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strategic promotion of political Islam (Read 18991 times)
freediver
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strategic promotion of political Islam
Apr 3rd, 2011 at 12:54pm
 
Abu can you explain what you mean by strategic here?

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/showpost.php?p=484299&postcount=33

Quote:
Although this might sound like a better idea, in fact that's not really what we should _instead_ do. Yes we must deliver the message about the oneness of Allah (swt), but also we do need to promote and make propaganda for Shari'ah, just not in a manner devoid of hikmah. We need to promote Islam as a viable way of life, and a solution to the problems the world faces. Merely restricting our daw'ah to speaking about the oneness of Allah (swt) does not present the full picture of Islam, and actually risks us falling into limiting Islam to becoming just a 'spiritual' system like Judaism & Christianity did.

In short we should not retract from promoting the political aspects of Islam, we should excel more in it, but we just need to do it in a very targeted and strategic manner.
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 3:19pm
 
Personally I thought it's a common enough word that most should know...

Quote:
Strategy: a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.

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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 6:49pm
 
So what is the plan? Why the need to emphasise strategy?
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abu_rashid
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 7:55pm
 
Because being strategically wise is better than being strategically stupid, is it not?

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "The upper hand is better than the lower hand. The upper hand is the one which expends, and the lower one is the one which asks."
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 7:57pm
 
Don't worry, I'm fully aware of your insinuations that being strategic must refer to planning in war... Your intentions are tainted fd, in every post you make here.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 8:22pm
 
I'm just asking you to be open and honest. I realise I could fill in the blanks for you, but my experience here so far has been that the reality is far more interesting.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #6 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 7:51am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 7:55pm:
Because being strategically wise is better than being strategically stupid, is it not?

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "The upper hand is better than the lower hand. The upper hand is the one which expends, and the lower one is the one which asks."





More comment on 'upper hands' from the Koran.....

" "Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger! Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the Cause of Allah, He will not pardon. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace. You have the upper hand. "
Koran 47.33-35


So, the 'rightly guided' moslem 'strategy' is, that when moslems become strong, politically, that when moslems have the 'upper hand', politically, that moslems should obey Allah, and destroy those who reject the authority of ISLAM over their lives ???

i.e.
Destroy those who reject the authority of ISLAM over their lives, whenever they are within the power of moslems.

THAT, is the meaning that i read.



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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #7 - Apr 4th, 2011 at 9:19am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 8:22pm:
I'm just asking you to be open and honest. I realise I could fill in the blanks for you, but my experience here so far has been that the reality is far more interesting.


lol, Freediver asking others to be 'honest and open'....the wonders never cease to amaze.

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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #8 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 10:21pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 7:55pm:
Because being strategically wise is better than being strategically stupid, is it not?

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "The upper hand is better than the lower hand. The upper hand is the one which expends, and the lower one is the one which asks."


Abu Rashid, If Islam comes to the secular world with a strategy to undermine it, that is going to lead to conflict is it not? I mean isn't it obvious to you that Christians and indeed secularists and Atheists are going to develop strategies too and their resistance is going to be greater having held those lands for many years.

Islam would not peacefully become the minority in Mecca without bloodshed would it? How can you come to secular countries with agendas to conquer and describe yourselves as the religion of peace?

I'm curious as to why you converted to Islam from being a secularist. Did you find being tolerant a difficult position to maintain?

Abu Rashid, I put it to you that there's a bit of a disconnect between the interpretation of the Qur'an that you and other moderate voices put and the interpretation used by a goodly proportion if not the majority of the Muslim world. For example it was be hard to find a Christian in an Islamic country who thought they were being treated fairly and impartially. The general consensus of opinion seems to be their very lives are under siege.

I ask these questions without rancour, but out of a spirit of revelation. I myself am an Atheist, but not without any spirituality. For most Atheists what we reject is a stylized God and Priests not a rejection of rapture and ecstasy.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 6:41am
 
Quote:
with a strategy to undermine it


Quote:
with agendas to conquer


When you can show me where the word undermine or conquer or anything like them was used alongside strategy, then I'll answer these.

