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Racism vs Free Speech (Read 20919 times)
Soren
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #15 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:29am
 
Indeed, in 2008 the EU approved its so-called "Council Framework Decision on combating Racism and Xenophobia," and the EU's 27 nations have since had to incorporate it into their national legislation. The decision orders that "racist or xenophobic behavior must constitute an offence in all Member States and be punishable by effective, proportionate and dissuasive penalties." It defines "racism and xenophobia" so broadly that every statement that an individual might perceive as insulting to a group to which he belongs becomes punishable by law.

The perverse result is that in Europe it is now all but impossible to have a debate about the nature of Islam, or about the effects of immigration of Islam's adherents. Take my own case, for example. My point is that Islam is not so much a religion as it is a totalitarian political ideology disguised as a religion. To avoid misunderstandings, I always emphasize that I am talking about Islam, not about Muslims. I make a clear distinction between the people and the ideology, between Muslims and Islam, recognizing that there are many moderate Muslims. But the political ideology of Islam is not moderate and has global ambitions; the Koran orders Muslims to establish the realm of Allah in this world, if necessary by force.

Stating my views on Islam has brought me to court on charges of "group insult" and incitement to racial hatred. I am being tried for voicing opinions that I—and my constituents—consider to be the truth. I am being tried for challenging the views that the ruling establishment wants to impose on us as the truth.

When I stand before my judges I do so in defense of free speech and human liberty. Freedom is the source of human creativity and development. People and nations wither away without the freedom to question what is presented to them as the truth. There is reason for concern if the erosion of our freedom of speech is the price we must pay to accommodate Islam. There is reason for concern if those who deny that Islam is a problem do not grant us the right to debate the issue. I want to be able to make my case without needing to fear criminal prosecution. It is already bad enough that I have been living under permanent police protection for more than six years because jihadists want to murder me.
My trial is a political trial. It is tragic that after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, political trials in Europe were not cast onto the ash heap of history. Former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky has previously referred to the European Union as the "EUSSR." One of his arguments is that in the EU, as in the former USSR, there is no freedom of speech.

I should be acquitted. My trial in Amsterdam is not about me, but about freedom of speech in Europe. As Dwight D. Eisenhower, Europe's liberator from Nazism, once warned, freedom "must be daily earned and refreshed—else like a flower cut from its life-giving roots, it will wither and die." Today in Europe, freedom is being neither earned nor refreshed.

Mr. Wilders is a member of the Dutch Parliament. He is leader of the Party for Freedom.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146332536459942.html
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No one has the right not to be offended.
 
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JC Denton
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #16 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:32am
 
where the wilders tihng are
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Today's Anglo Aussies seem to be happy being the servants to other more motivated and intelligent races


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Lisa Jones
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #17 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:39am
 
Some very interesting and well considered posts in here today.



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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. - Albert Einstein
 
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muso
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #18 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am
 
I think a lot of people tend to confuse racism and criticism of religion. Religion is a matter of choice and should be open to criticism. Skin colour is not.
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...
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Honky
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #19 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:51am
 
muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think a lot of people tend to confuse racism and criticism of religion. Religion is a matter of choice and should be open to criticism. Skin colour is not.



But the behaviours that lead to the formation of a link in peoples minds between that skin colour and negative traits IS a matter of choice.  I doubt many people hate people BECAUSE OF the colour of their skin, but rather the other traits, such as propensity to violence/crime/laziness etc which have become associated with that colour skin, or people of that race.
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Soren
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #20 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:58am
 
muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think a lot of people tend to confuse racism and criticism of religion. Religion is a matter of choice and should be open to criticism. Skin colour is not.



Just so.

I would add criticism of  'cultural practice' to criticism of religion.  Both are matters of choice and so should be open to criticism (and ridicule, as they already are when it comes to westerners).

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #21 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:01pm
 
muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think a lot of people tend to confuse racism and criticism of religion. Religion is a matter of choice and should be open to criticism. Skin colour is not.



Muso - many thanks for coming in and giving us your constructive reply. It would be great if other Mods could follow suit and come in and share their constructive replies re racism vs free speech

Now .. let's look at anti semiticism for a brief moment (where Jews are the target group). Are we talking race or religion?

Sometimes the lines are blurred <-- that is my real point.

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. - Albert Einstein
 
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Honky
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #22 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:04pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:01pm:
muso wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:44am:
I think a lot of people tend to confuse racism and criticism of religion. Religion is a matter of choice and should be open to criticism. Skin colour is not.



Muso - many thanks for coming in and giving us your constructive reply. It would be great if other Mods could follow suit and come in and share their constructive replies re racism vs free speech

Now .. let's look at anti semiticism for a brief moment (where Jews are the target group). Are we talking race or religion?

Sometimes the lines are blurred <-- that is my real point.




They would say both.
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JC Denton
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #23 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:10pm
 
they would say whatever benefits them most in the situation theyre in at the moment
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Today's Anglo Aussies seem to be happy being the servants to other more motivated and intelligent races


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Axle
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #24 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:13pm
 
Wesley,

Racism isn't natural but group affiliation is. Who's in and out changes over time. There's nothing natural about racism. And people in the past haven't bonded over "race". The whole racist ideology is something relatively new in human history.

And if you're talking about crime, violence etc being associated with skin colour are you referring to say, bikies?

Racism isn't about freedom let alone freedom of speech, it's about restriction and suppression and the undermining of rights.


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Honky
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #25 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:13pm
 
Axle wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:13pm:
Wesley,

Racism isn't natural but group affiliation is. Who's in and out changes over time. There's nothing natural about racism. And people in the past haven't bonded over "race". The whole racist ideology is something relatively new in human history.

And if you're talking about crime, violence etc being associated with skin colour are you referring to say, bikies?

Racism isn't about freedom let alone freedom of speech, it's about restriction and suppression and the undermining of rights.





What skin colour is a bikie?
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #26 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:16pm
 

In any progressive society every belioef and every person must be able to be criticised and questioned thoroughly.

if that is not possible, the society is self limiting.

Freedom of speech must reign over any percieved racism, sexism or abusive claims.

those that misuse this freedom will be shown up for their ignorance.
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Classic Right Wing
 
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JC Denton
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #27 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:16pm
 
axle is a tool

Mod: 48 hours this time. Have a nice holiday.
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:18am by muso »  

Quote:
Today's Anglo Aussies seem to be happy being the servants to other more motivated and intelligent races


~ Adelcrow
 
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JC Denton
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #28 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:17pm
 
Code:
[size=24]AXLE RIDER[/size] 

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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:33pm by JC Denton »  

Quote:
Today's Anglo Aussies seem to be happy being the servants to other more motivated and intelligent races


~ Adelcrow
 
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Axle
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Re: Racism vs Free Speech
Reply #29 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:19pm
 
You tell me, Wesley. You're the one talking about the association of skin colour and crime. It seems to me that all skin colours are involved in it. I'm sure, I wouldn't get any Hell's Angel disagreeing.
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