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another ban on snapper fishing (Read 15250 times)
freediver
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 8:06pm
 
Quote:
Made it up then.


Are you suggesting it might be more than 0.1% Think about it before you answer. Or are you going to demand I prove something you don;t even disagree with?

Quote:
PS how is it cost effective to lock up 20% of all waters in the region just to manage one species that is not all that overfished?


By 'not all that overfished', do you mean snapper? If so, are you suggesting it could get a lot worse?

How far over the top would it have to go before you supported an alternative like marine parks?

Quote:
How do we know that there won't be closed seasons as well as extensive NTZ's


We don't. NTZs are not a guarantee, and you yourself argued against my suggestions that other limits should be relaxed as they are brought in. However, there will be much less need for them, because NTZs make fish populations inherently more stable.

Quote:
Also I told you before that the closed season is not for snapper but coral reef species.


Which closed season are you referring to?
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pjb05
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 8:17pm
 
[] Quote:
Made it up then.


Are you suggesting it might be more than 0.1% Think about it before you answer. Or are you going to demand I prove something you don;t even disagree with?

If I made that sort of claim you would (and have) demand that I must chase up some sort of proof.

Quote:
PS how is it cost effective to lock up 20% of all waters in the region just to manage one species that is not all that overfished?


By 'not all that overfished', do you mean snapper? If so, are you suggesting it could get a lot worse?

No I'm suggesting that it won't take much in the way of further restrictions to fix a minor problem.

Quote:
How do we know that there won't be closed seasons as well as extensive NTZ's


We don't. NTZs are not a guarantee, and you yourself argued against my suggestions that other limits should be relaxed as they are brought in. However, there will be much less need for them, because NTZs make fish populations inherently more stable.

That's an unfounded claim. And you ignore the considerable cost of having 20% NTZ's when more targeted measures will do in the case of snapper. 

Quote:
Also I told you before that the closed season is not for snapper but coral reef species.


Which closed season are you referring to?

Are you intent of just playing dumb? The closed season on the southern GBR for coral reef species - get it?
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freediver
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #17 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:09pm
 
Quote:
If I made that sort of claim you would (and have) demand that I must chase up some sort of proof.


No PJ. It is a pretty simple matter of putting things into perspective. That is why all I suggested is that you think about it before responding.

Quote:
That's an unfounded claim. And you ignore the considerable cost of having 20% NTZ's when more targeted measures will do in the case of snapper.


Other than incessant whinging from a minority of fishermen, what is this considerable cost?

Quote:
Are you intent of just playing dumb? The closed season on the southern GBR for coral reef species - get it?


The GBR is a big place. I am not going to bother trying to figure out what you are on about.
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pjb05
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #18 - Jun 6th, 2011 at 4:49pm
 
Quote:
That's an unfounded claim. And you ignore the considerable cost of having 20% NTZ's when more targeted measures will do in the case of snapper.


Other than incessant whinging from a minority of fishermen, what is this considerable cost?

What do you think was the cost of just the GBRMP?

Quote:
Are you intent of just playing dumb? The closed season on the southern GBR for coral reef species - get it?


The GBR is a big place. I am not going to bother trying to figure out what you are on about.

I said the Southern GBR. If you want me to be more specific then the Cairns region (but not limited to this region).

PS: It is rather ironic that displaced commercial effort from the GBRMP closures has contributed to pressure on snapper stocks in SE Qld!

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« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2011 at 5:57pm by pjb05 »  
 
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Jason Crowther
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #19 - Jun 6th, 2011 at 4:51pm
 
Looks like you are wrong again Freediver
news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/wa-report-raises-doubts-over-marine-parks
-20110602-1fhy5.html
Quote:
Research funded by the federal government has raised doubts about the effectiveness of its proposed expansion of marine parks in Western Australian.

The commonwealth-funded joint study by the WA Department of Fisheries and Murdoch University found fishing activity was not having a major impact on fish stocks in the state's four marine bio-regions.

The report found there was no reduction in the average fish stocks within the West Coast, South Coast, Gascoyne, Pilbara or Kimberley bio-regions which would be expected if larger species were being over-fished.

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freediver
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #20 - Jun 6th, 2011 at 10:33pm
 
What am I wrong about Jason?
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Jason Crowther
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #21 - Jun 6th, 2011 at 11:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2011 at 10:33pm:
What am I wrong about Jason?

The premise of your initial post of course. The science says you are wrong
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Jason Crowther
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #22 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 1:34am
 
Bump waiting for FDs admission
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #23 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 2:05pm
 
I'm always amazed at the mentality of Fisheries to state there is no 'demise' in Fish Stocks from the norm (normal).
Considering the 'norm' would have been the Australian waters BEFORE the start of Commercial Fishing about 140+ years ago.
Roll Eyes

You would hope the mentality would change soon one day to see an Australian Aquatic Entity (that involves Commercial Fishing as well)
proliferate Fish Stocks from the 'norm' into the positive equation.

