Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 45
Send Topic Print
Is Atheism a Religion? (Read 31166 times)
Sappho
Moderator
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1387
Gender: female
Is Atheism a Religion?
May 5th, 2011 at 7:11am
 
If actions speak louder than words, then the Atheist Foundation of Australia definitely view their organisation as a religion.

Quote:
In Australia the Atheist Foundation of Australia formally complained of religious discrimination to the Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission after being refused permission to put atheist advertising on buses. The offensive signs were to read: "Atheism — celebrate reason". APN Outdoor refused to run the ads, giving no reason for their refusal. The Atheist Foundation and Metro Tasmania reached a deal after conciliation was ordered by the Office of the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner. The signs will begin appearing on Tasmanian buses in 2010.* In March 2010, buses started carrying atheist signs in Melbourne.

source


Embarrassed
Back to top
 

"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 9028
Gender: male
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:13am
 
Would there be any atheists who would be prepared to die for the cause of atheism?
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Sappho
Moderator
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1387
Gender: female
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #2 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:18am
 
Probably not. But that doesn't mean that the AFA should demean atheism by using laws against religion discrimination to get what they want.

There are so many better ways of addressing their right to display billboards without having to admit itself a religion and claim discrimination for religious reasons.

It's wrong!
Back to top
 

"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 9028
Gender: male
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #3 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:52am
 
Sappho wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 7:18am:
Probably not. But that doesn't mean that the AFA should demean atheism by using laws against religion discrimination to get what they want.

Those would be the actions of anti-theists.

Sappho wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 7:18am:
There are so many better ways of addressing their right to display billboards without having to admit itself a religion and claim discrimination for religious reasons.

It's wrong!

That would be an act of conscious irony, as opposed to a conviction that atheism is a religion.

For if  they truly believed that atheism is a religion, then (ironically) atheists would b e obliged to take a stand against atheism under the same conditions and reasons for which they stand against theism.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #4 - May 5th, 2011 at 8:52am
 
The AFA is a religion.  Wink Some atheists are evangelical.
Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
David Nicholls
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #5 - May 5th, 2011 at 2:59pm
 
Sappho,

The Atheist Foundation of Australia had its signs disallowed because of decisions by management of a couple of transport and adverting companies.  The AFA considered it discrimination against Atheism that they acted in this manner.

This headline does not originate from the AFA,
“In Australia the Atheist Foundation of Australia formally complained of religious discrimination”


I hope this has cleared up your concerns.

Thank you

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
skippy.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17072
Gender: male
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #6 - May 5th, 2011 at 4:28pm
 
David Nicholls wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 2:59pm:
Sappho,

The Atheist Foundation of Australia had its signs disallowed because of decisions by management of a couple of transport and adverting companies.  The AFA considered it discrimination against Atheism that they acted in this manner.

This headline does not originate from the AFA,
“In Australia the Atheist Foundation of Australia formally complained of religious discrimination”


I hope this has cleared up your concerns.

Thank you

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia

Great to see you here,David.
Back to top
 

Abbott :As far as I am concerned,  we want to end the uncertainty by guaranteeing that no school will be worse off . So we will honour the agreements that Labor has entered into.
He lied.
 
IP Logged
 
Sappho
Moderator
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1387
Gender: female
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #7 - May 5th, 2011 at 5:07pm
 
David,

I do not dispute that the AFA was denied the right to speak freely on atheism. The billboards that you wanted to display were legal and not offensive, irrespective of the opinions of theists. However to invoke the Tasmanian Anti-Discrimination Act due to religious discrimination was the wrong way to go about things and puts Atheism into a questionable light given that atheists in general and the AFA in particular would normally deny religious labels.  

Quote:
Tasmania Anti-Discrimination Act 1998 (TAS)

Grounds of unlawful discrimination

Age, breastfeeding, disability, family responsibilities, gender, industrial activity, irrelevant criminal record, irrelevant medical record, lawful sexual activity, marital status, relationship status, parental status, political activity, political belief or affiliation, pregnancy, race, religious activity, religious beliefs or affiliation, sexual orientation, association with a person who has, or is believed to have any of these attributes.

source


The right to speak freely in Australia is an implied right only and cannot be enforced in an Australian Court of Law. The AFA is well placed and well networked globally to pressure the Australian Govt. to honour their signatory obligations to the UN General Assembly.

If you want the right to speak freely to be an explicit right, then you need to address the Australian Govt. signatory obligations rather than seek to demean Atheism through the use of religious discrimination laws.  

