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Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way (Read 3518 times)
imcrookonit
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Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Jan 10th, 2011 at 5:09pm
 
Government delays staff car parking charges in eight hospitals after

Following pressure from hospital workers, the government has announced it will delay introducing staff car parking charges at eight of its metropolitan hospitals.

Staff at Armadale, Bentley, Graylands, Rockingham, Kaleeya, Swans and Shenton Park, who have not had to pay for parking before, have had the financial pain of parking costs delayed until the beginning of 2012. Staff at Osborne Park Hospital only have temporary reprieve. They will have to start paying parking fees on 11 April 2011.   Sad

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions

Unfortunately there is no change to the increases for staff wanting to park at Royal Perth, Sir Charles Gairdner, Fremantle, Princess Margaret and King Edward Memorial Hospitals.

Staff at each of these hospitals will see their parking fees rise every six months. By July 1 2014, staff at RPH, Fremantle and SCGH will be paying $7.50 daily for parking their car in the staff car park.   Sad

The joint health unions (LHMU, HSU, CFMEU, AMWU and CEPU) will be continuing their campaign against the introduction of and increases in the fees.

Carolyn Smith, assistant secretary of the LHMU, said: “We will still be following through with underpayment claims for any union member who has been charged the increased fee from 1 January 2011.

“We believe the increases are grossly unfair in the current economic climate. It is immoral for this government to be profiting from workers in this way.   Sad

“Many of these people are shift workers, meaning that public transport is out of the question for them. If they want to continue working at these hospitals, some of them will be forced to make sacrifices which is a ridiculous state of affairs in a state as rich as WA. Sad

“The delays are good news for our members at these eight hospitals. It gives us more time to persuade the government that the parking increases are an insult to people already trying to afford this government’s utility price hikes.”
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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #1 - Jan 10th, 2011 at 7:29pm
 
Why don`t you get a job & pay all their fees Sookonit.  Then you`ll have a purpose in life.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am
 
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #4 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:01am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.


So do you agree or not are management impacted by this grab?

Remember in hospitals almost everyone will be working till 2 am that's if they get off early.

Actually management probably will not be working in a hospital till 2 am at all ever.

They will still get their on site labelled parking valued at 10 X the value of staff parking for free more than likely.


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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:03am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.


So do you agree or not are management impacted by this grab?

Remember in hospitals almost everyone will be working till 2 am that's if they get off early.

Actually management probably will not be working in a hospital till 2 am at all ever.

They will still get their on site labelled parking valued at 10 X the value of staff parking for free more than likely.


Yet you dont have any proof if this do you DNA.  There was nothing to suggest parking was free during the day was there?

And I think you will find most change overs in hospitals happen around 10pm at night, not 2am.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:08am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.




Yes I agree, you have found yourself in an absurd position, you have my sympathy.

The corporate world is slowly but surely winning the battle in getting more and more people to work for free.

This practice should have been stamped out when it first raised its ugly head.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am
 
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.


So do you agree or not are management impacted by this grab?

Remember in hospitals almost everyone will be working till 2 am that's if they get off early.

Actually management probably will not be working in a hospital till 2 am at all ever.

They will still get their on site labelled parking valued at 10 X the value of staff parking for free more than likely.


Yet you dont have any proof if this do you DNA.  There was nothing to suggest parking was free during the day was there?

And I think you will find most change overs in hospitals happen around 10pm at night, not 2am.



Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am
 
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:08am
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



The old toughen up and cop the indirect pay cut while the more important people are exempt from the impact.

You have said Testicles - don't sleep - were all ok.

Then

Quote:
We are pricing ourselves out of Jobs


Well there is a new one we are pricing our selves out of employment by not wanting to take pay cuts. How damn inconsiderate we are.

OR  

Dummy, side step, accelerate - out of here.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:13am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:08am:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



The old toughen up and cop the indirect pay cut while the more important people are exempt from the impact.

You have said Testicles - don't sleep - were all ok.

Then

Quote:
We are pricing ourselves out of Jobs


Well there is a new one we are pricing our selves out of employment by not wanting to take pay cuts. How damn inconsiderate we are.

OR  

Dummy, side step, accelerate - out of here.



Pay cuts. Nope can't see where aussie said that. But of course I should know that you can see things that aren't written.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:17am
 
They`re obsessed with what everyone else is doing & getting. Perfectly stupid because it`s so easy for anyone with talent to advance themselves in this country.  Even the useless drones can earn a living & do well here.  Just the hyper whimps who do all the whining..
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #12 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:49am
 
whatsforme wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:13am:
Pay cuts. Nope can't see where aussie said that. But of course I should know that you can see things that aren't written.



Aussie
Quote:
we’re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs.


Aussie is saying we are pricing ourselves out of jobs.

The Topic is about effectivly reducing wages.

