Australian Politics Forum - Sack The Union Jack

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47356 At my desk.	Re: Sack The Union Jack Reply #15 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.
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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #16 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.

I can't believe people want to change the flag, without discussing real political change in Australia - for me, I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

The flag is a total side issue, much like how our head of state is chosen.

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nichy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1812 Gender:	Re: Sack The Union Jack Reply #17 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:50am If it's not broke, why fix it ? Australia works extremely well. We've never been troubled by dictators, and never had our fundamental freedoms threatened. As for the Queen, she's where we prefer - far away, keeping out of politics.
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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #18 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:08am

Except for education, water and health, where the states and commonwealth are in constant conflict.

Where a referendum that can achieve a substantial majority can be knocked down because it doesn't pass the majority of states - 8 out of 44 referenda passed tells you something

Where the three levels of government are not responsible or answerable to each other.

"If it ain't broke" - well, that's where we differ.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #19 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:18am

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

In the modern age I can't see any reason why a nation with a small population like ours needs three levels of government. We should get rid of state governments, they are little more than "service providers" anyway (some of them can't even do that properly).

It is ironic that 5 years ago when all the states were Labor, John Howard (and his cheer squads on discussion boards) were loudly proposing that the states should be abolished...........strangely the Liberals and their supporters have been very quiet about that recently. Grin

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FRED.

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #20 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:22am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:18am:

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

In the modern age I can't see any reason why a nation with a small population like ours needs three levels of government. We should get rid of state governments, they are little more than "service providers" anyway (some of them can't even do that properly).

It is ironic that 5 years ago when all the states were Labor, John Howard (and his cheer squads on discussion boards) were loudly proposing that the states should be abolished...........strangely the Liberals and their supporters have been very quiet about that recently. Grin

Could that be because of the current f/up federal govt we need solid state govts Wink

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Classic Liberal Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 769 sydney Gender:	Re: Sack The Union Jack Reply #21 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:54am I love our flag. OIts who we are really. We were created by Britian not by aboriginals, and we live under the southern cross. As for state governments, I live in NSW, the sooner theya re abolished the betetr.
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longweekend58

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #22 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:59am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.

I agree. It is a symboil of national identity and if you look at some of the flags around the world (eg france and germany) it is a great deal more attractive as well.

And any move to change the flag wil be repudiated by a genuine plebiscite of the people. There is no 'hanging on to england' as some suggests. That attitude disappeared in this country in the 1930s. It reflects our past as much as the southern cross reflects our present. It is in fact, a vastly better and more symbolic flag than most other countries.

Im not welded to a constitutional monarchy or the current flag, but before we change it and setup a very divisive issue in the community there needs to be a genuine pay-off in the end. And on both issues, there is none. the republic gives us absolutely nothing and changing the flag reduces our overseas visibility. 'Change for its own sake' is the policy of dreamers and wannabes.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #23 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:00am

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.

I can't believe people want to change the flag, without discussing real political change in Australia - for me, I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

The flag is a total side issue, much like how our head of state is chosen.

which level of government would you like to see removed? state govts?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #24 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:01am

nichy wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:50am:

If it's not broke, why fix it ?

Australia works extremely well. We've never been troubled by dictators, and never had our fundamental freedoms threatened. As for the Queen, she's where we prefer - far away, keeping out of politics.

And even durign the 1975 constitutional crisis the Queen refused to get involved saying the G-G had total authority. So getting rid of the Queen woudl change absolutely nothing.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #25 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:04am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 10:18am:

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

In the modern age I can't see any reason why a nation with a small population like ours needs three levels of government. We should get rid of state governments, they are little more than "service providers" anyway (some of them can't even do that properly).

It is ironic that 5 years ago when all the states were Labor, John Howard (and his cheer squads on discussion boards) were loudly proposing that the states should be abolished...........strangely the Liberals and their supporters have been very quiet about that recently. Grin

It must therefore be quite a frustration to you that Howard never said any such thing - nor liberal supporters. Liberal policy is more towards state rights than labor which has always been a centrist party wanting more power in canberra.

