Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll Poll
Question: Do you want Sharia law in Australia?

Yes    
  1 (11.1%)
No    
  8 (88.9%)




Total votes: 9
« Created by: Bobby. on: Feb 15th, 2011 at 8:31pm »

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print
Sharia Australia (Read 13706 times)
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #30 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 10:09pm
 
Quote:
That's a perfect description of Isalm


Go read some history. Start with India and Ethiopia. Both of them were prosperous wealthy societies under Islam... under the short period of Western domination the people have starved to death with the most horrific famines ever seen in history. India was starving to death under British rule, whilst the British were exporting produce out of the famine stricken areas to send back to the motherland. Scores of millions of people died from the famines that the British brought to India.

Just because you're ignorant of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can only deny historical fact for so long.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36988
At my desk.
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #31 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 10:17pm
 
Quote:
Not unless he's already formed his own government and is enacting the foreign policy of a Caliphate, no it is not.


So in that situation it is true? - Quote:
He said that the invitation to Islam must be peaceful, but if not accepted, then there is violence. That is entirely Islamic.


Quote:
This is a not a Shari'ah court in any sense of the term, and it's certainly not a path to taking over a country, anyone who believes it is, would have to be delusional or so fuelled by hatred, they can't see the trees for the forest.


Regardless of whether it can help take over the country, it is still a stupid idea that denies people fundamental rights.

Quote:
As I've told you many times before fd, and neither should we be taking them on. They are exercising their rights within Australian law, if _you_ don't like it, then you're the one who has to change, because that's part of Australia's way of life.


Abu, this is how freedom of speech works. People can say what they want. If they say something stupid, you criticise them for it. This is not the same as letting Islamic lunatics preach hatred and violence and the 'mainstream' Islamic community using it as an excuse to sit idly by. To suggest so merely reinforces your failure to understand Australian values.

Quote:
If they break the law, then it's up to the authorities to deal with them (not us).


So you will make no attempt to prevent a fellow Muslim from carrying out acts of violence until they actually break the law, and even then you will do nothing because it is the responsibility of the police, not you? And you do this out of 'respect' for the Australian way of life? At the very least, your claims about rejecting western values in favour of Islam is starting to make sense - no personal responsibility, just blindly impose draconian laws from above and everything will work out fine.

Quote:
Your incessant claim that Muslims worldwide need to somehow take responsibility for every Muslim who has a differing view that you personally don't like is just bovine faeces fd.

Wake up to yourself mate.


Abu, the only ones making absurd claims about responsibility is you. You always seem to find a way for Islam and Muslims to avoid any responsibility or any need to raise a finger in stopping Islamic lunatics. Does not Islam itself teach you to correct your fellow Muslim? How does my view differ on the matter differ from that of Islam? Or does it only differ in that I am not a Muslim so I have no right to say the same thing?
Back to top
 

Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #32 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 10:34pm
 
Quote:
So in that situation it is true?


In certain contexts it could form part of the foreign policy of an Islamic Caliphate yes. Not in all situations. It is for those states who act with hostility towards the Caliphate.

Quote:
Regardless of whether it can help take over the country, it is still a stupid idea that denies people fundamental rights.


It doesn't deny anyone anything. It would be completely voluntary. Such a system exists in Britain now for Jews and Halakhic law, is it stupid? does it deny anyone their fundamental rights?

Not sure if you've noticed, but I am not an advocate of these token courts, but the way they're being spoken about here is completely irrational and hate-filled.

Quote:
Abu, this is how freedom of speech works. People can say what they want. If they say something stupid, you criticise them for it.


Well I personally don't see that I have any responsibility to criticise them for it.

If you can show me how I do, then I'm all ears...

Quote:
This is not the same as letting Islamic lunatics preach hatred and violence and the 'mainstream' Islamic community using it as an excuse to sit idly by.


If they are preaching hatred and violence, then surely they'll be charged right?

If Aussie-nationalists preach hatred and violence, are you under and obligation to seek them out and put a stop to them?

Sorry, but I thought that's what the law enforcement was there for? Or are you under some weird delusion that non-Muslims aren't obligated to do that, but Muslims are?

Muslims are supposed to form their own vigilante groups, and spend their time hunting down anyone who says something that fd doesn't agree with? Seriously, you're a whacko.

Quote:
To suggest so merely reinforces your failure to understand Australian values.


I think you're the one failing to understand them.

