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strategic promotion of political Islam (Read 18434 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #15 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:59pm
 
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
The questions may have been leading but I don't think that's a reason not to answer.  By continually sidestepping this question of Islam's political strategy you make Muslims look distinctly dodgy. Would they look even dodgier if you answered them?


I'm not particularly in the habit of answering rabid xenophobic delusions, sorry.

Are you so daft as to not even realise that sometimes people do not answer such crap due to the fact that answering it dignifies it far beyond what it deserves?

I thought as much..

Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
Is the goal of Islam to take over secular societies? Should we at least try to resist by making war on Muslims, as they did when Jews took over their land including Jerusalem, a fierce resistance that is not yet over.


Perhaps you should have a read of La France Juive, and then come to your own conclusions.

Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
That doesn't look tolerant to you?


You left out North Korea, Israel, Egypt, Tunisia and all the other countries where secularism reared its ugly head and oppressed people severely.

Also France, in the name of secularism, has dictated that women must expose parts of their own personal bodies, I find this extremely intolerant, and sick.

Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
Surely it's a lot more tolerant than societies where the religious go on rampages killing a dozen of their own fellows, all because thousands of miles away in another country across the seas some idiot has burnt a Quo'ran?


The demonstrators were brutally gunned down by the U.N terrorists & Puppet Collaborationist scum, not by their own fellows.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #16 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:16pm
 
I agree with Abu about France. They are going after the wrong people.
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #17 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 10:53pm
 
And making more enemies where they'd otherwise not have them.

Ditto for "war on terror" and also for the nutcases here.

Much of this "clash" between Muslims and non-Muslims is self-fulfilling prophecy, nutjobs who want it to happen talk it up, and use fear to incite the masses into bringing it about.

And ignorant fools swallow it hook, line and sinker.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #18 - Apr 11th, 2011 at 7:48am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:59pm:
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am:
Surely it's a lot more tolerant than societies where the religious go on rampages killing a dozen of their own fellows, all because thousands of miles away in another country across the seas some idiot has burnt a Quo'ran?


The demonstrators were brutally gunned down by the U.N terrorists & Puppet Collaborationist scum, not by their own fellows.




Allah states that whenever the people riot and promote sedition within and against the authority of the moslem state, those who riot should simply be 'seized and slain (without mercy)'.

"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City....whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
Koran 33.60,61


So isn't there a danger of 'The demonstrators' being mistaken for those 'in whose hearts is a disease' ???


+++


Abu, when moslems kill moslems [e.g. Libya, Iraq, Yemen, etc, etc.], who gets to decide who are the 'rightly guided' moslems and who are NOT the 'rightly guided' moslems ???

Is it you Abu, or is it some other authority ???

On what basis ???



+++


ALLAH COMMANDED; DON'T KILL FELLOW 'PERSONS'....


"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people...."
Koran 5.32

N.B. Allah is speaking to whom???
So, there are no direct restrictions in this verse [5.32], on moslems slaying mankind then???


DON'T KILL FELLOW 'PERSONS', THE EXCEPTION....


You have read Koran 5.32 [above].
What does the the very next Koran verse declare???

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world..."
Koran 5.33

So devout moslems ARE commanded to kill 'those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land'.

Obviously 'those' must be the 'unbelievers'.
Those who rise up against moslem authority.
Sarc off/



BUT DON'T KILL FELLOW MOSLEMS....


Allah's law declares that moslems, must never knowingly kill another person.

CORRECTION;
Allah's law declares that moslems must never knowingly kill another moslem.

"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.092, 93


SO ON KILLING, ISLAMIC LAW STATES.....???


To kill fellow moslems = wrong.

To kill Kuffar who resist ISLAM / Allah = is justified, and encouraged.




+++

So, moslems must never, ever, knowingly kill a fellow [good] moslem.

But killing infidels, and those who rise up against moslem authority ???

No worries!




"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. "
Koran 9.111

v. 9.111, in its guarantee of paradise to those who "fight in His cause, and slay and are slain" for Allah, is clearly encouraging the martyrdom of moslems, in 'the Cause of Allah'.
Their reward, is paradise.
Suicide bombing, anyone?

Q.
So who can moslems fight???

A.
Allah's enemies.



Q.
But who are, Allah's enemies????

A.
Allah has declared who his enemies are, in the Koran...

"...Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

And THAT, is real ISLAM.
The reason for being, for a good moslem, is to fight infidels, in Allah's cause, aka Jihad.


+++

But as i asked above, when moslems kill fellow moslems,
OR, WHEN MOSLEMS KILL THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE FELLOW MOSLEMS [e.g. moslem violence in Libya, Iraq, Yemen, etc, etc.],
who gets to decide who are the 'rightly guided' moslems, and who are NOT the 'rightly guided' moslems [who may lawfully be killed] ???

Is it you Abu, or is it some other authority ???

On what basis ???

What if other moslems disagree with you Abu ???

Why is your version of ISLAM correct ???

And why is their version of ISLAM incorrect ???