Those 'facts' can be a little pesky, huh?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #26 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:23am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.

I can't believe people want to change the flag, without discussing real political change in Australia - for me, I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

The flag is a total side issue, much like how our head of state is chosen.

which level of government would you like to see removed? state govts?

Yes, state governments - that would require a totally different approach to the constitution, but would reflect a singleness - being Australian, rather than being a Western Australian, or a Queenslander.

I firmly believe that the way the federation was formed suited the 19th century, but does not reflect todays' Australia. It suited a loosely connected country, not the Australia I know.

I was amazed to read that WA voted to secede in 1933, and rejoin the empire. Britain ignored them.

I also note people wanting to split NSW - thankfully rejected at referendum. Madness, in my opinion.

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longweekend58

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #27 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:44am

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:23am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Please delete wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 9:15am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

I think it's embarrassing that people get so wound up about the flag.

I can't believe people want to change the flag, without discussing real political change in Australia - for me, I would want to scrap one level of government, and a new constitution.

The flag is a total side issue, much like how our head of state is chosen.

which level of government would you like to see removed? state govts?

Yes, state governments - that would require a totally different approach to the constitution, but would reflect a singleness - being Australian, rather than being a Western Australian, or a Queenslander.

I firmly believe that the way the federation was formed suited the 19th century, but does not reflect todays' Australia. It suited a loosely connected country, not the Australia I know.

I was amazed to read that WA voted to secede in 1933, and rejoin the empire. Britain ignored them.

I also note people wanting to split NSW - thankfully rejected at referendum. Madness, in my opinion.

I would agree that state governments tend to be pretty useless. but they do serve one purpose and that is to insulate us from the totally sydney/melbourne-centric natur of the federal sphere. if state govts were disbanded, you can imagine there bing a senior cabinet position for minister for sydney, another for melbourne, an outer cabinet position for minster for BRisbane, a department head for adelaide and hobart and Perth and a junior clerk for darwin.

As much as i hate state govts, i can't see an alternative to them. the only possible genuine alternative is a handful of large local councils in each state but with some of the powers of the state govts now. Either way Im not willing to trust that canberra would treat each of the states and cities fairly or responsibly. History is on my side in this one.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #28 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 1:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

It must therefore be quite a frustration to you that Howard never said any such thing - nor liberal supporters. Liberal policy is more towards state rights than labor which has always been a centrist party wanting more power in canberra.

Those 'facts' can be a little pesky, huh?

LOL. What a very short memory you have longweekend.

Quote:

Australia would be better off without state governments, Prime Minister John Howard declared yesterday
"If we were starting Australia all over again, I wouldn't support having the existing state structure," he said. "I would actually support having a national government, and perhaps a series of regional governments having the power of, say, the Brisbane City Council

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Australia-doesnt-need-states-Howard/2005/03/24/1111525290189.html

What was that you were saying about Labor being a centrist government? LOL Grin

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longweekend58

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Re: Sack The Union Jack
Reply #29 - Jan 26^th, 2011 at 2:13pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 1:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

It must therefore be quite a frustration to you that Howard never said any such thing - nor liberal supporters. Liberal policy is more towards state rights than labor which has always been a centrist party wanting more power in canberra.

Those 'facts' can be a little pesky, huh?

LOL. What a very short memory you have longweekend.

Quote:

Australia would be better off without state governments, Prime Minister John Howard declared yesterday
"If we were starting Australia all over again, I wouldn't support having the existing state structure," he said. "I would actually support having a national government, and perhaps a series of regional governments having the power of, say, the Brisbane City Council

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Australia-doesnt-need-states-Howard/2005/03/24/1111525290189.html

What was that you were saying about Labor being a centrist government? LOL Grin

having a hindsight WISH is a little different than a policy. and interestingly enough it was over a spat with the state governments refusing to reduce YOUR taxes. Im so glad u think the state govts shoudl INCREASE taxes!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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