirming his views on the penalty for apostasy. He claims to tire of repeatedly answering the question, but it looks to me that what he tires off is continually making up convoluted excuses for not answering. I can see how that would require a lot more effort.





Is it any wonder that societies in the world today, which claim to be ISLAMIC and Sharia guided, are [almost always] nests of oppression, depravity, corruption, violence, injustice, and human poverty ???

I mean, just look at the 'representative' moslems in this forum.

It is impossible to get an honest, a candid answer, a truthful admission, from a moslem in this forum regarding ISLAM, and what ISLAM promotes relating to the treatment and the status of non-moslems, within Sharia jurisdictions.

How could a society, a moslem society, whose members would so thoroughly, and wantonly, and happily, and so shamelessly, immerse themselves in the corrupt practices of denial, lying and the deception [of others], ever be a society which enjoys a semblance of justice and happiness ?

Upon close examination and scrutiny of ISLAM and its own 'religious' texts, and the scrutiny of the actions of moslems in the world, ISLAM is revealed to be a vicious supremacist political philosophy, which promotes the use of deception, blatant lying, intimidation and extreme violence to further its aims.



I have said this previously;
I regard ISLAM as a deceptive and violent philosophy, a cult, which, imo, creates a mental pathology, in those persons who choose to embrace it.


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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #9 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 7:08am
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2011 at 3:35pm:
It is impossible to get an honest, a candid answer, a truthful admission, from a moslem in this forum regarding ISLAM, and what ISLAM promotes relating to the treatment and the status of non-moslems, within Sharia jurisdictions.


Really? Did you ever read the Common misconceptions thread?

Let me quote for you:

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.”

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who hurts a dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah.”

The classical scholars of Islam also detailed the rights of the Muslims towards the dhimmi. The famous Maliki jurist, Shaha al-Deen al-Qarafi states:

"The covenant of protection imposes upon us certain obligations toward the ahl al-dhimmah. They are our neighbours, under our shelter and protection upon the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam. Whoever violates these obligations against any one of them by so much as an abusive word, by slandering his reputation, or by doing him some injury or assisting in it, has breached the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam."

I think it's quite clear from this what Islam promotes relating to the treatment of non-Muslims within shari'ah jurisdiction. However, you're not interested in what Islam promotes, you are only interested in peddling the garbage you've read on jihadwatch and other such loon haunts.

I can lead you to the water, but I can't make you drink it, that's up to you.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #10 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 8:36am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 7:08am:
Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2011 at 3:35pm:
It is impossible to get an honest, a candid answer, a truthful admission, from a moslem in this forum regarding ISLAM, and what ISLAM promotes relating to the treatment and the status of non-moslems, within Sharia jurisdictions.


Really? Did you ever read the Common misconceptions thread?

Let me quote for you:

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.”

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who hurts a dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah.”

The classical scholars of Islam also detailed the rights of the Muslims towards the dhimmi. The famous Maliki jurist, Shaha al-Deen al-Qarafi states:

"The covenant of protection imposes upon us certain obligations toward the ahl al-dhimmah. They are our neighbours, under our shelter and protection upon the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam. Whoever violates these obligations against any one of them by so much as an abusive word, by slandering his reputation, or by doing him some injury or assisting in it, has breached the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam."

I think it's quite clear from this what Islam promotes relating to the treatment of non-Muslims within shari'ah jurisdiction. However, you're not interested in what Islam promotes, you are only interested in peddling the garbage you've read on jihadwatch and other such loon haunts.

I can lead you to the water, but I can't make you drink it, that's up to you.







Abu,

Thank you for your considered reply.

Highlighting the supposed "covenant of protection" is all very well, but the practise is, that even the smallest, imagined slight against a moslem or his religion is used as an excuse [by moslems] to discard that 'protection'.

And you know that that is true.

There are many many cases, where [within a Sharia jurisdiction] a non-moslem businessman, in competition with a moslem counterpart, has been falsely accused of some slight against ISLAM, and thereby been the victim of 'lawful' whipped-up moslem community violence against him.


Google;
muslim violence perceived +slight



And thereby, the supposed "covenant of protection", is 'lawfully' circumvented by moslems, and dhimmis are 'lawfully' intimidated and persecuted [and sometimes even 'lawfully' murdered], by moslems.


EXAMPLES;

"
Pakistan: Christian girl beaten by teacher and expelled from school over "blasphemous" spelling error on paper

This kind of abuse is not a crisis for Islamabad. Pakistani authorities have demonstrated that they do not care for Christian victims, or Ahmadis, Shi'ites, Afghans, or Indians, but the same Islamic supremacists who commit violence against those groups will ultimately come calling at Islamabad's gates as well. "Girl accused of blasphemy for a spelling error," by Muhammad Sadaqat for the Express Tribune, September 25:"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/pakistan-christian-girl-beaten-by-teacher-and-...


