Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism a Religion?

muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #30 - May 6^th, 2011 at 10:42pm

Grey wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 9:44pm:

muso wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 8:31pm:

freediver wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 7:56pm:

But they are speaking for you. No-one else is.

I can speak for myself

Anarcho-Atheist

The term 'atheist' to me means a person who doesn't believe in any god, and the term god is defined by the various individual religions. They are all different. I have therefore invented my own religion in which god is a mass psycho-social phenomenon with all the natural powers of the people who belief in a god. God is a kind of neural network of living people. I am therefore a theist with no supernatural beliefs. If you want a label, you could call me a Bright. It's sufficiently vague.

I don't use the term 'atheist' because I don't define my world view in terms of anybody else's religious beliefs. I prefer to talk about things that matter to me - things that I do believe in.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #31 - May 6^th, 2011 at 11:12pm Did you Mod me Sappho? Or did I post to another of your atheist topics?
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Emma

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #32 - May 6^th, 2011 at 11:20pm

OK OK - answered my own q. 000.

But re this one -

Answer

NO - its a decision made by individuals, - and I confess to not knowing about the AFA?? But- seriously?
I might suss out if folks I meet are religious or not, if it gets that far, so that I don't offend any tender sensibilities, but a 'religion?. A La in opposition to other 'religions'??

Jesus Christ, I don't believe it!!!! Cheesy

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Amadd

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #33 - May 7^th, 2011 at 3:27am

This subject has been gone over ad nauseum on other threads and will no doubt resurface once again when this thread has run it's natural (never ending) course of failing to bring about a "one size fits all" solution.

The general opinion usually ends up being that religious people will continue to assert that athiests are religious, contrary to their position of "no religion" and no real following of what anybody thinks that they heard God say.

Without an accepted definition of God, it's very difficult to define that in which people are believing or disbelieving.
I haven' seen a concise and accepted definition of "God" yet. All I know is that I don't believe wholly in the defintions that I've seen or heard thus far.

IMO, the word "religion" and "superstition" can be interchanged freely.
..and from that standpoint, I would agree that people who believe in a lucky rabbit's foot, seven years bad luck for breaking a mirror, walking under a ladder..etc., are following a religion of sorts, because they act as if there is a higher power that will react upon their actions.

This leads me to an athiest viewpoint, which is more defined by believing through experience. We know that walking under a ladder won't lead to seven years of bad luck, and we know that praying to God will not actualise a specific outcome.
We also know that considering any religious viewpoint as nothing more than a "human" personal opinion will not bring about a wrath of god and dire consequences for all mankind.

What we do know is that there are scientific laws which we are bound by here on this earth. They are forever mysterious, but always open to discovery. The results of scientific findings far outweigh those of prayers and faith in superstition.
Could it be that God's word has been misinterpreted by the devoutly religious? I think so.

Obviouisly the words "Atheism" and "Science" are closely related. And rightly so.
Who in their right mind would prefer that which doesn't bring about real results here on this earth over those that do?ii
i

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #34 - May 7^th, 2011 at 7:24am

Amadd wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 3:27am:

The general opinion usually ends up being that religious people will continue to assert that athiests are religious, contrary to their position of "no religion" and no real following of what anybody thinks that they heard God say.

Just some religious people - not all. I don't claim that.

Quote:

IMO, the word "religion" and "superstition" can be interchanged freely.

IMO the word 'culture' can usually be substituted for 'religion'. To me it's just a cultural thing.

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freediver

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #35 - May 7^th, 2011 at 8:07am

Quote:

..and from that standpoint, I would agree that people who believe in a lucky rabbit's foot, seven years bad luck for breaking a mirror, walking under a ladder..etc., are following a religion of sorts, because they act as if there is a higher power that will react upon their actions.

A ladder above your head is high and is a source of power. If you don't respect it you may get smited.

Quote:

The results of scientific findings far outweigh those of prayers and faith in superstition.

How do you compare them?

Quote:

Obviouisly the words "Atheism" and "Science" are closely related. And rightly so.

How so? In the same way that apples and oranges are closely related?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #36 - May 7^th, 2011 at 2:21pm

muso wrote on May 6^th, 2011 at 10:42pm:

I have therefore invented my own religion in which god is a mass psycho-social phenomenon with all the natural powers of the people who belief in a god. God is a kind of neural network of living people. I am therefore a theist with no supernatural beliefs.

I wouldn't classify your opinion ('god' as a mass psycho-social phenomenon) as a religion... Certainly such an opinion does not require faith in the theistic sense (not, at least, in the traditional sense of the words).

That a subject is demonstrating a believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense) is easily observable and does not require of the observer any leap of faith.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #37 - May 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:21pm:

I wouldn't classify your opinion ('god' as a mass psycho-social phenomenon) as a religion... Certainly such an opinion does not require faith in the theistic sense (not, at least, in the traditional sense of the words).

