Australian Politics Forum - Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?

Grey

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Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Apr 25^th, 2011 at 6:25am

As an atheist I don't feel devoid of 'spirituality' or what some call the 'numinous'. My beef is with 'religions', gangs that draw their power and authority from made up creation myths. In the case of the 'big batallions' mythologies that stretch back to the bronze age deserts of North Africa.

Quote:

I hate words like spirituality. I think they are fake words.

Christians and (New Age types) seem to think they have got a copyright on words like spirituality and soul because they believe in God and they are outraged to think that someone like me can discuss these sorts of issues. I have a nice word that I like numinous. That's my word for spiritual.

If you stand outside and look at the sky and you don't have a numinous response to it; filled with awe and dread and wonderment, then you are brain dead. So you can have an analogous feeling to the spiritual, which can be based on a scientific view of the world. Many people I know who don't share the belief systems of the God botherers; all these people are capable of love, sensitivity, intensity of feeling. But they don't use these posh, dodgy copyright terms for them. - Phillip Adams

So what, you might ask, is wrong with people who share a common belief in bronze age myths congregating to pray to their sky pixi? Not a lot, but it doesn't end there. They do so want to get involved and pontificate on every other issue. In wartime, as if things weren't bad enough, all the soldiers on both sides have to get dosed with 'god-is-on-your-side'. The simple solution to the aids epidemic had to be made complex. Young women making the most difficult decisions of their lives have to be confronted with the views of the church at every opportunity. Scientists pushing the envelope, have to contend with primitives trying to pull it, for example

Stem Cells:-

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The Christian View on Embryonic Stem Cell Research:
The Guidance of Holy Scripture
The Rev. John G. Fleischmann, M.Div., STS

...It is not our intention to enter into this debate, but to seek the input and guidance of Holy Scripture. For the Church,the Scriptures are the norma normans, theauthoritative Word of God. Sacred Tradition is closely coupled to this process, as it shows how the Church has historically understood matters of the Faith...

http://resqrev.com/Embryonicb.pdf

What possible relevance to ethical questions on stem cell research can 'holy scriptures' have hmmm?

Modernity has problems complex and thorny enough, the last thing that's needed are shamen and their muddy waters, chicken entrails and general silliness.

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Sappho

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #1 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 7:24am

Western societies already have sophisticated secular moral constructs and processes available which help us to decide upon sophisticated techniques and technologies... we don't need divine morality.

If those who peddle in religion don't like the freedoms afforded by secular morality... don't partake of secular morality... indeed, if it's against your faith... you can't partake... just do what your god says or else... and leave the techno-medical revolutions and the benefits thereof to the enlightened Secular Humanist.

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"Love is a cunning weaver of fantasies and fables."

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50565 At my desk.	Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation? Reply #2 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 8:40am Speaking of the freedoms afforded by our society, Grey, can you clarify what aspects of religion you would have banned?
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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation? Reply #3 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 10:02am To Hell with ALL religion, AFAIC. Religion, like politics, is something the world would be FAR better-off without.
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salad in

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #4 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 10:08am

Grey wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 6:25am:

As an atheist...

Why not come to our next alleged religious service? I am a New Age Muslim and like you I was lost. Then, late one night I had time to ask myself: Where the smack did I come from and where the smack am I going. I even dabbled in allotheism so low was my mood. During one of those 'what the smack' episodes I discovered Malsi. I have never looked back. Sure we have some vile habits and our owner's manual the holy Narok is full of hate and bile but it's also a lot of fun.

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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

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Grey

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #5 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 10:52am

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 8:40am:

Speaking of the freedoms afforded by our society, Grey, can you clarify what aspects of religion you would have banned?

Any aspects that are against the law + genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision. If people want to get circumcised they can make their own decision on that when they're old enough to make their own informed opinion.

I'm not out to make a martyr of you yet free

You know what I think of the burqa. I couldn't write legislation that I'd be comfortable with, but if one of our illustrious leaders had a crack at banning it I wouldn't lose any sleep.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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freediver

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #6 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 11:40am

Quote:

Any aspects that are against the law

So you want to make it illegal to break the law? Brilliant!

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+ genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision

So only atheists may circumcise infants?

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I couldn't write legislation that I'd be comfortable with

Yet I am sure that just like the 'moderate' muslims you would be happily swept along with the crowd the next time some nutter comes up with a ban that would make you uncomfortable, if only you stopped to think about it. Like the burqa ban for example.

Quote:

but if one of our illustrious leaders had a crack at banning it I wouldn't lose any sleep.

Regardless of how uncomfortable it made you feel? Are you merely admitting that you hold unconscionable views, but want someone else to do the dirty work for you? Or is it just that you cannot face up to your own views?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #7 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 11:44am

ATHEISTS = people who are victims to Religion
(caught in that void between Religion and something else that can give them meaning in life like a Criminal to a Cop who was too afraid that he/she could be an Artist instead.)

