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Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help. (Read 15761 times)
imcrookonit
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Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
May 1st, 2011 at 11:14am
 
Does a family earning $115,000 deserve help? It's a slippery issue.

WITH three children, a mortgage, two cars and a small business, Liz and Phil Murray may be the typical Australian working family.

Mr Murray, 39, is a full-time IT consultant, while Mrs Murray, 37, runs a speech pathology business, which employs three other people. Officially, she is part-time, but jokes she is on ''48 hours a day''.

To cut childcare costs for Jessica, 3, and Catherine, six months, Mrs Murray works on Saturdays, and her mother babysits one day a week. But even so, the bill for childcare, and after-school care for Thomas, 5, is about $800 a fortnight.


''We work every day, come home, and do the best we can,'' Mrs Murray says. ''There are families that do it a lot tougher, but we pretty well battle day-to-day.''

The Murrays may be the sort of people Julia Gillard was thinking of when, in March, she spoke of Australians who work hard and set their ''alarm clocks early''.

But with a family income of about $115,000 a year - which will rise to $150,000 a year when Liz returns to full-time work - the Murrays are also in the government's firing line. 

Not only does their income place them squarely in the middle class, they also rely on various forms of ''middle-class welfare'' to make ends meet. They receive the health insurance rebate, a $1600 childcare rebate every three months, and - depending on how much Mrs Murray earns - family tax benefit A. They also receive $105 a fortnight for Thomas, who has Asperger's syndrome, and a grant for speech and behaviour therapy.

Without the help, Mrs Murray says she would struggle to keep working, jeopardising her business. Even now, Mr Murray says, they feel as if they are caught in a vicious circle. ''Liz is basically working so the kids can go to childcare,'' he says.

Having foreshadowed a tough budget for May 10, Labor has been flirting with a crackdown on middle-class welfare as it looks to meet its promise of returning the budget to surplus by 2012-13.

There are suggestions of plans to means-test the childcare tax rebate for families earning more than $150,000, along with another attempt to means-test the private health insurance rebate for families earning more than $160,000.

If successful, it would be the latest ALP move to means-test a range of Howard-era payments. These moves are backed by such groups as the Australian Council of Social Services, which has called for ''bold action'' to cut payments to high-income earners, and economists such as Saul Eslake from the Grattan Institute. ''In my view, there's little good done by giving people who are perfectly capable of looking after themselves and their dependents money raised by higher taxes on other people,'' Mr Eslake says.

But middle-class welfare is a slippery issue - derided in some quarters, but defended by many who benefit from it.

An outcry from businesses, unions, childcare centres and parents followed reports of a new means test for the childcare rebate. Despite its calls for Labor to rein in spending, the opposition criticised the measure.

In a country where almost everyone considers themselves middle class, it can be hard to define middle-class welfare, and at what point it should cut out. In its attempts to means-test various benefits, Labor has returned to a household income of $150,000 a year as the threshhold.

But Mr Eslake says this should be lowered, perhaps to about $125,000, adding that all households should still have access to Medicare and other support if they have high medical bills.

But some believe $150,000 is too low, especially with the rising cost of living and housing affordability problems. With average full-time earnings about $68,900 a year, a family with two parents on average salaries would come very close to this threshhold.

''It seems that families who have struggled and worked hard to get themselves into good positions are the ones who are being targeted,'' says Gwynn Bridge, president of the Australian Child Care Centre Alliance.

The Howard government used middle-class welfare to achieve various ends, such as greater uptake of private health insurance. The family tax benefits were billed not as income support but a ''recognition of the costs associated with being a parent''.

For critics such as Mr Eslake, this philosophy is the problem. ''People should get assistance from the government not because of what they are - people with children or people over the age of 65 or people who choose to take out private health insurance - but because of their income,'' he says.

Some, such as Gerry Redmond of the University of New South Wales' social policy research centre, warn that cuts to family assistance could have unintended consequences, such as deterring people from earning more. In Liz Murray's case, withdrawing the childcare rebate could force her from the workforce, destroying a small business in the process. As she notes, it wouldn't be such an issue for those on far more than $150,000 a year. ''It is the families in the middle that get impacted the most by these sorts of decisions.''