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #19 - Apr 11th, 2011 at 6:51pm
 
Quote:
Abu, when moslems kill moslems [e.g. Libya, Iraq, Yemen, etc, etc.], who gets to decide who are the 'rightly guided' moslems and who are NOT the 'rightly guided' moslems ???

Is it you Abu, or is it some other authority ???


This is assuming that the governments that rule over the Muslim world are Muslims.

We all know (well anyone with the least bit of analytical ability anyway) that they are nothing but Western puppets, not Muslims. They hate the Muslims & Islam, and the Muslims hate them.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #20 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 9:15am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 11th, 2011 at 6:51pm:
Quote:
Abu, when moslems kill moslems [e.g. Libya, Iraq, Yemen, etc, etc.], who gets to decide who are the 'rightly guided' moslems and who are NOT the 'rightly guided' moslems ???

Is it you Abu, or is it some other authority ???


This is assuming that the governments that rule over the Muslim world are Muslims.

We all know (well anyone with the least bit of analytical ability anyway) that they are nothing but Western puppets, not Muslims. They hate the Muslims & Islam, and the Muslims hate them.





Abu from this list of nations, can you please indicate, just the moslem nations...

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Bosnia, Canada, Chechnya, Dagestan, Denmark, East Timor, Egypt, England, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Gaza, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ingushetia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kabardino-Balkaria, Kenya, Kosovo, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Morocco, Netherlands, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Scotland, Somalia, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Usa, Uzbekistan, West Bank, Yemen.

...or are all of the 'nominally' moslem nations in that list, under the thumb of, or are 'client' states of, or are colonies of, the UN, or those 'Western puppets' ???



+++

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

Abu,

I know that we Christians, all, have many faults.

But every time i point to the misdeeds of who refer to themselves as moslems, you claim those persons are not moslems.

Abu,
Where are all the very best examples of moslems ???

Why don't you point to some of those communities of good moslems, so that we wicked 'unbelievers', may admire these true moslem paragons of virtue, who walk this earth ???

Where are all of these people called moslems, who do what is right, and who forbid what is wrong ???


+++

IMAGE
...
...
Abu,
SURELY THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT 'REPRESENTATIVE' OF GOOD MOSLEMS ???
ARE THOSE IMAGES, AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE STRATEGIC PROMOTION OF POLITICAL ISLAM SHOULD BE CONDUCTED ???




I mean, if moslems can't point to any example of virtue [i.e. if moslems cannot point to a true moslem community], then on what basis in logic, must we wicked 'unbelievers', accept that the ISLAMIC worldview [a worldview which persons such as yourself promote] is the correct one, and which all of mankind must embrace ???

Abu,

If there is no 'true' moslem community, then shouldn't you, logically, at least be criticising those miscreants [i.e. people who refer to themselves as moslems, who claim to be moslems] who misbehave [who you claim do not represent ISLAM] ???

Aren't those persons [i.e. people who refer to themselves as moslems, who claim to be moslems] brining ISLAM into disrepute, through their violent actions ???

Shouldn't these moslem 'impersonators' be rebuked by real moslems, such as yourself ???





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #21 - Apr 12th, 2011 at 8:17pm
 
Quote:
...or are all of the 'nominally' moslem nations in that list, under the thumb of, or are 'client' states of, or are colonies of, the UN, or those 'Western puppets' ???


Right.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #22 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 11:42am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:59pm:
I'm not particularly in the habit of answering rabid xenophobic delusions, sorry.

Are you so daft as to not even realise that sometimes people do not answer such crap due to the fact that answering it dignifies it far beyond what it deserves? I thought as much..


If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would jump at the chance to answer hard questions. I put questions to you not from my position as an uber racist, because i'm not, but because they are the questions many people in the community feel need answering. How do you think politicians would go if they fronted up to the 7.30 Report and bleated about how they wouldn't dignify aggressive questions with an answer?






Quote:
You left out North Korea, Israel, Egypt, Tunisia and all the other countries where secularism reared its ugly head and oppressed people severely.


If a regime oppresses people, it is by definition not secular.

Quote:
The demonstrators were brutally gunned down by the U.N terrorists & Puppet Collaborationist scum, not by their own fellows.


That doesn't explain why they were rioting in the first place. Tolerant people don't riot in such circumstances, it's not logical.
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #23 - Apr 13th, 2011 at 10:43pm
 
Quote:
If you were half as smart as you seem to think you are you would jump at the chance to answer hard questions


Within limits.

Politicians for instance would not dignify a conference about their party being infiltrated by reptilian spies from the gamma quadrant.

You just need to realise some of your questions and claims are just outside the bounds of sensible discussion, and just become nothing but libel and slander. They do not deserve a response, and in most cases, one was already given long ago, Muslims grew tired of refuting the same old garbage long ago.

Change the record, in other words.

Quote:
If a regime oppresses people, it is by definition not secular.


I don't know where/if you went to school, but that's not the definition of secular. The Soviet Union for instance was completely secular yet it oppressed people. The U.S is secular yet it oppresses people.

You seem confused about what secular means. It does not mean "non oppressive". It means a state in which religion plays no (or very minimal) part in defining the laws of the country.

Now perhaps in your own little personal delusion of a world, religion = oppression, whilst lack of it = non-oppression, but it simply not the case.

