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Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership (Read 16845 times)
Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #15 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:01pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 11:55am:
____ wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 8:59am:
Greg Hunt has shown the Coalition are not really interested in curbing the effects of global warming and are only concerned with appearances.....There policy is based on doing as little as possible without challenging the big polluters or taking the hard decisions to support the science they supposedly believe in.....The Coalitions policies on climate change have been challenged and found to fall way short of what is required to meet our targets.....This is just further evidence that the coalition are still a do nothing party when it comes to the environment!!!

Angry




And the Hard Right wonder why The Greens didn't back the Abbott's coalition for government after the last election.

Abbott is anti Australian.


How did the breakdown over the NSW results go?



He could always go home you know.

I went out for a few beers with one of the visiting sales reps from Auckland and he tells me that John Key is doing an awesome job.

Recently increased GST from 12.5% to 15% and offset that by reducing personal income taxes and lengthening the tax brackets.
Everyday New Zealanders got a tax cut of over 2% as a result.

John Key apparently doesn't draw a salary from the Government either and does the job for the love it.

How refreshing does that sound?
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #16 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:01pm
 


Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 11:53am:
I would have each country sign up a binding agreement that ALL countries are capped to the same % as their 1990 emissions levels.

That would enable countries like Australia to not have to cut so drastically because India and China emissions would fall off a cliff.

Everyone needs to be capped to the same % level as their 1990 level.

That's your benchmark.




As you well know, that would simply entrench existing unacceptably-gross levels of inequity across the globe - yet you seem to have no qualms whatsoever about advocating same...

The only fair and responsible thing to do, is to set per-capita limits - which would mean that wealthy countries would need to dramatically-reduce their wantonly-irresponsible patterns of over-consumption and waste and allow the poorer peoples of the planet to improve their living standards (with reliable household electricity, clean water on tap and safe sewerage infrastructure being the bare minimum that any human being should be entitled to)...

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #17 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:05pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 11:53am:
I would have each country sign up a binding agreement that ALL countries are capped to the same % as their 1990 emissions levels.

That would enable countries like Australia to not have to cut so drastically because India and China emissions would fall off a cliff.

Everyone needs to be capped to the same % level as their 1990 level.

That's your benchmark.


So the relative difference between the commercialisation in India and China over the last twenty years is comparable to everywhere else in the world?
You probably cheat at patience too.
What about setting levels on per capita carbon output, and what india and china had in 1990, becomes the target for all industrialised nations, I mean it is still 1990 levels, just coming at it from a different angle, would that seem as fair to you as you think your proposal is fair to china and india?
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #18 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:10pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 11:53am:
I would have each country sign up a binding agreement that ALL countries are capped to the same % as their 1990 emissions levels.

That would enable countries like Australia to not have to cut so drastically because India and China emissions would fall off a cliff.

Everyone needs to be capped to the same % level as their 1990 level.

That's your benchmark.


Again an easy thing to say but lets just break it down.
The whole reason that India and China are producing so much CO2 is that they are emerging from 3rd world to 1st world countries.The populace in those countries want what we have.
So the question becomes do you make that percentage so we lock in poverty to those nations or reduce our standard of living to theirs?
Who makes the biggest sacrifice us or them?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #19 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:12pm
 
Per capita is a ridiculous argument.

You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.

No, per capita does not work.

1990 levels worked in 1990, they can work again.

Sorry but why did we start to formulate policy positions which help our competitors and rivals?
India and China are not our friends, we owe them nothing.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #20 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:14pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:10pm:
The whole reason that India and China are producing so much CO2 is that they are emerging from 3rd world to 1st world countries.The populace in those countries want what we have.
?



Again - how is that our problem?

It's basically in our interests both environmentally and for competitive advantage to have these countries have a lower cost and standard of living than we do.

I fail to see why we should be helping out India and China - how is that our responsibility?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #21 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:16pm
 
By the way let me know if any of you blokes float a company.

Formulating policy to help out your competitors, I'd happily forward-trade your company shares betting on serious losses.

That is not how to run a business.

Remember - we have to run countries like economic businesses.

Helping out China and India??? Why?
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #22 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:19pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:12pm:
Per capita is a ridiculous argument.

You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.

No, per capita does not work.

1990 levels worked in 1990, they can work again.

Sorry but why did we start to formulate policy positions which help our competitors and rivals?
India and China are not our friends, we owe them nothing.

And there's your biggest problem, we don't live in separate bubbles immune from each other actions.
1990 levels aren't the benchmark to halt the reactions they are just the least painful for western countries to achieve.
Are you serious or not, by localising it shows your not, as you yourself said it's a global problem requiring global solutions.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #23 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:20pm
 
I'm not localising it.

I am saying the solution is to return to where everybody was in 1990 or to a % based on that.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #24 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:23pm
 
The problem in China mate is dire.

Even the other week a Captain who bases out of Hong Kong was telling my dad how bad visibility is there now.

This fella has been there since the 1980s when he was a wee 2nd officer and has seen what has happened.

It's all the carbon producing factories that China has sprung up everywhere. Why are we allowing that to happen?

Have you seen the stats of Chinese respiratory cases?
Even the Communist Government's adjusted figures are frightening - god only know what the real numbers are.

There is the problem.
Not in Australia.
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #25 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:25pm
 
Quote:
You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.


You might want to compare birthrates of the 1st world to the 3rd world.
As a country becomes more prosporus the birth rate falls.
No longer do they need to have 10 kids because 4 die in infancy and they need 6 to work the fields to eat.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #26 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:30pm
 



Who wants fair or humane solutions, when the lop-sided global economy, as we have come to know believe it, is at stake!?
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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #27 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:31pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:25pm:
Quote:
You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.


You might want to compare birthrates of the 1st world to the 3rd world.
As a country becomes more prosporus the birth rate falls.
No longer do they need to have 10 kids because 4 die in infancy and they need 6 to work the fields to eat.



Really?
Would you explain to me why in Britain the birth rates of South Asian families is over 3 times that of white British people.

Or are they living in squalor?
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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #28 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:32pm
 


Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:31pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:25pm:
Quote:
You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.


You might want to compare birthrates of the 1st world to the 3rd world.
As a country becomes more prosporus the birth rate falls.
No longer do they need to have 10 kids because 4 die in infancy and they need 6 to work the fields to eat.



Really?
Would you explain to me why in Britain the birth rates of South Asian families is over 3 times that of white British people.

Or are they living in squalor?



Clearly, you wouldn't accept the explanation - since you didn't come up with it first...

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Re: Greg Hunt nails Tony Abbotts leadership
Reply #29 - Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:34pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:31pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2011 at 12:25pm:
Quote:
You'd basically enable countries who dramatically increase their population to pollute much more.


You might want to compare birthrates of the 1st world to the 3rd world.
As a country becomes more prosporus the birth rate falls.
No longer do they need to have 10 kids because 4 die in infancy and they need 6 to work the fields to eat.



Really?
Would you explain to me why in Britain the birth rates of South Asian families is over 3 times that of white British people.

Or are they living in squalor?

Don't pick a subgroup out that changes the argument.
Look at the Islanders here they punch out on average 6 kids but Australia's and Britians overall birthrates are in decline.
FFS we have to import 100k of immigrants a year to keep our economy moving along and maintain our standard of living.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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