Australian Politics Forum - Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance

buzzanddidj

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #15 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:23pm

Quote:

The changes will include an attempt to make it more difficult for people with some forms of mental illness to qualify for the disability support pension.

Provided it's not ABUSED, there is SOME merit in that point
I'v known a few people that have been put on DSP's with clinical depression - as well as some with alcohol and substance abuse problems

These conditions are NOT always permanent states

But putting these cases on a DSP is akin to saying

"

You're finished - you'll never get better

"

- and on THAT advice, they probably WON"T
A BETTER idea would be to place them on a sickness benefit - at the same rate as the pension - and give them a one and two year review

If the condition is unchanged - or WORSE - switch then to a pension, at that point

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Sappho

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #16 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:26pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:13pm:

Sappho wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:07pm:

The very idea of shifting those on Disability to Newstart (and remember we're referring to people who are VERY ILL because only those who are VERY ILL can even pass all the hoops to get Disability in the 1st place) is nothing short of vile.

ANY govt (be it Labor OR Liberal) that believes they can attempt this .. deserves nothing but our condemnation.

No...you have got it wrong. You are working from ignorance and I am working from knowledge... knowledge of a person with disabilities and knowledge of the system itself.

Your pity is unwelcome as it only serves to isolate the disabled even further.

No .. I have tried to EMPLOY people with these issues and constraints.

Also I have personal experience in many other capacities which relate to these scenarios which I don't feel comfortable at all in sharing with the likes of you.

My employer supports and encourages disabled people in the work place. They receive a work place assessment by a specialist and any modifications that need to be made are made... including the enlargement of doors so that wheel chairs can go through. It is a pity that you as an employer were not as supportive of the disabled as my employer is.

Oh yeah... my professional experience trumps your personal experience every single time.

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« Last Edit: Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:45pm by Sappho »

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Sappho

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #17 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:34pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

Quote:

The changes will include an attempt to make it more difficult for people with some forms of mental illness to qualify for the disability support pension.

Provided it's not ABUSED, there is SOME merit in that point
I'v known a few people that have been put on DSP's with clinical depression - as well as some with alcohol and substance abuse problems

These conditions are NOT always permanent states

But putting these cases on a DSP is akin to saying

"

You're finished - you'll never get better

"

- and on THAT advice, they probably WON"T
A BETTER idea would be to place them on a sickness benefit - at the same rate as the pension - and give them a one and two year review

If the condition is unchanged - or WORSE - switch then to a pension, at that point

It needs to be said that those with substance abuse problems who are on disability for those problems... really are incapacitated. Tragically, there are many on Newstart who suffer such addictions who refuse to claim DSP because they do not see that they are a problem... they have no insight into their addictions and subsequent mental health issues. It is a pity that Centrelink cannot transfer such people to the pension against their will.

Otherwise... many people with mental health issues which are fully treated are not actually disabled. Even those with episodic mental health issues can engage casual employment inbetween their episodes and revert to welfare... sickness allowance to be exact for the duration of the episode.

It is those with serious boarderline personality disorders and serious bi polar etc... that should remain on DSP irrespective of their self perceptions... which lack insight in most cases.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #18 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:34pm

Moving on ..

As I stated earlier .. incorrectly labelled vulnerable people being pushed into work is offensive irrespective of which govt initiates the idea.

1) It ultimately places THEM AND OTHERS at risk.

2) And it will COST MORE MONEY to fix up in the long run.

Oh and Howard tried this experiment many years ago .. it failed miserably.. because of 1) and 2) above.

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Sappho

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #19 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:41pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

Moving on ..

As I stated earlier .. incorrectly labelled vulnerable people being pushed into work is offensive irrespective of which govt initiates the idea.

1) It ultimately places THEM AND OTHERS at risk.

2) And it will COST MORE MONEY to fix up in the long run.

Oh and Howard tried this experiment many years ago .. it failed miserably.. because of 1) and 2) above.

If they are incorrectly labelled then the medical profession needs to be reviewed and not centrelink who relies on their advise to determine a persons capacity.

Centrelink has many checks and measures in place to pick up on those customers who cannot participate at 15hrs per week. The DSP specialist employment and training provider re-refers such people back to a Job Capacity Assessor with notes of concern to be explored and discussed with the customer.

Howard tried this experiment and succeeded... but not cost effective for Centrelink to deliver the services needed... so it was put up for tender and given over to the Disability Network.

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Grey

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #20 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 2:44pm

It's heartwarming isn't it? In a place with so much oportunity and wealth as Australia people are clamouring to be classified as incapable and sentenced to a barely livable income.

Let's look at this from another angle. If you had a job vacancy to fill and got 10 applications, how many of those 10 would cost you more than they'd make for you? As an employer of labour in the past I'd say the answer is closer to 5 than 1.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #21 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:27pm

Kat wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 11:13am:

Raise the No-Start rate to parity with pensions NOW!

You are beneath contempt, Australia, for your treatment of your poor.

Why should a dole bludger get the same money as a pensioner?

I think pensioners deserve far more than the dole bludgers!

If you dole bludgers are sick of being poor you could always get a job the dole was never meant to be a lifestyle choice.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #22 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:39pm

J.W.Howard tightened up the eligibility for the DSP the biggest change was not giving it to people who are capable of working 15 or more hours per week.

Before that people could qualify for the DSP even if they were capable of working 30 hours per week.

We need to tighten it up i knew someone who was on the DSP for alcoholism and it did not help them by giving them sit down money.

Its despicable for any government to pick on people who are proved to be medically incapable of working for more than 15 hours per week.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92360 Gender:	Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance Reply #23 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:40pm Why should the sick get any money for being sick? You're just rewarding poor genes and stalling the inevitable. If they die out, however, the race gets stronger.
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Sappho

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #24 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:50pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

Kat wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 11:13am:

Raise the No-Start rate to parity with pensions NOW!

You are beneath contempt, Australia, for your treatment of your poor.

Why should a dole bludger get the same money as a pensioner?

I think pensioners deserve far more than the dole bludgers!

If you dole bludgers are sick of being poor you could always get a job the dole was never meant to be a lifestyle choice.

I think pensioners should be getting 1K a fortnight income and asset tested and all allowances for adults should be at 650 a fortnight income and asset tested.

Rent assistance should also be increased and paid directly to the landlord via centrepay.

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Kat

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Re: Shifting Those On Disability To Newstart Allowance
Reply #25 - Apr 6^th, 2011 at 7:43pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

Kat wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 11:13am:

Raise the No-Start rate to parity with pensions NOW!

You are beneath contempt, Australia, for your treatment of your poor.

Why should a dole bludger get the same money as a pensioner?

I think pensioners deserve far more than the dole bludgers!

If you dole bludgers are sick of being poor you could always get a job the dole was never meant to be a lifestyle choice.

Because they are NOT bludgers, and their bills are the same OR MORE than a pensioner.

I disagree. Strongly.

I am not a bludger, or unemployed, why assume that I am?

You appear to be yet another 'dole-bludger hater' with NFI at all.

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