That a subject is demonstrating a believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense) is easily observable and does not require of the observer any leap of faith.

Are you saying that nobody has faith in human nature?

Besides, who brought up faith? That all sounds very Abrahamic.

Quote:

Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.

Some dictionaries don't even attempt to define religion. So I'm free to define god any way that I like, and I'm free to define religion and theism any way I like too.

So lets talk about your atheist viewpoint. You say that you reject my psycho-social god. (because it's a god)

Can you see where I'm going with this?

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #38 - May 7^th, 2011 at 3:23pm freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 8:07am: Quote: Obviouisly the words "Atheism" and "Science" are closely related. And rightly so. How so? In the same way that apples and oranges are closely related? Are you saying that Atheists are all fruits?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #39 - May 7^th, 2011 at 3:31pm

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:21pm:

I wouldn't classify your opinion ('god' as a mass psycho-social phenomenon) as a religion... Certainly such an opinion does not require faith in the theistic sense (not, at least, in the traditional sense of the words).

That a subject is demonstrating a believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense) is easily observable and does not require of the observer any leap of faith.

Are you saying that nobody has faith in human nature?

No, I'm saying that one can easily observe a subject in the act of believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense)... It doesn't require faith without evidence to say of your observation of a theist at prayer that he/she is partaking in the act of believing in god and is subscribing to a ritual prescribed by religious text.

But I am saying that faith is a religious sine qua non.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #40 - May 7^th, 2011 at 9:49pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 3:31pm:

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:21pm:

I wouldn't classify your opinion ('god' as a mass psycho-social phenomenon) as a religion... Certainly such an opinion does not require faith in the theistic sense (not, at least, in the traditional sense of the words).

That a subject is demonstrating a believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense) is easily observable and does not require of the observer any leap of faith.

Are you saying that nobody has faith in human nature?

No, I'm saying that one can easily observe a subject in the act of believing-in-god (in a psycho-social sense)... It doesn't require faith without evidence to say of your observation of a theist at prayer that he/she is partaking in the act of believing in god and is subscribing to a ritual prescribed by religious text.

But I am saying that faith is a religious sine qua non.

You are just describing one aspect of my religion (Musoism)
As a matter of fact my religion has faith. My faith is in the interrelatedness of all people and in an improvable future in this world. I have faith that mankind will survive.

So I have a religion with Gods...faith, that makes perfect sense . This is an exception for your general term Atheism which you define as lacking of belief in any god.

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« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2011 at 9:56pm by muso »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #41 - May 7^th, 2011 at 9:56pm

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Ok well actually my religion has faith. My faith is in the interrelatedness of all people and in an improvable future in this world. I have faith that mankind will survive.

Interrelatedness hardly needs faith. We're all descended from those very few hominids whose genetic material gave rise to homo sapiens.

An improvable future doesn't need much faith either... Go to a graveyard and note the number of people (particularly males) who were dead by their early sixties... Or those who died young of minor infections.

Survive what? A comet collision?

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #42 - May 7^th, 2011 at 9:59pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Ok well actually my religion has faith. My faith is in the interrelatedness of all people and in an improvable future in this world. I have faith that mankind will survive.

Interrelatedness hardly needs faith. We're all descended from those very few hominids whose genetic material gave rise to homo sapiens.

An improvable future doesn't need much faith either... Go to a graveyard and note the number of people (particularly males) who were dead by their early sixties... Or those who died young of minor infections.

Survive what? A comet collision?

An improvable future needs a lot of faith in light of climate change and diminishing natural resources. I believe that we can overcome this obstacle.

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« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2011 at 10:06pm by muso »

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #43 - May 7^th, 2011 at 10:04pm

The other example is the Deist God. In other words the God of the gaps - the first cause. A non-interventionalist God.

An Atheist doesn't believe in this God either, even though there is no faith or religion involved. In the case of Deism, a God can just be one possible solution. A Deist might make a judgement that a God is the most elegant solution.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #44 - May 7^th, 2011 at 10:15pm

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:59pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:56pm:

muso wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Ok well actually my religion has faith. My faith is in the interrelatedness of all people and in an improvable future in this world. I have faith that mankind will survive.

Interrelatedness hardly needs faith. We're all descended from those very few hominids whose genetic material gave rise to homo sapiens.

An improvable future doesn't need much faith either... Go to a graveyard and note the number of people (particularly males) who were dead by their early sixties... Or those who died young of minor infections.

Survive what? A comet collision?

An improvable future needs a lot of faith in light of climate change and diminishing natural resources. I believe that we can overcome this obstacle.

And your so-called faith in this improvable future is informed by what? Faith in god? Or your sound understanding of the requisite science upon which we may rely to reverse (or at least survive) catastrophic events?

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