And then inventing some supposed extra obligation that Muslims only must fulfil.

Quote:
So you will make no attempt to prevent a fellow Muslim from carrying out acts of violence until they actually break the law, and even then you will do nothing because it is the responsibility of the police, not you?


This question operates under the delusion that all Muslims somehow know eachother, and mention to eachother their planning of mass acts of violence, in passing conversation.

Honestly, get a grip on yourself.

Besides the topic is about a political movement, not a violent movement, try to remain generally in context if possible.

Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 46843
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #33 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:00pm
 
Give me a break Abu.
We don't want Sharia law here in Australia.
You'd have to stone 99% of women to death because they had
sex before marriage.

Go and live in Iran.
They hanged 50 people in the last 3 weeks.
Back to top
 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Carl Sagan
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25450
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #34 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:03pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:00pm:
Give me a break Abu.
We don't want Sharia law here in Australia.
You'd have to stone 99% of women to death because they had
sex before marriage.

Go and live in Iran.
They hanged 50 people in the last 3 weeks.


yes the muslims want to change billions of years of evolution by killing people after they have done the old in-out !! Doesn't make sense does it Sad Isn't that what some female spiders do to male spiders Wink LOL
Back to top
 

Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #35 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:10pm
 
Quote:
We don't want Sharia law here in Australia.


Well that's your right. Some people do claim to want it, and you should therefore have a friendly debate with them about why you don't want it.

Quote:
You'd have to stone 99% of women to death because they had
sex before marriage.


Firstly fornication is not a capital offence.

Secondly, Islam is a complete system of life. It does not merely say to a society that is engrossed in hyper-sexualisation "You can't have sex!!!". Obviously people need to be educated.. at present we educate and encourage them to be promiscuous... that would need to change.

Quote:
Go and live in Iran.


As Iran is not an Islamic Caliphate, why would I want to live there?

Anymore than I'd want to live in Madagascar or Mongolia...
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 46843
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #36 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:13pm
 
Hi Abu,
I bet all those thugs in that movie would be hanged in Iran?
Back to top
 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Carl Sagan
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25450
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #37 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:17pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:10pm:
Quote:
We don't want Sharia law here in Australia.


Well that's your right. Some people do claim to want it, and you should therefore have a friendly debate with them about why you don't want it.



There is nothing to debate. Go and live in a country which offers sharia law and all your problems will be solved Wink
Back to top
 

Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 46843
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #38 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:17pm
 
Abu.
Quote:
Firstly fornication is not a capital offence.


They hang plenty of people for it in Iran - wake up.
Back to top
 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Carl Sagan
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25450
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #39 - Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:31pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 22nd, 2011 at 11:17pm:
Abu.
Quote:
Firstly fornication is not a capital offence.


They hang plenty of people for it in Iran - wake up.


yeh, just show a little bit of boob and your dead Sad
Back to top
 

Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars...Libbos are Liars
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 16495
A cat with a view
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #40 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 2:53am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 22nd, 2011 at 10:17pm:
.
Abu, this is how freedom of speech works. People can say what they want. If they say something stupid, you criticise them for it....




Exactly so.

A logic which does not apply, within ISLAM [see below].






Quote:
.
Quote:
Your incessant claim that Muslims worldwide need to somehow take responsibility for every Muslim who has a differing view that you personally don't like is just bovine faeces fd.

Wake up to yourself mate.


Abu, the only ones making absurd claims about responsibility is you. You always seem to find a way for Islam and Muslims to avoid any responsibility or any need to raise a finger in stopping Islamic lunatics. Does not Islam itself teach you to correct your fellow Muslim?



Yes, when a moslem is deemed to behaving, acting, un-ISLAMICLY.






Quote:
.
How does my view differ on the matter differ from that of Islam? Or does it only differ in that I am not a Muslim so I have no right to say the same thing?




Within ISLAM, moslems are encouraged to criticise all things which are deemed to be un-ISLAMIC.

But, within the influence of ISLAM, it is un-lawful to criticise what is deemed to be ISLAMIC.




The overriding 'guide' to the permissible actions of a moslem, is this;

All things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia.

...and vise-versa.


As is touched upon here;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


But no one, no moslem, and no non-moslem, must be permitted to question ISLAM [its doctrines].
Because, in the eyes of moslems, ISLAM is Allah's [already] perfect religion.
To critically question ISLAM [and its doctrines], is to 'insult' Allah.