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imcrookonit
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #1 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:19am
 
With a family income of about $115,000 a year - which will rise to $150,000 a year - the Murrays are also in the governments firing line.
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mavisdavis
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #2 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:20am
 
You really do have "everything envy", don`t you.
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Equitist
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #3 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am
 



How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Equitist
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #4 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:29am
 


I posted these comments elsewhere - and they are equally relevant here...

Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:18am:
Much so-called 'middle-class welfare' is delivered outside of Centrelink - and is effectively-reverse-means-tested - hence it is better termed as 'WEALTHfare'!

Most Centrelink 'clients' must regularly jump through ridiculous 'mutual obligation' hoops and consent to draconian privacy invasions - whilst non-Centrelink WEALTHfare is delivered without much socio-economic scrutiny and with little intrusion.

The WEALTHfare payments are largely automatic, single tick-a-box items (with corresponding $ entries) and administered either directly by the ATO or cross-referenced to the ATO - there are no 'mutual obligation' requirements and claims are rarely audited for accuracy or fraud.  The benefits are often large and lump-sum and the mechanisms are distortionary.

One thing that commentators serially fail to acknowledge - and cost-cutting pollies have neglected to 'sell' to the electorate - is that the rise of WEALTHfare has also been accompanied by massive middle-high-end tax cuts!

The Labs ought to have tied the 2007 tax cut promises to the tightening (better still, the removal) of a range of effectively-exclusive and reverse-means-tested tax concessions, deductions and rebates - along with a Carbon Tax - but they foolishly missed the opportunity to do so.

One anomaly in public policy that I still don't get, is that the Howard Govt increased the Dependent Spouse Rebate (paid mostly to working men on behalf of to non-working women) at the same time that they introduced Welfare to Slavery work-test requirements for single women with dependent children to claim Parenting Payment/Newstart!?

The LibLabs have been complaining of skills shortages for years but surely, one of the biggest untapped workforce sections is that of kept women who either don't have dependent children or don't qualify for welfare payments because of high household income - who are effectively-rewarded for staying at home by our tax and transfer system!?  WTF!?



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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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It_is_the_Darkness
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #5 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:36am
 
Maquarie Links are very wealthy people, they even have a security guard at the gates of their exclusive Golf Course suburb.
Across the rail line is Maquarie Fields (scene of a riot not so long ago) a place of Housos and drop-kicks.
...latest finding has found that most of the daughters of Maquarie Links have fallen pregnant to the rogues of Maquarie Fields.
"It was our only chance to have children" they state, "Because the boys of our area are too Career focused to care about having kids."

...everything balances out in the end between the Haves and Haves Not. Wink
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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #6 - May 1st, 2011 at 11:59am
 
Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am:
How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?



Damn these $150k millionaire families eh??

Some of you guys really do have NO idea.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Equitist
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #7 - May 1st, 2011 at 12:11pm
 


Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:59am:
Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am:
How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?



Damn these $150k millionaire families eh??

Some of you guys really do have NO idea.




Ironically, so says the git who also claims that it is 'easy' for families on far lower incomes to budget to live within their fundamentally-insufficient means...

Roll Eyes

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #8 - May 1st, 2011 at 12:24pm
 
<<...latest finding has found that most of the daughters of Maquarie Links have fallen pregnant to the rogues of Maquarie Fields.>>
...........................................................................

LOL....did you see that andrei, I bet their parents would never have thought it. You too, might be the granddaddy of a black baby one day. I love karma!
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #9 - May 1st, 2011 at 12:59pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:59am:
Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am:
How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?



Damn these $150k millionaire families eh??

Some of you guys really do have NO idea.


Says someone who begrudges welfare recips their
paltry $13,000 a year.
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hawil
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #10 - May 1st, 2011 at 1:57pm
 
The Murrays can hardly be considered as average, because the majority of the Australian families are not in receipt of this income, and they ar not workers but Business professionals.
They claim that they work hard, but so do others, or have worked hard before they retired, like retiree one in the following case and are then forced almost to the verge of poverty in retirement, like retiree 1.