"
Pakistan: Priest in Diocese of Lahore says "the police help the guilty" when Muslim men rape non-Muslim women

    The woman began to scream, then asked the trio to leave her free to think their children who were waiting at home. Instead, the men took Arifa by force to a house and, one by one, they raped her. The family is in shock and even their attempt to report the rape has added insult to injury: the Muslims have threatened her husband, warning him to withdraw the lawsuit. Otherwise, his children will have to go through what his wife has gone through. The police has also protected the perpetrators, putting pressure on Muashtaq Masih.
    Fr. Jill John confirms that "the police helps the guilty, with omissions and gaps in the compilation of complaints to favor their freedom." The family of the raped woman, added the priest, are now living in fear while criminals are free to roam the streets of the town."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/pakistan-priest-in-diocese-of-lahore-says-the-...


Is that moslem protection, for 'a person under covenant' ?

Or, as you are often want to 'explain' Abu, that these examples are yet another case, where these moslems are not REAL moslems ?






Abu,

Q.
When will moslems, themselves, take responsibility for what ISLAM and Sharia enable and empower [i.e. the persecution and abuse of the weak and those without political power], within Sharia jurisdictions ???

A.
Never.
Never will a moslem acknowledge, that it is the form and doctrines of ISLAM itself, which is facilitating wholesale injustices and abuses [of the weak and those without political power] within Sharia jurisdictions.



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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #11 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 8:17pm
 
Quote:
Or, as you are often want to 'explain' Abu, that these examples are yet another case, where these moslems are not REAL moslems ?


I think this is another case of you wanting to project Christianity's own failings onto Islam. We all know Christianity sets up lofty standards of peace loving and turning the other cheek etc. yet in reality this never existed all throughout the 2000 year history of Christianity. It is a fantasy. So I can see why you'd want to then try and superimpose your own religion's failings onto others.

Quote:
And thereby, the supposed "covenant of protection", is 'lawfully' circumvented by moslems, and dhimmis are 'lawfully' intimidated and persecuted [and sometimes even 'lawfully' murdered], by moslems.


EXAMPLES...


As you know, I do not consider Pakistan an Islamic state, nor could any sane person. It is quite clearly so far removed from Islamic Shari'ah, and always has been since its inception. The last Shari'ah state ceased implementation in the early 1900's, this is a simple fact. For 1350~ years prior to that though, Shari'ah was implemented, and Ahl al-Dhimma were protected, this is the reality you cannot deny, hence your pathetic scramble to put Pakistan up as an example. Personally I'd like to see Pakistan, and the evil it implements, gone more than you would, so you're only preaching to the converted on that issue.

Again, I state that Islam protects the rights of Ahl al-Dhimma, and that the Prophet (pbuh) made it quite clear what the obligations of Muslims were towards them.

Also for the record your example of business men in post-Shari'ah states can be just as easily used to show how those people do the same things to fellow Muslims, it's got nothing to do with Muslim/Kafir at all. I know of many cases of non-Saudi Muslims for instance being completely ruined by their Saudi "sponsors" who are their mandatory business partners when doing business there. Then on the other hand, there's hundreds of Western corporations doing business there getting mighty fine treatment, so your examples are nonsense, and are proved to be such.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #12 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 9:50pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 7:08am:
Yadda wrote on Sep 26th, 2011 at 3:35pm:
It is impossible to get an honest, a candid answer, a truthful admission, from a moslem in this forum regarding ISLAM, and what ISLAM promotes relating to the treatment and the status of non-moslems, within Sharia jurisdictions.


Really? Did you ever read the Common misconceptions thread?

Let me quote for you:

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.”

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who hurts a dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah.”

The classical scholars of Islam also detailed the rights of the Muslims towards the dhimmi. The famous Maliki jurist, Shaha al-Deen al-Qarafi states:

"The covenant of protection imposes upon us certain obligations toward the ahl al-dhimmah. They are our neighbours, under our shelter and protection upon the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam. Whoever violates these obligations against any one of them by so much as an abusive word, by slandering his reputation, or by doing him some injury or assisting in it, has breached the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (saw), and the religion of Islam."

I think it's quite clear from this what Islam promotes relating to the treatment of non-Muslims within shari'ah jurisdiction. However, you're not interested in what Islam promotes, you are only interested in peddling the garbage you've read on jihadwatch and other such loon haunts.

I can lead you to the water, but I can't make you drink it, that's up to you.


Abu, can you explain to us how Islam instructs Muslims to approach testimony given in court by non-Muslims?

What if the non-Muslim used to be a Muslim? You can hardly claim that Islam protects non-Muslims while at the same time calling for them to be stoned to death.