Quote:
In 1948 the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Article 19 affirms the right to free speech:

Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.(1)

Members of the Commonwealth Parliament reaffirmed the principles of the Declaration during a sitting on 10 December 1998 to mark the 50th anniversary of the UDHR and pledged to give wholehearted support to the principles enshrined in the Declaration.(2)

Article 19 of the 1966 United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) states that:

Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression ... (3)

Australia is a signatory to this treaty(4) and, in order to incorporate treaties and conventions into Australian law, governments must pass a specific Act of Parliament. Although some parts of the treaty have been implemented into law, such as the Human Rights Commission Act 1981,(5) no government has implemented the free speech provisions and therefore they are not enforceable by Australian courts.
source


I think you should have shown more conviction and courage. The AFA could have had a wealth of support from numerous reputable organisations to ensure our right to free speech is enshrined in law. More kudos to those that dare to win honourably.

PS: Welcome and I hope you stay around to discuss other matters on atheism. It would be an honour.

Regards
Sappho.
Back to top
 

"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 25061
I like fish
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #8 - May 5th, 2011 at 6:22pm
 
yes
Back to top
 

Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger - Franklin P. Jones
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sappho
Moderator
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 1387
Gender: female
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #9 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:24pm
 
freediver wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 6:22pm:
yes


Aside from the use of religious discrimination laws, what makes you think it is a religion?
Back to top
 

"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."
 
IP Logged
 
David Nicholls
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #10 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:24pm
 
Sappho,

There are far more urgent fish to fry than carrying on with this.  You may think it important a point but most others don’t.

To approach the Australian government would have taken a tremendous amount of time and would most likely be unsuccessful.  The worldwide bus sign campaign couldn’t wait for that.

We are already petitioning the United Nations about Australia’s pathetic discrimination laws but that will take years. And the Australian Government does not have to take any notice even if the conclusion is in the favour of sanity.

Why not concentrate on how to assist with Atheism rather than nit picking about that which is ostensibly unimportant.

The AFA is keeping Atheism alive in this country by concentrating on the real world, not some arbitrary selection of perceived weaknesses.  Have a look at our record and compare it with yours or any other group.

One has to wonder why you bother with such trifling nonsense.

This is my end post on the matter

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 25061
I like fish
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #11 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:39pm
 
It is a belief regarding the existence of deities that has no rational foundation.
Back to top
 

Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger - Franklin P. Jones
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 25061
I like fish
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #12 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:41pm
 
David Nicholls wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 7:24pm:
Sappho,

There are far more urgent fish to fry than carrying on with this.  You may think it important a point but most others don’t.

To approach the Australian government would have taken a tremendous amount of time and would most likely be unsuccessful.  The worldwide bus sign campaign couldn’t wait for that.

We are already petitioning the United Nations about Australia’s pathetic discrimination laws but that will take years. And the Australian Government does not have to take any notice even if the conclusion is in the favour of sanity.

Why not concentrate on how to assist with Atheism rather than nit picking about that which is ostensibly unimportant.

The AFA is keeping Atheism alive in this country by concentrating on the real world, not some arbitrary selection of perceived weaknesses.  Have a look at our record and compare it with yours or any other group.

One has to wonder why you bother with such trifling nonsense.

This is my end post on the matter

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia.


David, your view makes sense if you see atheism as a religion that must be proselytised.
Back to top
 

Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger - Franklin P. Jones
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 25061
I like fish
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #13 - May 5th, 2011 at 7:50pm
 
David Nicholls wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 2:59pm:
Sappho,

The Atheist Foundation of Australia had its signs disallowed because of decisions by management of a couple of transport and adverting companies.  The AFA considered it discrimination against Atheism that they acted in this manner.

This headline does not originate from the AFA,
“In Australia the Atheist Foundation of Australia formally complained of religious discrimination”


I hope this has cleared up your concerns.

Thank you

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia


Dave, people are allowed to discriminate against ideologies. It is a good idea. It is discrimination against people that can be pursued legally, on the basis of things like sexual orientation, religion etc. On what basis were you discriminated against?
Back to top
 

Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger - Franklin P. Jones
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grey
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5341
Gender: male
Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #14 - May 5th, 2011 at 8:27pm
 
muso wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 8:52am:
The AFA is a religion.  Wink Some atheists are evangelical.


Would being an antispamist and pointing out that Nigerian scammers are con artists make me an evangelical and 'antispam' a religion?
Back to top
 

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 45
Send Topic Print