But instead, we have to put up with silly 'scientific' drivel that side-steps the obvious as if the Australian Public doesn't care or even understands ...or sees the obvious. Roll Eyes

...well 200,000 people registered in 1 week towards buying the meat produce from Indpendents that treat their Cows more humanely and are killed by 'order', not mass production.

Sounds like 'Change' to me. Wink

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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #24 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 2:12pm
 
Ban commercial fishing, and have small 'no-catch zones'

No matter which way you try to spin it, the oceans are getting fished out.  There needs to be a generation or 2 for stocks to recover.  Sure, fishermen will cry foul, but if they keep on the way they're going, there won't be anything for them to catch soon enough.
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #25 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:51pm
 
They just go into other people's and nation's zones/waters.
They get better technology to grab whatever they missed previously.
The put more fishing rods on the beach per person.
The change the laws to suit themselves and not the Fish Stocks.
They consider the 'thousands' of other extinct species as "not a precedence to consider".
Its all about the Commercial Fishing $$$ and 'their' jobs ...rather than the many more jobs created by saving the Fish Stocks for LONG TERM resource and employment.
Look what happened to Canada and the drastic action they had to take upon their own Fishing Fleets, let alone any Foreign Fleet 'straddling' their National Ocean bounderies.

...even the ALP is trying to 'cash in' on the Conservation/Environmental scene because they know its the most popular national Topic and where the money is these days.
Lucky for them, the Greens are still 'dormant'.
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #26 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:51pm
 
... wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 2:12pm:
Ban commercial fishing, and have small 'no-catch zones'

No matter which way you try to spin it, the oceans are getting fished out.  There needs to be a generation or 2 for stocks to recover.  Sure, fishermen will cry foul, but if they keep on the way they're going, there won't be anything for them to catch soon enough.


What evidence do you have that Australian waters are overfished?

Given that they are not, how much sense does it make importing all our seafood from waters more heavily fished than our own?
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #27 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 5:11pm
 
pjb05 wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:51pm:
... wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 2:12pm:
Ban commercial fishing, and have small 'no-catch zones'

No matter which way you try to spin it, the oceans are getting fished out.  There needs to be a generation or 2 for stocks to recover.  Sure, fishermen will cry foul, but if they keep on the way they're going, there won't be anything for them to catch soon enough.


What evidence do you have that Australian waters are overfished?

Given that they are not, how much sense does it make importing all our seafood from waters more heavily fished than our own?



What evidence do I have?  Hmmm...well when I was a kid you could easily catch plenty of good sized fish around metro areas. Now, there's nuthin.  And this same sentiment is echoed from all over.

C'mon aren't we past all that?  It's plain to see that overfishing has caused fish stocks to plummet, and if we keep on the way we have been, they will continue to plummet until they reach the point of no return.

And why?  So yuppies can have their omega-3 tablets, and cause professional fisherman can't be arsed getting another job.  I like fish as much as the next man, but I go without for the sake of future generations.  Fat lot of good it'll do when there's millions more who don't care.
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pjb05
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #28 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 5:19pm
 
... wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 5:11pm:
pjb05 wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:51pm:
[quote author=WESLEY.PIPES link=1307150085/15#24 date=1307419959]Ban commercial fishing, and have small 'no-catch zones'

No matter which way you try to spin it, the oceans are getting fished out.  There needs to be a generation or 2 for stocks to recover.  Sure, fishermen will cry foul, but if they keep on the way they're going, there won't be anything for them to catch soon enough.


What evidence do you have that Australian waters are overfished?

Given that they are not, how much sense does it make importing all our seafood from waters more heavily fished than our own?



What evidence do I have?  Hmmm...well when I was a kid you could easily catch plenty of good sized fish around metro areas. Now, there's nuthin.  And this same sentiment is echoed from all over.

Maybe you should brush up on your fishing skills - that's if you actually go fishing. I live in Sydney and there's plenty of fish. I catch more than when I was a kid that's for sure (of course I am a better fisherman now).

C'mon aren't we past all that?  It's plain to see that overfishing has caused fish stocks to plummet, and if we keep on the way we have been, they will continue to plummet until they reach the point of no return.

Are you familiar with the concept of maximum sustainable yield? Is 'plain to see' just code for your poor fishing skills?

And why?  So yuppies can have their omega-3 tablets, and cause professional fisherman can't be arsed getting another job.  I like fish as much as the next man, but I go without for the sake of future generations.  Fat lot of good it'll do when there's millions more who don't care.

How about some facts instead of mushy platitudes. What evidence do you have that we are overfished?
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Re: another ban on snapper fishing
Reply #29 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 5:22pm
 
LOL.  Yeah dude,  I was a much better fisherman when I was 8. 

That's exactly what it is.  Nothing at all to do with ocean life being pillaged for material gain.
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