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A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said. (Read 3270 times)
imcrookonit
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A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Feb 15th, 2011 at 5:52am
 
THE Gold Coast's largest building project is at a standstill after more than 250 workers walked off the job amid claims of cheap foreign workers being imported to replace local tradesmen.   Sad

The construction workers have walked off the $850 million Soul development in Surfers Paradise amid claims 10 workmates were sacked in favour of Korean tilers.   Shocked

Tiling subcontractor Paul Kim, who hires foreign workers, has also confirmed some have used a warehouse in Yatala for temporary accommodation.

About 270 CFMEU and BLF workers downed tools yesterday and are threatening further strike action this morning if about 10 colleagues are not reinstated.



CFMEU construction coordinator Bud Neiland said tilers working for the union were paid $40 an hour but foreigners, who worked for Saba Bros Tiling Pty Ltd contractor Paul Kim, had told him they were paid $14 an hour.   Angry

"Half of the blokes tiling on this job are on work visas," he said.

"I spoke to Peter Saba before.

"I said, 'Pete we've got to give the guys with Aussie citizenship the work, it's flooding the industry'.

"A poor Aussie bloke can't get a job," he said.   Sad

David Campbell said he was directly employed by Saba Bros as a tiler but was laid off with about eight others on Friday.

He said they had been sacked and re-hired twice after asking for back pay and entitlements.

"We were to be working up until level 39, but last week once again the people who hadn't got their back pay went to the union," he said.

"The union came in last Wednesday and we were told our employment was to be terminated on Friday due to redundancy -- not enough work.

"But they had brought in other people from Sydney to do tiling here and they are still here.   Angry

"We are being told they are being paid $10 to $40 an hour."

Mr Kim denied the other tilers, most of whom are understood to be from Korea, were paid $14 an hour and said they had the same entitlements as Australian workers.

Earlier yesterday he said workers sometimes used the Saba Bros warehouse in Yatala for two to three days when they did not have other accommodation, but later he said that happened "a long time ago".

Now "nobody was in there" and there were no Korean tilers staying there.

"Sometimes when they come from Sydney they don't have accommodation," he said.

Requests for a tour of the Saba premises were refused by an office staff member who said there were workplace health and safety issues.

Peter Saba yesterday denied any workers had ever stayed in his warehouse and said they were provided accommodation when they arrived from other areas.

"Paul Kim and his workers are staying in the best units in the Gold Coast" he said, and when asked for a tour of the business said he could show the rented houses of the workers.

"That is untrue completely. Not in my warehouse unless they are staying in somebody else's warehouse," he said.

"I don't believe that he (Paul Kim) would say that. Even if that's true, that's an untrue statement."

Mr Saba said the Korean workers did "double the work" of Australian tilers and were sometimes paid more than them.

"They are not necessarily better workers but they are quicker," he said.

Late yesterday union officials said an agreement had been reached that all foreign workers on the site would have to sign paperwork from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship listing their background and work rights in Australia.   Wink

No tiling work will be conducted until work rights have been verified.

Workers have agreed to meet at 6am today at the beachfront side of the Soul development.

A spokeswoman for Grocon, which is the company building the site, said: "We are talking to Saba Bros to ensure all people have appropriate documentation and are paid the appropriate rate."

"I am told we have had some Malaysian and Korean tilers on the job for 18 months."
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cods
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 7:49am
 
well I am with them in this case crook that could be a first..

no to overseas workers before our own..

however we have a bit of a conundrum when it comes to overseas aid.. as its somehow the same thing..


do we give to overseas aid.. whilst taxing our own to help recover from a flood.mmmmmmmmmmm!!
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am
 
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic.  There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:56am
 
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic.  There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.




so right verge the union in this country have made us very short sighted. but I cant see crook agreeing with that.. some how I find it hard to believ that $14 an hour is the price tilers get in their award..I know cleaners that get more than that.

somewhere along the line we will and should expect more from our workers than whats happening now..the union have turned us into a lazy lot and to expect more for less seems to be the norm..

if as you say employers get more value for their dollar from foreign labour what can you expect. I mean we expect unskilled labor to be paid top dollar..
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:58am
 
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic.  There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.