Quote:
Christians and indeed secularists and Atheists are going to develop strategies too and their resistance is going to be greater having held those lands for many years. Islam would not peacefully become the minority in Mecca without bloodshed would it?


Well its certainly become a minority in al-Quds (ie. Jerusalem), a land which we've lived in for close to 2 thousand years, ie. about 10 times longer than Christians have lived in Australia.

So if Christians can take our land and turn it into a majority of another religion, then I'm sure we can reciprocate.

Quote:
I'm curious as to why you converted to Islam from being a secularist. Did you find being tolerant a difficult position to maintain?


There is nothing inherently tolerant about secularism. This question is very poorly worded.

Quote:
For example it was be hard to find a Christian in an Islamic country who thought they were being treated fairly and impartially. The general consensus of opinion seems to be their very lives are under siege.


Firstly there is no Islamic country. All of the nations in the Muslim world are colonialist concoctions, not Islamic countries. Secondly, EVERYONE is treated badly in them, hence the reason Muslims and Christians and others have all been rising up together to overthrow the Western imposed dictators who've been oppressing EVERYONE every since the West installed them.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 8:40am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 6:41am:
Quote:
For example it was be hard to find a Christian in an Islamic country who thought they were being treated fairly and impartially. The general consensus of opinion seems to be their very lives are under siege.


Firstly there is no Islamic country. All of the nations in the Muslim world are colonialist concoctions, not Islamic countries. Secondly, EVERYONE is treated badly in them, hence the reason Muslims and Christians and others have all been rising up together to overthrow the Western imposed dictators who've been oppressing EVERYONE every since the West installed them.





Yadda paraphrases Abu;

ISLAM cannot, and good moslems cannot, be held accountable for what moslem 'impersonators' do in the world today, because ISLAM has no authority in this secular world.
Therefore every evil that happens in this world can only be blamed upon non-moslems [because ISLAM has no authority in this world].
Even when moslem 'impersonators' [who claim to be acting on behalf of ISLAM] do wicked things, those evil actions can never, ever, be blamed upon good moslems - because good moslems have no authority in this world.





ALTERNATIVELY;
Of course, if the evil forces in control of this world today, were to surrender their power to ISLAM, and allow good moslems to rule the world, everyone would then see and understand the perfection of ISLAM.
All mankind would then live in peace and harmony, under the benevolent guidance of good moslems.
Because ISLAM is Allah's perfect religion.
/sarc off




+++


None of these incidents of violence [attributed to moslems]....
THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/
...has anything, AT ALL, to do with ISLAM, or, good moslems.



ISLAM is Allah's perfect religion, and ISLAM is only virtuous.

Honest!
/sarc off


+++

Beslan, in the footsteps of Mohammed - the rape of female captives.

Google;
beslan images young girls raped islam captives



The rape of female captives, by Jihadists, is justified by the example of Mohammed, as is recorded in the Hadith...

"Rape your 'war booty', its OK, say ISLAMIC texts"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251760605/0#0



The Hadith is the 'Sunna', it is the record of Mohammed's life.

The Hadith is meant to be an example to moslems of how they may [should] act in the world.

Moslem boys are taught from childhood, that they should try to imitate the life of the perfect man [in Allah's eyes], Mohammed.



Dictionary;
Sunna = = the traditional portion of Muslim law based on Muhammad’s words or acts, accepted (together with the Koran) as authoritative by Muslims.


+++

ADDENDUM;

Above, i raise the terrorist incident at Beslan as an example.




And i ask this question;

Were the perpetrators [who claimed to be moslems] of that terrorist incident at Beslan influenced in their actions, by ISLAM, OR, not ???

I would argue that the Hadith, which is an authoritative ISLAMIC text, DID influence those persons [who regarded themselves, as devout moslems], justifying the rape of the female children at Beslan.


And a subsequent question;

If the perpetrators [who claimed to be moslems] of that terrorist incident at Beslan are NOT regarded as good moslems [by the worldwide moslem community], WHERE WAS THE WORLDWIDE CONDEMNATION , OF THE INCIDENT AT BESLAM, BY ALL MOSLEM COMMUNITIES ???



n.b.
The 'prophet' of ISLAM said that, a persons silence is [their] consent, [their] agreement [with what is happening].