What 'protection' does Islam offer those who are not from an Abrahamic religion? Every time I ask this you seem to post examples of where Muslims strayed from Islam and allowed them to live but avoid explaining what Islam actually calls for.
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #13 - Sep 28th, 2011 at 8:50am
 
Yadda....
Quote:
Or, as you are often want to 'explain' Abu, that these examples are yet another case, where these moslems are not REAL moslems ?


Abu responds....
abu_rashid wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 8:17pm:
As you know, I do not consider Pakistan an Islamic state, nor could any sane person. It is quite clearly so far removed from Islamic Shari'ah, and always has been since its inception....Personally I'd like to see Pakistan, and the evil it implements, gone more than you would, so you're only preaching to the converted on that issue.


As per usual, we see....

A good, virtuous moslem [or community of moslems] in the world = = A MYTHICAL, NON EXISTENT CREATURE

A moslem in the world who is a corrupt, violent oppressor of his fellow man = = NOT A REAL MOSLEM






abu_rashid wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Again, I state that Islam protects the rights of Ahl al-Dhimma, and that the Prophet (pbuh) made it quite clear what the obligations of Muslims were towards them.




Abu,

It is absolutely impossible for ISLAM to produce a harmonious, just, and stable society.

Any rational person who was to examine what ISLAM promotes, would have to come to that conclusion.

And it is also true that, much of recorded ISLAMIC history [recording that moslems were the most benevolent masters of other peoples, and that those periods of ISLAMIC dominance of other peoples were always virtuous and benevolent], was manufactured, and 'confected'.

An 'ISLAMIC' history, which is 'confected' by moslems themselves, to be a veil of ISLAMIC lies about ISLAM's own self professed virtue, so as to conceal the history of depraved tyranny, which always underlines ISLAMIC authority.

In today's world, only a liar would deny, that ISLAM's 'example', is one of a clear history of always seeking to erase every thought, every honest expression of man, which attempts to critically and truthfully scrutinise the real 'form' of ISLAM.

A wicked, corrupt beast.



And when anyone asks a moslem, today, to give an example of a good, and just, benevolent Sharia society, a virtuous society based in ISLAMIC law, today, no moslem can point to such an example.

Not in all of the ISLAMIC world, is there even one example, of such a virtuous society.

And that is not surprising, because [almost always] examples of ISLAMIC and Sharia guided societies in the world today, are nests of oppression, depravity, corruption, violence, injustice, and human poverty.

Just as any rational person, would expect them to be.





+++

e.g.

Pakistan: Muslim businessman falsely accuses Christian rival of blasphemy, forces him to flee, mob sets fire to his shop

....how Pakistan's blasphemy laws are so easily abused and used to victimize non-Muslims. "Pakistan: Sialkot: Muslim businessman uses blasphemy law against Christian rival," from SperoNews, May 12:
.....Ten years ago, Gulzar Masih opened a bookstore in Druman Wala Chowk, a Sialkot neighbourhood, along with a Muslim associate Abdul Rauf. As business increased, they bought a bigger store.
    “As soon as the business started growing, Abdul Rauf wanted to take over the business. Some issues started between the partners, and ultimately in 2009 the Delight Book Shop was divided into two shops, Delight Books and New Delight Books,” said Fr Anwar Feroze, who knows the victim. “However, because Gulzar Masih had good contacts with suppliers, his business grew. Rauf was not happy with that and quarrelled with his old partner.”

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/pakistan-muslim-businessman-falsely-accuses-ch...



No professed 'virtue' within ISLAM, is ever a virtue.

e.g.
The "covenant of protection" for non-moslems.

More examples of how the "covenant of protection" for non-moslems is universally and systematically abused and circumvented [by moslems], so as to always keep non-moslem minorities in a state of constant fear of the moslem majority...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/blasphemy/


Google;
falsely accused of blasphemy



Google;
abuse of blasphemy laws


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« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2011 at 9:02am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: Abu and Les deflecting death for apostasy
Reply #14 - Sep 28th, 2011 at 3:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 9:50pm:
Abu, can you explain to us how Islam instructs Muslims to approach testimony given in court by non-Muslims?


Also covered in the Common Misconceptions thread. And I've told you that before. Why you continually ask for it to be repeated for you is beyond me.

freediver wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 9:50pm:
What if the non-Muslim used to be a Muslim? You can hardly claim that Islam protects non-Muslims while at the same time calling for them to be stoned to death.


What if a traitor used to be a patriot in a Western country? You could hardly claim secular democracy protects people, whilst at the same time electrocuting them to death or injecting them with toxic poisons.

freediver wrote on Sep 27th, 2011 at 9:50pm:
What 'protection' does Islam offer those who are not from an Abrahamic religion? Every time I ask this you seem to post examples of where Muslims strayed from Islam and allowed them to live but avoid explaining what Islam actually calls for.


You've lost me with this one. Where have I ever stated anything about Muslims straying from Islam? Islam, since its earliest days, ruled over an entire sub-continent of adherents to non-Abrahamic religions, there is your example.
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