Australian Politics Forum - 1000 years plan

FRED.

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #15 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:10pm

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And now Tony Abbott misrepresents Flannery; will the media call him on it?
March 29, 2011 – 9:34 am, by Jeremy Sear
Further to the shameless and idiotic noisemaking of the trollumnists on which we commented yesterday, it now seems that the unpopular Liberal leader Tony Abbott is now outright misrepresenting Flannery’s remarks in Parliament:

But yesterday, as the role of the carbon tax in Labor’s massive loss in the NSW election dominated federal political exchanges, Mr Abbott quoted Professor Flannery as he ridiculed the tax as “the ultimate millenium bug”.

“It will not make a difference for 1000 years,” the Opposition Leader told parliament. “So this is a government which is proposing to put at risk our manufacturing industry, to penalise struggling families, to make a tough situation worse for millions of households right around Australia. And for what? To make not a scrap of difference to the environment any time in the next 1000 years.”

.What Flannery actually said:

If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years.

.“Not going to drop” is clearly not the same as “make not a scrap of difference”. Nor is “several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years” the same as “not… any time in the next 1000 years”.

We’re talking about a system in which the temperature is increasing. The best we can hope for in the shorter term is to slow that increase down, maybe if we’re lucky stop it completely. The more countries that act, the better our chances, and the quicker we’ll reduce the damage. That Flannery thinks there’s a prospect of actually reducing the levels back to the levels of today, or pre-industrial levels, is very reassuring – but the time-scale he talks about is nothing to do with when there’d first be a difference between acting and not acting.

Even if it’ll take a long time to return the system to the earlier levels (and I’m glad to hear that that’s even possible), the immediate challenge is to reduce the increase. That’s what the proposed action is supposed to achieve, and that’s what we’re debating.

So Abbott’s misrepresentation of Flannery’s remark is not only dishonest, it also indicates that he hasn’t the faintest idea what his opponents are actually talking about.

Labor and climate scientists and the Greens and anyone with an interest in rational public debate all need to be out there right now squashing this stupid meme before it takes any more hold on the gullible. Because once this one sinks in, they’ll find something even more outrageously stupid and build up the ignorance even further. It has to be tackled now, and exposed for the moronic fraud it is.

Let’s see who in the media actually call Abbott on his shameless misrepresentation of Flannery, and the ignorance about the actual proposal that his remarks reveal. Anyone?

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/03/29/and-now-tony-abbott-misrepresen.../

GET UP LOL Grin

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: 1000 years plan Reply #16 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames. After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel. Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway. Dumbasses
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perceptions_now

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #17 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:26pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 8:29am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 7:27am:

The issue is about adding carbon to the atmosphere and adding to global warming......Seizing on one hypothesis and using this prediction as a caveat to discredit climate change is typical of the Liberal faithful.....The effects of adding carbon to the atmosphere are well documented and accepted by the majority of climate scientists.....I hope Abbott's comments once and for all cement his position as a climate change denier......Australia cannot afford to have a leader who believes in god unconditionally but does not believe in science.....What will Abbott's solution be to fixing the drought will it be to pray for rain like his predecessor John Howard???

http://www.theage.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Pray-for-rain-urges-Howard/2007/04/22/117...

Mr Howard warned last week that farmers in the Murray-Darling Basin faced having no water for the coming irrigation year unless heavy rain fell in the next six to eight weeks.

On Sunday he said he intended to meet irrigators over coming weeks to discuss the grim situation.

Meanwhile, he encouraged people to seek divine intervention.

"It's very serious, it's unprecedented in my lifetime and I really feel very deeply for the people affected," Mr Howard told ABC Television.

"So we should all, literally and without any irony, pray for rain over the next six to eight weeks."

Wink

People prayed and the rain came...

your problems is...?

Ah, we're back to Noah & his ark, are we?

But then, with you, it usually is "back to the future" & deja vu, again & again & again!