There are quick jobs and there are good jobs.

A good job is usually not quick.

A quick job is usually sub-standard.

You can't have both.
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:21am
 
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic. There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.


they don't have the same work ethic because as apprentices they get exploited and are paid sh.t money Sad

how about we start at the top and start addressing exorbitant CEO salaries and bonuses ??

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:22am
 
You get what you pay for.....sub-standard work.
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:42am
 
Where's my violin?
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:47am
 
Kat wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:58am:
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic.  There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.




There are quick jobs and there are good jobs.

A good job is usually not quick.

A quick job is usually sub-standard.

You can't have both.


There has been no reference to sub standard work whatsoever, not even the union has made that claim.

Why can my old man who is in his late 60's still put down 35 square metres of tiling in a day when those literally half his age struggle with 25?

Why can he still throw down 800 bricks a day on average while mixing his own mud yet 450 a day is considered the average?  Its because while they are dicking around talking, on the phone and making sure they have all their breaks and only work their minimum hours he just plugs away all the time and leaves his phone in his car from when he gets there. 

In the building trade the biggest issue isnt the so called crap money as apprentices, its the good money as tradesmen.  I was talking to a mate who is 27 and been in the brickie game since he left school at 17.  When I asked him how many he was throwing down he said 450 on a good day, 400 on average.  When I asked him why he wasnt throwing down more his answer was "why work harder when Im making $400 a day anyway".  When I raised things like no annual leave pay, rainy days etc he just said "I still make enough, its what we all do knowdays."
I lined him up 10 days worth of work with my old man and even though he completed the 10 days vowed to never do it again.  He reckons he works too hard, too a long of hours and throws to many bricks a day down to keep up with.  There is over 40 years difference between the two and countless numbers of surguries and this pup couldnt handle it.
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:52am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:21am:
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic. There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.


they don't have the same work ethic because as apprentices they get exploited and are paid sh.t money Sad

how about we start at the top and start addressing exorbitant CEO salaries and bonuses ??



And if we paid more as apprentices they would have a better work eithic as tradesmen - Crap.  Pure crap thy.

I dont give two craps about CEO pays, this isnt about that.

Its about a lazy workforce who as tradies are so well paid nowdays that they dont push through the work like they used to.

You want to talk about crap apprentiship wages, all the old boys kicking around done it a lot harder, lot longer hours and under a lot tougher conditions then those of today would even contemplate.

Its for this reason I never pay a tiler, bricklayer etc anything other than peice rate for the work they do, and would never consider an hourly rate.  If you want your money, work for it.

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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:53am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:22am:
You get what you pay for.....sub-standard work.


Any reference made by the union even of substandard work?  If there was it would have been definatley in there dont you think.
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 10:16am
 
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:52am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:21am:
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic. There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.


they don't have the same work ethic because as apprentices they get exploited and are paid sh.t money Sad

how about we start at the top and start addressing exorbitant CEO salaries and bonuses ??



And if we paid more as apprentices they would have a better work eithic as tradesmen - Crap.  Pure crap thy.

I dont give two craps about CEO pays, this isnt about that.

Its about a lazy workforce who as tradies are so well paid nowdays that they dont push through the work like they used to.

You want to talk about crap apprentiship wages, all the old boys kicking around done it a lot harder, lot longer hours and under a lot tougher conditions then those of today would even contemplate.

Its for this reason I never pay a tiler, bricklayer etc anything other than peice rate for the work they do, and would never consider an hourly rate.  If you want your money, work for it.



but it's NOT OK for those same workers being put out of a job by cheap foreign labor to go searching for a bargain from china on ebay instead of paying through the nose from your mate Hardly Normal ??

remember all of those retail jobs at Hardly Normal that you were worried about just because people were looking for a bargain online ??

