Australian Politics Forum - Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #30 - May 15^th, 2013 at 7:10am

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 7:01pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

"If god doesn't exist, everything is permitted - Dostoyevsky" - so how can you have complaints on an atheist forum??

If a moral code doesn't exist, everything is permitted. - Not Dostoyevsky, but still true.

You gotta love those lightning strikes when people do what is not permitted though.

Quote:

We dont know if every person perceives colors in the same way. Big Deal.

muso 2013

I love the sleight of hand. Atheism doesn't include a moral code, so no Atheists have a moral code.

It's about as logical as saying that coffee itself doesn't contain sugar, so coffee drinkers must drink coffee without sugar. If you add a moral system to Atheism, it's no longer Atheism. It's Humanism - meh!

If you add sugar to coffee, it becomes a mixture of coffee and sugar. It's no longer coffee.

Pssst - Dostoyevsky exaggerated, and I'll tell you something else - He knew that he was exaggerating. Wink

I think we'd all know or know of overtly devoutly religious people (i.e. regular church / temple attendees) who live their lives by a considerably less moral code than they preach. And, of course, there'd be many atheists who'd subscribe to the same hypocrisy...

A prescriptive moral code is a feature common to all religions - its really a sine qua non.

It does not follow from that, however that atheists must necessarily therefore not subscribe to any moral code... Being that its also true that it is possible to live life as a Jew / Christian / Muslim etc (including lip-syncing at all the right times - and many do - 'Milli Vanilli Theists' if you would) and not entertain any belief that god exists...

As the it goes...
Quote:

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Walt Whitman

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Yadda

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #31 - May 16^th, 2013 at 7:38pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 15^th, 2013 at 7:10am:

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 7:01pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

"If god doesn't exist, everything is permitted - Dostoyevsky" - so how can you have complaints on an atheist forum??

If a moral code doesn't exist, everything is permitted. - Not Dostoyevsky, but still true.

You gotta love those lightning strikes when people do what is not permitted though.

Quote:

We dont know if every person perceives colors in the same way. Big Deal.

muso 2013

I love the sleight of hand. Atheism doesn't include a moral code, so no Atheists have a moral code.

It's about as logical as saying that coffee itself doesn't contain sugar, so coffee drinkers must drink coffee without sugar. If you add a moral system to Atheism, it's no longer Atheism. It's Humanism - meh!

If you add sugar to coffee, it becomes a mixture of coffee and sugar. It's no longer coffee.

Pssst - Dostoyevsky exaggerated, and I'll tell you something else - He knew that he was exaggerating. Wink

I think we'd all know or know of overtly devoutly religious people (i.e. regular church / temple attendees) who live their lives by a considerably less moral code than they preach. And, of course, there'd be many atheists who'd subscribe to the same hypocrisy...

A prescriptive moral code is a feature common to all religions - its really a sine qua non.

No argument.

I am not overtly religious in RL [but a number of my neighbours and friends know that i have a faith and they know that i read teh bible, because i do not hide it].

But i must still live in this world.

And, like everyone else, i am still seduced by the pleasures in this world.

There is no escaping this present reality.

But i [actively] try not to focus on the desires i may have in the world.

Quote:

It does not follow from that, however that atheists must necessarily therefore not subscribe to any moral code... Being that its also true that it is possible to live life as a Jew / Christian / Muslim etc (including lip-syncing at all the right times - and many do - 'Milli Vanilli Theists' if you would) and not entertain any belief that god exists...

I certainly do not count [all] atheists as immoral people.

I just see people without faith as mistaken.

And i think that [personally, formally] having a 'religious' faith like Christianity or Judaism,etc. simply brings the focus of that the 'moral code' [that comes with the philosophy that we have chosen to embrace] to our attention more frequently.

e.g.
Being a Christian, i am encouraged by my faith to frequently read the bible scripture.
And reading the bible, will often bring into mental focus the moral issues that i am reading about.

Whereas an atheist may have less mental 'cause' to focus upon moral issues [than a person of 'faith'] ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #32 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:11pm

Yadda wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

I think we'd all know or know of overtly devoutly religious people (i.e. regular church / temple attendees) who live their lives by a considerably less moral code than they preach. And, of course, there'd be many atheists who'd subscribe to the same hypocrisy...

A prescriptive moral code is a feature common to all religions - its really a sine qua non.

No argument.

I am not overtly religious in RL [but a number of my neighbours and friends know that i have a faith and they know that i read teh bible, because i do not hide it].

But i must still live in this world.

And, like everyone else, i am still seduced by the pleasures in this world.

There is no escaping this present reality.

But i [actively] try not to focus on the desires i may have in the world.

Good for you, Yadda... Nice to read you acknowledge your own humanity.

Yadda wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

It does not follow from that, however that atheists must necessarily therefore not subscribe to any moral code... Being that its also true that it is possible to live life as a Jew / Christian / Muslim etc (including lip-syncing at all the right times - and many do - 'Milli Vanilli Theists' if you would) and not entertain any belief that god exists...

I certainly do not count [all] atheists as immoral people.

I just see people without faith as mistaken.

And i think that [personally, formally] having a 'religious' faith like Christianity or Judaism,etc. simply brings the focus of that the 'moral code' [that comes with the philosophy that we have chosen to embrace] to our attention more frequently.

e.g.
Being a Christian, i am encouraged by my faith to frequently read the bible scripture.
And reading the bible, will often bring into mental focus the moral issues that i am reading about.