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Soren

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #18 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:27pm

Quote:

Labor and climate scientists and the Greens and anyone with an interest in rational public debate all need to be out there right now squashing this stupid meme before it takes any more hold on the gullible. Because once this one sinks in, they’ll find something even more outrageously stupid and build up the ignorance even further. It has to be tackled now, and exposed for the moronic fraud it is.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/03/29/and-now-tony-abbott-misrepresen.../

Fool is writing for Crikey. Congratulations!

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mavisdavis Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1512	Re: 1000 years plan Reply #19 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:37pm chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 7:28am: I think the government is going to have a bit of bother implementing their air tax. HMPPPH! Just look at the problems they`re having trying to implement their air heads!
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Dsmithy70

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #20 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:42pm

Quote:

Louise Maher: If we stopped all human activity on the planet tomorrow, what would be Earth’s temperature fall? What would be the drop in the Earth’s temperature?

Andy Pitman: And here’s our problem. It wouldn’t drop. If we could stop emissions tomorrow we’d still have 20 to 30 years of warming ahead of us because of inertia of the system. It’s like a juggernaut going up the freeway. You slam on the breaks, but it takes a long time to stop. We are already committed to the climate of 2040.

What these emissions reductions are about is how much we can reduce warming into the medium term to protect, for instance, the planet for our grandchildren. It’s on those timescales that we’re terrified

. On the timescales of 20 to 30 years, I’m sorry but we have already hard-wired the warming into the system.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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gizmo_2655

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #21 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:45pm

Quote:

That Flannery thinks there’s a prospect of actually reducing the levels back to the levels of today, or pre-industrial levels, is very reassuring –

So do you actually think it's a good idea to return to temperatures of the pre-industrial revolution???

A time of wide spread famine, the river Thames freezing over for 2 months (with ice to a thickness of 28cm) and sea ice along the coasts of England, France and the Netherlands?????

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #22 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:58pm

Quote:

And now Tony Abbott misrepresents Flannery; will the media call him on it?
March 29, 2011 – 9:34 am, by Jeremy Sear
Further to the shameless and idiotic noisemaking of the trollumnists on which we commented yesterday, it now seems that the unpopular Liberal leader Tony Abbott is now outright misrepresenting Flannery’s remarks in Parliament:

But yesterday, as the role of the carbon tax in Labor’s massive loss in the NSW election dominated federal political exchanges, Mr Abbott quoted Professor Flannery as he ridiculed the tax as “the ultimate millenium bug”.

“It will not make a difference for 1000 years,” the Opposition Leader told parliament. “So this is a government which is proposing to put at risk our manufacturing industry, to penalise struggling families, to make a tough situation worse for millions of households right around Australia. And for what? To make not a scrap of difference to the environment any time in the next 1000 years.”

.What Flannery actually said:

If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years.

.“Not going to drop” is clearly not the same as “make not a scrap of difference”. Nor is “several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years” the same as “not… any time in the next 1000 years”.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/03/29/and-now-tony-abbott-misrepresen.../

But it has to drop vege.
It simply must.
The ice is melting NOW, and the islands are sinking NOW as I type this.
And if we don't do something the sky will fall in and then what.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #23 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #24 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #25 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:27pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

People have killed themselves intentionally or otherwise with carbon monoxide and electricity.
And plenty of them for a very long time in many different countries.
And both of them are man made too.
But how many have died anywhere due to a man made global warming theory?
Electricity and carbon monoxide is no theory, nor are the dangers associated with them.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #26 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:34pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

People have killed themselves intentionally or otherwise with carbon monoxide and electricity.
And plenty of them for a very long time in many different countries.
And both of them are man made too.
But how many have died anywhere due to a man made global warming theory?
Electricity and carbon monoxide is no theory, nor are the dangers associated with them.