Double standards isn't it Verge !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #12 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 10:20am
 
Manual labour work is better positioned in low labour cost countries Lastnail.

Pure economics tells you this.

Even after factoring in the supply chain increases, the savings are ten times over.

The jobs we sent to India in my last role had a cost of $40k p/a in Melbourne and $500 p/a in India.

That's $39k savings PER HEADCOUNT.

Multiply that by 1,000 jobs and you have savings of $39,000,000 to shareholders in headcount alone!!!!!!
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #13 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 11:10am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 10:16am:
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:52am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 9:21am:
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:19am:
What Saba pays their employees is no one elses business except for Saba, the employees and fairwork Australia.

Secondly, if you dont like the fact people can employ those on 457 visas, lobby the government to stop them but since they do have a legal right to work I have no problems employing them.

What is most sad is how reference was made to how much quicker the Korean tilers were.  After having grown up on building sites I personally can vouch that the next generation of tradesmen through are lazy.  All the old boys kicking around are still running rings around the young ones who just dont have the same work ethic. There is no such thing anymore as work until the jobs done then knock off, its all about getting to work 1 minute before the start and leaving on the stroke of knock off time and it doesnt matter how much it inconviences all the other tradies or homeowners.

I personally think these guys have contracts and deadlines to meet.  If the Koreans are legal and quicker, than I say best man for the job.  If you dont like it, pick up your game.  It might put a cracker under a few of these Aussie blokes.


they don't have the same work ethic because as apprentices they get exploited and are paid sh.t money Sad

how about we start at the top and start addressing exorbitant CEO salaries and bonuses ??



And if we paid more as apprentices they would have a better work eithic as tradesmen - Crap.  Pure crap thy.

I dont give two craps about CEO pays, this isnt about that.

Its about a lazy workforce who as tradies are so well paid nowdays that they dont push through the work like they used to.

You want to talk about crap apprentiship wages, all the old boys kicking around done it a lot harder, lot longer hours and under a lot tougher conditions then those of today would even contemplate.

Its for this reason I never pay a tiler, bricklayer etc anything other than peice rate for the work they do, and would never consider an hourly rate.  If you want your money, work for it.



but it's NOT OK for those same workers being put out of a job by cheap foreign labor to go searching for a bargain from china on ebay instead of paying through the nose from your mate Hardly Normal ??

remember all of those retail jobs at Hardly Normal that you were worried about just because people were looking for a bargain online ??

Double standards isn't it Verge !!


And you were the one saying it was a global market was it not?

The main issue I picked up on was not the cheaper rate, but the faster completion of work.  What is your response to that?

They arent out of a job, head an hour up to Brisbane and they will be working their ring out on the flood damaged buildings.  They are out of this job because they are too slow.  When you have contracts and deadlines to meet you can not drag the chain.
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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Re: A Poor Aussie Bloke Cant Get A Job, He Said.
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2011 at 11:26am
 
Verge wrote on Feb 15th, 2011 at 11:10am:
And you were the one saying it was a global market was it not?

The main issue I picked up on was not the cheaper rate, but the faster completion of work.  What is your response to that?

They arent out of a job, head an hour up to Brisbane and they will be working their ring out on the flood damaged buildings.  They are out of this job because they are too slow.  When you have contracts and deadlines to meet you can not drag the chain.


Yes but Gerry Harvey goes scouring around 3rd world countries looking for the cheapest deals he can find whilst charging 1st world retail prices to locals who have been done out of a job by a 3rd world labor force !! Then when he realizes that they no longer get paid enough to pay his ripoff prices he hatches up a plan to stitch them up to credit using entrapment and predatory lending practices !! Either way people living in this country are being screwed every which way Sad

You can't have it all of your way !! Something has to give !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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