...and can't admit that they Read/Write so 'religiously' upon Forums Grin

I think Grey that you need to find an identity in being something different, rather than being Anti-something else.

Why do you persist in bullying the feminine side of Reading/Written expression.

Australia will usher in a New Golden Age for Religion (not based upon Judaism, Christianity or Mohommedism) via Australian Achievers, not North American Breeders - of whom have the Book of Mormon. They know its 'crap' but its proudly 'American Made'. Wink

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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.

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Grey

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #8 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 11:55am

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 11:40am:

Quote:

Any aspects that are against the law

So you want to make it illegal to break the law? Brilliant!

Quote:

+ genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision

So only atheists may circumcise infants?

Quote:

I couldn't write legislation that I'd be comfortable with

Yet I am sure that just like the 'moderate' muslims you would be happily swept along with the crowd the next time some nutter comes up with a ban that would make you uncomfortable, if only you stopped to think about it. Like the burqa ban for example.

Quote:

but if one of our illustrious leaders had a crack at banning it I wouldn't lose any sleep.

Regardless of how uncomfortable it made you feel? Are you merely admitting that you hold unconscionable views, but want someone else to do the dirty work for you? Or is it just that you cannot face up to your own views?

I'm getting a little tired of slippery gobbledygook. How about you tell us what's good about religion free? I'm quite satisfied that my meanings are clear.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #9 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:01pm

<<Any aspects that are against the law + genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision. If people want to get circumcised they can make their own decision on that when they're old enough to make their own informed opinion. >>
...........................................................................

Who made us, the West the model for the rest of the world to live by? Why do we always have to be right, and why does the rest of the world have to follow our ways?

Surely it's up to the people involved (it's been happening for more than one generation) to stop this practice if they so desire.

The females of those countries can speak up for the females of those countries. Self empowerment.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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It_is_the_Darkness Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4000 in a ReTardis Gender:	Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation? Reply #10 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:07pm Because the West (the USA) has too much FREEDOM. Unlike us Australians with our discipline of CONVICTION of going without.
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mavisdavis

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #11 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:18pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:01pm:

<<Any aspects that are against the law + genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision. If people want to get circumcised they can make their own decision on that when they're old enough to make their own informed opinion. >>
...........................................................................

Who made us, the West the model for the rest of the world to live by? Why do we always have to be right, and why does the rest of the world have to follow our ways?

Surely it's up to the people involved (it's been happening for more than one generation) to stop this practice if they so desire.

The females of those countries can speak up for the females of those countries. Self empowerment.

"Who made us, the West the model for the rest of the world to live by?"

Are you serious? Have you not seen the misery of other living standard systems, the world over? Furthermore, it isn`t only the females of those countries that live a brutal existence, the males are subjected to far more brutality, but this fact is beyond your scope of concern pansi.

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Karnal

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #12 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:22pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:07pm:

Because the West (the USA) has too much FREEDOM.
Unlike us Australians with our discipline of CONVICTION of going without.

You think? Australians never go without. They think it's the end of the world if Coles is closed. We are the most bloated, excessive and indulgent country in all of history.

Salad in, I think your religions sounds wonderful - without the hate and bile and all those things, of course. How does one become a Malsi?

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
Reply #13 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:59pm

mavisdavis wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 12:01pm:

<<Any aspects that are against the law + genital mutilation of infants, by which I mean circumcision. If people want to get circumcised they can make their own decision on that when they're old enough to make their own informed opinion. >>
...........................................................................

Who made us, the West the model for the rest of the world to live by? Why do we always have to be right, and why does the rest of the world have to follow our ways?

Surely it's up to the people involved (it's been happening for more than one generation) to stop this practice if they so desire.

The females of those countries can speak up for the females of those countries. Self empowerment.

"Who made us, the West the model for the rest of the world to live by?"

Are you serious? Have you not seen the misery of other living standard systems, the world over? Furthermore, it isn`t only the females of those countries that live a brutal existence, the males are subjected to far more brutality, but this fact is beyond your scope of concern pansi.

I wonder why the US/UN haven't gone in to protect those people. They must be countries that have nothing that teases the purse.

Incidentally in the 1980's Cuba was voted by the people of Cuba as the happiest place to live. What was the propaganda that America was spreading about Cuba during those years?

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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It_is_the_Darkness Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4000 in a ReTardis Gender:	Re: Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation? Reply #14 - Apr 25^th, 2011 at 1:09pm ...only the Australians loyal to the Western way are bloated with excessive displays of too much FREEDOM. Most Australians aren't and don't live their lives through Television.
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