Here are my calculations how the current retirees are treated
Take retiree: 1)
Worked for 45 years and paid taxes, but did not accumulate enough assets to be completely independent of the age-pension. For every dollar of extra income for him and his wife above $6,500, the couple loses $0.50 of age pension, and if their income exceeds $45,000 per annum, the couple will pay tax of $0.315 in the dollar including medicare levy, leaving them with an income of $0.185 from every dollar extra income. For the defined benefit income a 10% tax-offset applies if paid from an Australian super fund, but not if the income comes from an overseas fund.

Retiree 2)
Has accumulated assets of $1.5million and the assets are in a so-called taxed Self Managed Super Fund. To be very conservative, the assets are in a term deposit earning 7.0% income of $122,500 per annum and even if the retiree is single, he/she will not pay a cent of tax.
Now if the assets are in fully franked shares, like banks and return $100,000 worth of franked dividends, he/she will again pay no tax on the dividend, and the government will send him/her a cheque of $30,000 for the franking credits.

Retiree 3)
Is an ex-politician or highly paid public servant, in receipt of a defined benefit pension of $100,000, on which he/she will have to pay tax, but he/she gets a 10% tax offset, which equals $10,000 after reaching retirement age, but before retiring, the public servant can establish a SMSF and contribute into it extra with tax concessions if the $25,000 total for under fifty and $50,000, if over fifty is not exceeded and in addition he/she can contribute $150,000 from after tax income, and the earnings from the SMSF will only attract 15% tax, and when the person reaches the age of 60 even the income will be completely tax-free for  the SMSF.

What Ken Henry should have recommended is, abolish all tax concessions for super, abolish the means test for the age pension so that even millionaires get the full pension, but then the retirees should pay the same tax as do the workers.

I have made submissions to the Ken Henry Tax review and the Jeremy Cooper Superannuation review.

I would also like to refer you to my website Hawilspoint “The Great Australian Super Fraud”

Yours truly
Hawil
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longweekend58
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #11 - May 1st, 2011 at 2:18pm
 
Kat wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 12:59pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:59am:
Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am:
How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?


Damn these $150k millionaire families eh??

Some of you guys really do have NO idea.


Says someone who begrudges welfare recips their
paltry $13,000 a year.



The difference - and something you clearly have no idea about - is that one works for their money and the other does not.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Kat
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2011 at 3:22pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 2:18pm:
Kat wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 12:59pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:59am:
Equitist wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 11:24am:
How can an income threshold $150,000 be too low, when that is 3-5 times what the majority of families with children are forced to live on in this country!?


Damn these $150k millionaire families eh??

Some of you guys really do have NO idea.


Says someone who begrudges welfare recips their
paltry $13,000 a year.



The difference - and something you clearly have no idea about - is that one works for their money and the other does not.




Er, actually, I have a very good idea.

And WHY THE smack won't people understand that,
JUST because someone
is unemployed, it DOES NOT mean they never
have worked, OR never will
?

As long as they are TRYING to find work, getting up-skilled, doing WfD, or
undertaking voluntary work, then they ARE 'having a go'
and DO deserve a better deal than they are currently getting.

And for politicians to use them as a political football to get
votes or to divert attention away from the REAL rorters
is contemptible in the extreme.
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« Last Edit: May 1st, 2011 at 3:51pm by Kat »  

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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #13 - May 1st, 2011 at 3:51pm
 
Whether they deserve help is the wrong question. The right question is whether they need help or whether they should get help. The right answer is no.
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Re: Does A Family Earning $115,000 Deserve Help.
Reply #14 - May 1st, 2011 at 3:56pm
 
freediver wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 3:51pm:
Whether they deserve help is the wrong question. The right question is whether they need help or whether they should get help. The right answer is no.





That should read 'The right-wing answer...'

They DO deserve it, they DO need it, but they AREN'T getting it.

Because of people with attitudes like that.
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