Whereas an atheist may have less mental 'cause' to focus upon moral issues [than a person of 'faith'] ?

Atheists have the same reasons to subscribe to a moral code as you do.

And they seek and find it from the same sources that you do... From their experiences, from their humanity, from their cultural roots, from their cultural religious roots... And (like you) they draw from those learnings the things that inform them via their search for the answer to the great ethical question "How should we live?"... That is not a religious question... Its a human question.

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Yadda

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #33 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:33pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 9:11pm:

Yadda wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

I think we'd all know or know of overtly devoutly religious people (i.e. regular church / temple attendees) who live their lives by a considerably less moral code than they preach. And, of course, there'd be many atheists who'd subscribe to the same hypocrisy...

A prescriptive moral code is a feature common to all religions - its really a sine qua non.

No argument.

I am not overtly religious in RL [but a number of my neighbours and friends know that i have a faith and they know that i read teh bible, because i do not hide it].

But i must still live in this world.

And, like everyone else, i am still seduced by the pleasures in this world.

There is no escaping this present reality.

But i [actively] try not to focus on the desires i may have in the world.

Good for you, Yadda... Nice to read you acknowledge your own humanity.

I am challenged by it every day.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #34 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:36pm

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 7:01pm:

Soren wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

"If god doesn't exist, everything is permitted - Dostoyevsky" - so how can you have complaints on an atheist forum??

If a moral code doesn't exist, everything is permitted. - Not Dostoyevsky, but still true.

You gotta love those lightning strikes when people do what is not permitted though.

Quote:

We dont know if every person perceives colors in the same way. Big Deal.

muso 2013

I love the sleight of hand. Atheism doesn't include a moral code, so no Atheists have a moral code.

It's about as logical as saying that coffee itself doesn't contain sugar, so coffee drinkers must drink coffee without sugar. If you add a moral system to Atheism, it's no longer Atheism. It's Humanism - meh!

If you add sugar to coffee, it becomes a mixture of coffee and sugar. It's no longer coffee.

Pssst - Dostoyevsky exaggerated, and I'll tell you something else - He knew that he was exaggerating. Wink

LOVE the analogy. So you.

Pssst - the point is that atheism has no moral dimension. Whatever morality it does have is imported from outside atheism, from sources that are based on anything but not atheism.

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Yadda

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Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum
Reply #35 - May 16^th, 2013 at 9:55pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 9:11pm:

Yadda wrote on May 16^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

It does not follow from that, however that atheists must necessarily therefore not subscribe to any moral code... Being that its also true that it is possible to live life as a Jew / Christian / Muslim etc (including lip-syncing at all the right times - and many do - 'Milli Vanilli Theists' if you would) and not entertain any belief that god exists...

I certainly do not count [all] atheists as immoral people.

I just see people without faith as mistaken.

And i think that [personally, formally] having a 'religious' faith like Christianity or Judaism,etc. simply brings the focus of that the 'moral code' [that comes with the philosophy that we have chosen to embrace] to our attention more frequently.

e.g.
Being a Christian, i am encouraged by my faith to frequently read the bible scripture.
And reading the bible, will often bring into mental focus the moral issues that i am reading about.

Whereas an atheist may have less mental 'cause' to focus upon moral issues [than a person of 'faith'] ?

Atheists have the same reasons to subscribe to a moral code as you do.

And they seek and find it from the same sources that you do...

North,

I do not see this.

IMO, many most ppl are 'lost in the world'.

i.e.
From my own perspective, i can see that many ppl are focused [almost?] solely upon seeking the pleasures that this world offers to them.

They are distracted away from the righteousness of God.

It is a mistake, imo.

Quote:

From their experiences, from their humanity, from their cultural roots, from their cultural religious roots... And (like you) they draw from those learnings the things that inform them via their search for the answer to the great ethical question "How should we live?"... That is not a religious question... Its a human question.

It is a human question.

But.....

what is that quote that comes to mind ???

"We had thought that we were human beings making a spiritual journey; it may be truer to say that we are spiritual beings making a human journey."

Teilhard de Chardin

Are atheists, spiritually safe ???

My philosophy [my religion] says that a moral person not 'in fath', will not be condemned by my God.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

TO BELIEVE GOD'S TESTIMONY

But in choosing to believe God, we testify that we acknowledge our own human error, and accept God's righteousness.

Unfortunately, imo many atheists do this....

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Many atheists see no error, in their knowledge.

Or, is it, that in their knowledge, many atheists can see no error [to repent of] ?

After all [they could reason], if i am in error, i have no need to apologise to anyone [else] - i am the arbiter of my choices/values.

wow

That is what 'the powers that be' in this world are want to teach us;

That i have no need to apologise to anyone [else] - i am the arbiter of my choices/values.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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capitosinora Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2172 USA Florida Gender:	Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum Reply #36 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 6:23pm Maybe.
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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2178 Gender:	Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum Reply #37 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am capitosinora wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 6:23pm: Maybe. How's China at this time of year? Does every post really earn you 5 fen?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Complaints about the mod in the Atheism Sub Forum Reply #38 - Dec 10^th, 2023 at 4:55pm *This Topic was moved here from Atheism* by freediver.**
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