Australian Politics Forum - The Good Life

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style Reply #15 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:39pm I'm not sure I grasp what you mean by the 'good life'. I might just take a back seat until i can get a handle on it.
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Sappho

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #16 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:42pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:39pm:

I'm not sure I grasp what you mean by the 'good life'. I might just take a back seat until i can get a handle on it.

Previously, and very early in the piece I wrote...

Quote:

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

Does this help your understanding a little? Do you see any flaws in this concept of the good life?

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #17 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:44pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:39pm:

I'm not sure I grasp what you mean by the 'good life'. I might just take a back seat until i can get a handle on it.

Previously, and very early in the piece I wrote...

Quote:

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

Does this help your understanding a little? Do you see any flaws in this concept of the good life?

Yep, saw that and thought how it all revolved around yourself. Is there no greater good?

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Sappho

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #18 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:48pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:44pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:39pm:

I'm not sure I grasp what you mean by the 'good life'. I might just take a back seat until i can get a handle on it.

Previously, and very early in the piece I wrote...

Quote:

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

Does this help your understanding a little? Do you see any flaws in this concept of the good life?

Yep, saw that and thought how it all revolved around yourself. Is there no greater good?

I'm curious, how is it that reducing harm and increasing pleasure as well as fostering meaningful relationships become a self centred activity? Also, I'm not sure if there is a greater good, but that you ask the question seems to suggest that you have a concept of a greater good? Do you? Would you give me an example of what you mean?

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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Belgarion

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #19 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:52pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

Previously, and very early in the piece I wrote...

[quote]For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

That seems an almost Christian philosophy Sappho, do unto others etc. Although the church, as an institiution, was seriously opposed to most sorts of pleasure the basic philosophy is there.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #20 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:53pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:48pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:44pm:

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:39pm:

I'm not sure I grasp what you mean by the 'good life'. I might just take a back seat until i can get a handle on it.

Previously, and very early in the piece I wrote...

Quote:

For me for example, The Good Life, is about reducing harm, increasing pleasure and developing meaningful relationships/friendships with others and my principles and morals are drawn from that belief.

Does this help your understanding a little? Do you see any flaws in this concept of the good life?

Yep, saw that and thought how it all revolved around yourself. Is there no greater good?

I'm curious, how is it that reducing harm and increasing pleasure as well as fostering meaningful relationships become a self centred activity? Also, I'm not sure if there is a greater good, but that you ask the question seems to suggest that you have a concept of a greater good? Do you? Would you give me an example of what you mean?

I assumed that 'increasing pleasure' meant pleasure for yourself.

I don't really place any importance on a greater good. Some actions we take might have more far-reaching benefits, but they don't factor into my calculations, and I won't disadvantage myself or 'my own' for a bigger casue.

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Sappho

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #21 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:59pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:53pm:

I assumed that 'increasing pleasure' meant pleasure for yourself.

I understand. And in some senses that is true. If I act in a way that increases the pleasure experienced by another, then my levels of pleasure will increase also. It feels good to be good you see. Equally, if I can reduce the suffering of another, then again, my sense of pleasure has increased because I'm feeling good about making another feel better.

But as you can see, the acts of reducing harm and increasing pleasure are more about our impact on others than it is about self gratification.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #22 - Jul 7^th, 2011 at 6:11pm

Sappho wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:59pm:

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 5:53pm:

I assumed that 'increasing pleasure' meant pleasure for yourself.

I understand. And in some senses that is true. If I act in a way that increases the pleasure experienced by another, then my levels of pleasure will increase also. It feels good to be good you see. Equally, if I can reduce the suffering of another, then again, my sense of pleasure has increased because I'm feeling good about making another feel better.

But as you can see, the acts of reducing harm and increasing pleasure are more about our impact on others than it is about self gratification.

Ahhhh but anthropologists have found that helping others is a viable survival strategy. By helping others, you increase the odds that they in turn will help you when you need it. What makes you so sure that THAT'S not what it's all about?

See how I tied that in with what i said before:

Quote:

So all our wants and dreams can be reduced to manifestations of the same animal instincts and impulses that any other beast lives by.