Google;
mohammed silence is consent





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« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:34am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #11 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 9:48am
 
Yadda wrote on Apr 6th, 2011 at 8:40am:

And a subsequent question;


If the perpetrators [who claimed to be moslems] of that terrorist incident at Beslan are NOT regarded as good moslems [by the worldwide moslem community], WHERE WAS THE WORLDWIDE CONDEMNATION , OF THE INCIDENT AT BESLAM, BY ALL MOSLEM COMMUNITIES ???






COMMENT;

If you name a child's toy, a teddy bear, Mohammed,
....then moslems around the world concur, that the offender must be beheaded for 'insulting' Mohammed/ISLAM.

But rape and murder, innocent, non-moslem children in an act of ISLAMIC 'revenge', or Jihad, and moslems will not 'disown' those criminals [will not criticise them].

Does ISLAMIC 'morality' make any sense to you ???
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #12 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 11:00am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 7:55pm:
Because being strategically wise is better than being strategically stupid, is it not?

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "The upper hand is better than the lower hand. The upper hand is the one which expends, and the lower one is the one which asks."


Quote:
Grey - Abu Rashid, If Islam comes to the secular world with a strategy to undermine it, that is going to lead to conflict is it not? I mean isn't it obvious to you that Christians and indeed secularists and Atheists are going to develop strategies too and their resistance is going to be greater having held those lands for many years. Islam would not peacefully become the minority in Mecca without bloodshed would it? How can you come to secular countries with agendas to conquer and describe yourselves as the religion of peace?


Quote:
ABuRashid - When you can show me where the word undermine or conquer or anything like them was used alongside strategy, then I'll answer these.


The questions may have been leading but I don't think that's a reason not to answer.  By continually sidestepping this question of Islam's political strategy you make Muslims look distinctly dodgy. Would they look even dodgier if you answered them?

I mean to say we know that Left Right factions of our government have strategies, but their goals are quite open. Is the goal of Islam to take over secular societies? Should we at least try to resist by making war on Muslims, as they did when Jews took over their land including Jerusalem, a fierce resistance that is not yet over.

A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[1] A secular state also claims to treat all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and claims to avoid preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion/nonreligion over other religions/nonreligion. Secular states do not have a state religion or equivalent, although the absence of a state religion does not guarantee that a state is secular.

Secular states become secular either upon establishment of the state or upon secularization of the state (e.g. France). Movements for laïcité in France and for the separation of church and state in the United States defined modern concepts of secularism. Historically, the process of secularising states typically involves granting religious freedom, disestablishing state religions, stopping public funds to be used for a religion, freeing the legal system from religious control, freeing up the education system, tolerating citizens who change religion or abstain from religion, and allowing political leadership to come to power regardless of religious beliefs.[2]


That doesn't look tolerant to you? Surely it's a lot more tolerant than societies where the religious go on rampages killing a dozen of their own fellows, all because thousands of miles away in another country across the seas some idiot has burnt a Quo'ran?


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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #13 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 6:28pm
 
Quote:
When you can show me where the word undermine or conquer or anything like them was used alongside strategy, then I'll answer these.


Your ideal society has no genuine democracy right? Do you see how that would be interpretted as undermining? Also, the denial of basic personal freedoms, equality of the sexes before the law etc also undermine what we see as the fundamentals of our society.

Quote:
So if Christians can take our land and turn it into a majority of another religion, then I'm sure we can reciprocate.


Are you agreeing with the bloodshed comment?

Quote:
There is nothing inherently tolerant about secularism.


It is inherently tolerant on matters of religion - something that cannot be said of Islam and Islamic law, which is inherently intolerant.
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Re: strategic promotion of political Islam
Reply #14 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 6:30pm
 
Also Abu why did you use the term propaganda? Are you suggesting that the promotion of Islam should not be entirely open and honest about Islam?
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