Quote:
That doesn't explain why they were rioting in the first place. Tolerant people don't riot in such circumstances, it's not logical.


Yeh right... like the British who riot because the cost of living rises a little.

Just because nothing is sacred in your empty little world, doesn't mean it is so for others.

It takes a lot for Muslims to riot, hence the 30 years of suffering under Mubarak.

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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #24 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 7:08am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 13th, 2011 at 10:43pm:

Quote:
If a regime oppresses people, it is by definition not secular.


I don't know where/if you went to school, but that's not the definition of secular. The Soviet Union for instance was completely secular yet it oppressed people. The U.S is secular yet it oppresses people.

You seem confused about what secular means. It does not mean "non oppressive". It means a state in which religion plays no (or very minimal) part in defining the laws of the country.

Now perhaps in your own little personal delusion of a world, religion = oppression, whilst lack of it = non-oppression, but it simply not the case.





To Grey,

If you want to pursue this argument with Abu, over how the word 'secular' is defined [and whether fascist philosophies can be defined as secular], you may want to examine carefully the description of Italian fascism,
given here...
"islam and jews"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299665041/77#77



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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #25 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 7:17am
 
Yadda,

There is no argument over how the word secular is defined. Its meaning is quite clear. Dictionaries are not that hard to come by.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #26 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:44am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 7:17am:
Yadda,

There is no argument over how the word secular is defined. Its meaning is quite clear. Dictionaries are not that hard to come by.



A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[1] A secular state also claims to treat all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and claims to avoid preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion/nonreligion over other religions/nonreligion. Secular states do not have a state religion or equivalent,
although the absence of a state religion does not guarantee that a state is secular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state

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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #27 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:54am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 7:17am:
Yadda,

There is no argument over how the word secular is defined. Its meaning is quite clear. Dictionaries are not that hard to come by.






AND YET, moslems, and the Western world, define many English words, very, very differently.


e.g.
We all desire peace.

Or so it seems.

But moslems, all good moslems, define the word 'peace' as one thing, submission to Allah's will.

And, all good moslems will openly condemn terrorism.

But good moslems deceitfully NEVER, EVER, reveal to non-moslems how good moslems define 'terrorism'.
i.e.
To all good moslems...
Terrorists, are those people who resist Allah's will, and resist the [violent] spread of ISLAM.



e.g.

Bali bombers, 'terrorists' ???

What 'terrorists' ??

They are 'defenders of ISLAM' !!
/sarc off

Bashir calls bombers 'counter-terrorists'
June 26, 2007
HARDLINE Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today that extremists blamed for Indonesian bombings were role models for other Muslims and feted them as "counter-terrorists."
"There are no terrorists in Indonesia. What there are, are counter-terrorists," Bashir said.
....Bashir spoke at a press conference to announce plans, together with 13 lawyers from the "Team for the Defence of Muslims," to file a suit demanding that Indonesia's counter-terrorism police unit be disbanded.
Lawyer Munarman alleged that the counter-terrorism squad was financed opaquely by the US, sought to make war against Islam and used torture to secure admissions from suspects.
He also said that the squad was discriminatory as it only acted against Muslims, adding the team planned to file the suit on tomorrow at the South Jakarta district court.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017127.php


ISLAM = deceit.




Google;
"Islamophobia Worst Form of Terrorism"


Google;
refrain from linking Islam and terrorism


Google;
"don't confuse terrorism with Islam"



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Abu
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #28 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 10:49am
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:54am:
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 7:17am:
Yadda,

There is no argument over how the word secular is defined. Its meaning is quite clear. Dictionaries are not that hard to come by.






AND YET, moslems, and the Western world, define many English words, very, very differently.


e.g.
We all desire peace.

Or so it seems.

But moslems, all good moslems, define the word 'peace' as one thing, submission to Allah's will.

And, all good moslems will openly condemn terrorism.

But good moslems deceitfully NEVER, EVER, reveal to non-moslems how good moslems define 'terrorism'.
i.e.
To all good moslems...
Terrorists, are those people who resist Allah's will, and resist the [violent] spread of ISLAM.


Very true. You'll find a number of "good" Muslims resisting Al Qaeda in Iraq. You'll also find a few in Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya. Many Muslims DO openly condemn terrorism but it's not just about words, it's about actions.

Many "good" Muslims are putting their lives on the line - in defence of their families, communities and nations - as we speak.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #29 - Apr 14th, 2011 at 8:32pm
 
Western militaries are the biggest terrorists.

USA heading the lot - provide ONE example of the USA defending itself against an attack by another state on itS home soil?

Even the Japanese in WW2 attacked the US fleet in Perl Harbour and Hawaii was not part of the USA at that time - the US annexed that island as an additional state after the war.

So when has the US mainland been attacked by a foreign power?

And yet the USA has been involved on over 45 overt and covert wars since the end of WW2 resulting in over 14.3 million civilian deaths in other people's backyards.

Why?

Like Noam Chomsky has said for many years "IF YOU WISH TO STOP TERRORISM THEN STOP PARTICIPATING IN IT"

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