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freediver

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #23 - Jul 9^th, 2011 at 9:50am

What is the antonym of evil? This reminds me of the problem of evil debate. In the absence of evil, it is hard to figure out what good is.

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and I won't disadvantage myself or 'my own' for a bigger casue.

You do it all the time.

Quote:

So all our wants and dreams can be reduced to manifestations of the same animal instincts and impulses that any other beast lives by.

Yet you deny those things in yourself. The example you gave of yourself is not a reflection of your animal instincts and impulses, but a supression of them. Humans practice extraordinary self control in sexual activity. This is not in the interests of the individual from a Darwinian perspective. Rather, individual drives are sacrificed for the benfit of the many.

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #24 - Jul 11^th, 2011 at 11:30am

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2011 at 9:50am:

What is the antonym of evil? This reminds me of the problem of evil debate. In the absence of evil, it is hard to figure out what good is.

Quote:

and I won't disadvantage myself or 'my own' for a bigger casue.

You do it all the time.

Quote:

So all our wants and dreams can be reduced to manifestations of the same animal instincts and impulses that any other beast lives by.

Yet you deny those things in yourself. The example you gave of yourself is not a reflection of your animal instincts and impulses, but a supression of them. Humans practice extraordinary self control in sexual activity. This is not in the interests of the individual from a Darwinian perspective. Rather, individual drives are sacrificed for the benfit of the many.

No, I wouldn't say 'deny' but of course the imulses need to be tempered - otherwise life would be very short and violent indeed. But whether we indulge our every whim or not, is not the same thing as recognising what is at the root of them.

I'd be interested in hearing you expand on how I disadvantage my own 'all the time' though.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47442 At my desk.	Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style Reply #25 - Jul 15^th, 2011 at 8:25pm For example, you take the time to go to the toilet, rather than crapping on the footpath, even in situations where you would not get caught.
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muso

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #26 - Jul 15^th, 2011 at 8:39pm

... wrote on Jul 7^th, 2011 at 6:11pm:

Ahhhh but anthropologists have found that helping others is a viable survival strategy. By helping others, you increase the odds that they in turn will help you when you need it. What makes you so sure that THAT'S not what it's all about?

Yeah, and some have suggested that religion gave an evolutionary benefit for the same reason. Hmmm so "God" evolved to improve our survival strategy... makes sense.

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Yadda

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #27 - Jul 17^th, 2011 at 2:15am

The Good Life - Atheist Style

Let me, as an 'outside' observer, try to define this atheist utopian 'ideal'. Grin

It is a life where we have a freedom to behave as we wish, without restraint.

But where nothing bad ever happens to anyone.

And nothing bad ever happens to anyone, because we [all of us atheists] all know how to 'behave', without doing anything wrong.

How'd i do ???? hehe

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #28 - Jul 17^th, 2011 at 2:45am

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2011 at 2:15am:

The Good Life - Atheist Style

Let me, as an 'outside' observer, try to define this atheist utopian 'ideal'. Grin

It is a life where we have a freedom to behave as we wish, without restraint.

But where nothing bad ever happens to anyone.

And nothing bad ever happens to anyone, because we [all of us atheists] all know how to 'behave', without doing anything wrong.

How'd i do ???? hehe

About as dimwitted a response as could be expected...

George W Bush is a Christian isn't he? Seems his Christian values didn't stop him advancing a lie to make war when it was not necessary... Killing untold thousands of innocents... A crime for which his Christian-centric compatriots seem unwilling to make him accountable for.

Funny how they're so resolute when a President is caught up in a sex cover-up... But no worries when it comes to a President lying and causing the death of innocents.

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« Last Edit: Jul 17^th, 2011 at 2:51am by NorthOfNorth »

Conviction is the art of being certain

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Amadd

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Re: The Good Life - Atheist Style
Reply #29 - Jul 17^th, 2011 at 6:51am

Quote:

About as dimwitted a response as could be expected...

George W Bush is a Christian isn't he? Seems his Christian values didn't stop him advancing a lie to make war when it was not necessary... Killing untold thousands of innocents... A crime for which his Christian-centric compatriots seem unwilling to make him accountable for.

Funny how they're so resolute when a President is caught up in a sex cover-up... But no worries when it comes to a President lying and causing the death of innocents.

Here here!

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