So in your world we have to wait until a certain amount of people are dead.
What is that magic number we have to reach?
How many will die due to crop failures with extended droughts?
How many will die when water tables are polluted with salt water making it impossible to grow crops.
How many, a million, 10 million, 1 billion and do these deaths have to be white westerners as well??
If the are just poor Bangladeshies or Sri Lankins will they matter??? I suppose you can label those trying to escape que jumpers/illegals as well should work in well with Tones xenophobic rhetoric.
Do you believe in GOD???
I suppose not as you cant see him either.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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gizmo_2655

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #27 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:36pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

People have killed themselves intentionally or otherwise with carbon monoxide and electricity.
And plenty of them for a very long time in many different countries.
And both of them are man made too.
But how many have died anywhere due to a man made global warming theory?
Electricity and carbon monoxide is no theory, nor are the dangers associated with them.

So in your world we have to wait until a certain amount of people are dead.
What is that magic number we have to reach?
How many will die due to crop failures with extended droughts?
How many will die when water tables are polluted with salt water making it impossible to grow crops.
How many, a million, 10 million, 1 billion and do these deaths have to be white westerners as well??
If the are just poor Bangladeshies or Sri Lankins will they matter??? I suppose you can label those trying to escape que jumpers/illegals as well should work in well with Tones xenophobic rhetoric.
Do you believe in GOD???
I suppose not as you cant see him either.

How about just ONE correct 'prediction'?????

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #28 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:36pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

People have killed themselves intentionally or otherwise with carbon monoxide and electricity.
And plenty of them for a very long time in many different countries.
And both of them are man made too.
But how many have died anywhere due to a man made global warming theory?
Electricity and carbon monoxide is no theory, nor are the dangers associated with them.

So in your world we have to wait until a certain amount of people are dead.
What is that magic number we have to reach?
How many will die due to crop failures with extended droughts?
How many will die when water tables are polluted with salt water making it impossible to grow crops.
How many, a million, 10 million, 1 billion and do these deaths have to be white westerners as well??
If the are just poor Bangladeshies or Sri Lankins will they matter??? I suppose you can label those trying to escape que jumpers/illegals as well should work in well with Tones xenophobic rhetoric.
Do you believe in GOD???
I suppose not as you cant see him either.

How many of these doomsday secnarios will be prevented by the government collecting a few more billion $$$ of our hard-earned to set up another useless bureaucracy?

That's right - zero.

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In the fullness of time...

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: 1000 years plan
Reply #29 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:42pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

So lets put it this way, if your house is on fire I assume liberal voters would just sit on their lawn & throw balloons full of petrol into the flames.
After all that's basically what your advocating with this drivel.
Baths overflowing, oh well no need to turn the tap off as the bathmat will take a week to dry anyway.
Dumbasses

Not much of an analogy there dssmith.
As one can actually see a house burning.
And your melodramatic linking of throwing petrol on a burning house to the unproven man made climate change theory is irrelevant.

You cant see electricity 99% of the time either, care to stick a fork into one of your power points.
You cant see carbon monoxide either care to run a hose back into your car?
So you cant see it therefore its not real, & you call my argument weak Grin

People have killed themselves intentionally or otherwise with carbon monoxide and electricity.
And plenty of them for a very long time in many different countries.
And both of them are man made too.
But how many have died anywhere due to a man made global warming theory?
Electricity and carbon monoxide is no theory, nor are the dangers associated with them.

So in your world we have to wait until a certain amount of people are dead.
What is that magic number we have to reach?
How many will die due to crop failures with extended droughts?
How many will die when water tables are polluted with salt water making it impossible to grow crops.
How many, a million, 10 million, 1 billion and do these deaths have to be white westerners as well??
If the are just poor Bangladeshies or Sri Lankins will they matter??? I suppose you can label those trying to escape que jumpers/illegals as well should work in well with Tones xenophobic rhetoric.
Do you believe in GOD???
I suppose not as you cant see him either.

How about one then?
Is that enough to justify ruining a nations economy for do you think?
Because electricity and carbon monoxide have killed thousands.
Are we getting rid of electricity or cars any time soon?
Crop failures with extended drought was occurring long before the industrial age.
Your point being?
And where is all this salt water, last time I saw it it wasn't in the fields and despite all the hullabaloo, the oceans haven't risen.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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