And the punishment, for that crime, is death.



...
"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!" [London]

Of course, as the image above reveals, moslems are not bound by ISLAMIC law, where ISLAMIC law has no authority.
As the 'moslem impersonator' in the image, clearly demonstrates.
/sarc off




Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2011 at 3:17am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 36988
At my desk.
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #41 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 9:23am
 
Quote:
If Aussie-nationalists preach hatred and violence, are you under and obligation to seek them out and put a stop to them?


There is no shortage of Australians willing to condemn them and bring them to justice. We see it as a problem in our community that must be fixed, preferably before the police need to get involved. If they belong to the same group as us (eg religious, political, club etc) we take an even greater personal responsibility for it.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Of course, you oppose that freedom so you don't care what happens to it.

Quote:
Muslims are supposed to form their own vigilante groups, and spend their time hunting down anyone who says something that fd doesn't agree with?


Publicly condemming them would be a good start, and the appropriate response given that all this guy has done so far is make public statements. That is after all what the comment said that you were responding to:

Quote:
Islamic groups and leaders have frequently been criticised for failing to take on these groups, and for not being sufficiently vocal in rejecting their message.


Not sure why you always think of lynch mobs first.

If you refuse to make any effort to prevent lunatics becoming the public face of Islam, you can hardly complain when people start associating Islam with lunacy.

You missed this one:

Does not Islam itself teach you to correct your fellow Muslim? How does my view differ on the matter differ from that of Islam? Or does it only differ in that I am not a Muslim so I have no right to say the same thing?
Back to top
 

Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 46843
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #42 - Jan 23rd, 2011 at 11:54pm
 
Abu deleted my clockwork orange video -
it's gone without explanantion -
it was a good chance to see how Sharia law would apply to the crimes in it.
Maybe Abu doesn't want practical examples?
It kind of puts him on the spot.
Back to top
 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Carl Sagan
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #43 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 7:11am
 
Quote:
There is no shortage of Australians willing to condemn them and bring them to justice.


Fact is the vast majority of Aussies are completely ignorant and apathetic to their very existence. In fact I don't even think we have an anti-Nazi/Racism movement here. And in most countries where there is one, it's usually the socialists who are behind it, and they are certainly not the mainstream of society.

Btw, condemning something publicly is a load of garbage. It's nothing but an empty attempt to showboat. And people can quite easily publicly condemn something, that privately they support. In fact I'm pretty sure that most of those who do these very public condemnations actually are the biggest supporters of the things they condemn. Best cover isn't it?

Quote:
If they belong to the same group as us (eg religious, political, club etc) we take an even greater personal responsibility for it.


I don't know who you think you're fooling fd, but it ain't me. I've seen neo-Nazis openly expressing their views in various sectors of Aussie society, and receiving absolutely no rebuke or opposition for it whatsoever. Yes I'm sure there's some places that they might, but there's also plenty of places they don't.

Quote:
Publicly condemming them would be a good start


No it wouldn't. It'd just be a public facade. It tells us nothing concrete about someone's opinions whatsoever.

Quote:
and the appropriate response given that all this guy has done so far is make public statements. That is after all what the comment said that you were responding to:


But he hasn't broken any laws, or done anything wrong at all. He's merely expressed his political opinion.

Quote:
If you refuse to make any effort to prevent lunatics becoming the public face of Islam, you can hardly complain when people start associating Islam with lunacy.


Well, it's only in the very closed eyes of bigots that a small handful of people would be held to represent a community of hundreds of thousands. And such ignorant and hate-filled people, as we can see here already, hold such sentiments towards Muslims anyway, regardless of this guy's political pronouncements.

Quote:
Does not Islam itself teach you to correct your fellow Muslim?


Yes. And plenty of Muslims have mentioned to him their disagreeance with his methods.

Quote:
How does my view differ on the matter differ from that of Islam?


They're worlds apart. Islam teaches to correct with wisdom. You are talking about a public condemnation. I'm sure you can't see the difference.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Sharia Australia
Reply #44 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 7:13am
 
Quote:
Abu deleted my clockwork orange video -
it's gone without explanantion


Without explanation? You advised me to remove it.

Remember, you said:
Quote:
Hi Abu,
I bet all those thugs in that movie would be hanged in Iran?


So since I supposedly act in accordance with the regime in Tehran, and you said it'd result in hanging in Iran, obviously it needed to be deleted... right?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print