The inference that Aussie makes is that we should be happy to effectivly reduce income in order to be more compedative , either that or he is off topic and on about something else possibly the need to grow testicles.

I hope to not run into too many nurses with newly grown testicles - thanks all the same.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #13 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:49am:
The Topic is about effectivly reducing wages.



Ummm, should we not be trying to reduce average wages??

That's essentially what I have been working on for the last - well since the start of Dec.

The thing is when you have plateaued revenue (which my area has) and we have a projected growth in shareholder return needed - then the difference has to come in either COGS or Op expenses right?

What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.

Well that's my powerpoint anyway and the big dogs in Los Angeles liked it.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #14 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:02am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:49am:
whatsforme wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:13am:
Pay cuts. Nope can't see where aussie said that. But of course I should know that you can see things that aren't written.



Aussie
Quote:
we’re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs.


Aussie is saying we are pricing ourselves out of jobs.

The Topic is about effectivly reducing wages.



We have priced ourselves out of jobs.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #15 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:11am
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #16 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.


So do you agree or not are management impacted by this grab?

Remember in hospitals almost everyone will be working till 2 am that's if they get off early.

Actually management probably will not be working in a hospital till 2 am at all ever.

They will still get their on site labelled parking valued at 10 X the value of staff parking for free more than likely.


Yet you dont have any proof if this do you DNA.  There was nothing to suggest parking was free during the day was there?

And I think you will find most change overs in hospitals happen around 10pm at night, not 2am.



Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #17 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am
 
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #18 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:25am
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am:
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.



So charging low paid Nurses a heap to park at work thus reducing their effective income will have a benificial impact on the international market?

I think not.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #19 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #20 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am
 
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #21 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:44am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:25am:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am:
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.



So charging low paid Nurses
a heap to park at work thus reducing their effective income will have a benificial impact on the international market?

I think not.



There is no such thing as a low paid nurse; a complete fallacy!!

All queensland hospital staff pay for parking; suck it up and live with it.

VMO's and Director's have parking provided but is usually included in their package (along with the car) and more often than not subject to FBT.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #22 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #23 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:30pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.



No that's fundamentally wrong.
This isn't toe cutting - its what is known as 'effective headcount management' in regard to keeping a lid on operating costs to increase the bottom line.

It's about streamlining goals, getting people to align their goals with the corporate message, streamlining headcount to be more effective and leaner etc

You're not necessarily cutting salaries, you're cutting the headcount and overall salary costs and making it more effective.
This is done by any number of measures - merging roles, re-aligning supply chains, off-shoring etc.

You're too quick to write off good effective techniques in a cynical manner.

Everybody wants the same thing in a company, success, profitability and to make a difference in your industry.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #24 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:45pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........



Isn't it the government who ultimatly run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimatly the employer in this relationship?
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #25 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:45pm:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........



Isn't it the government who ultimatly run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimatly the employer in this relationship?


I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government.

Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #26 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:59pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:30pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.



No that's fundamentally wrong.
This isn't toe cutting - its what is known as 'effective headcount management' in regard to keeping a lid on operating costs to increase the bottom line.

It's about streamlining goals, getting people to align their goals with the corporate message, streamlining headcount to be more effective and leaner etc

You're not necessarily cutting salaries, you're cutting the headcount and overall salary costs and making it more effective.
This is done by any number of measures - merging roles, re-aligning supply chains, off-shoring etc.

You're too quick to write off good effective techniques in a cynical manner.

Everybody wants the same thing in a company, success, profitability and to make a difference in your industry.



What you say here is fundermentally different to what you had originally posted.

Still looking to reduce numbers very often ends badly irrespective of your intentions. Never seen it work yet.

When you look at most companies which have been downsized you find that they have more people not less, seen it many times.

The new areas expand when they find out what is really required, removed functions are re identified as being necessary only the new team do not have the experience to do the job well.

My Department downsized 12 months ago, the 2 redundant employees were barley out the door when we employed another 5 with an important function still not covered and being outsourced at a considerable cost.

Overall My division went to about 90 people 15 months ago we are now close to 200. We downsized because the financial crisis which had no impact on us gave management a dishonest excuse to do so even though we were at the time opening new products and expanding.

I lost good skilled workers from my department who were basically replaced by incompetant rubbish.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #27 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:09pm
 
DNA
Quote:
Isn't it the government who ultimately run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimately the employer in this relationship?


Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm:
I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government..


I think you understood what I meant but I never called anyone names.


Quote:
Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.


I would think that if the government want to improperly get involved at this nuts and bolts level then they have to be considered as part of the management group.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #28 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:34pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:49am:
The Topic is about effectivly reducing wages.



Ummm, should we not be trying to reduce average wages??

That's essentially what I have been working on for the last - well since the start of Dec.

The thing is when you have plateaued revenue (which my area has) and we have a projected growth in shareholder return needed - then the difference has to come in either COGS or Op expenses right?

What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.

Well that's my powerpoint anyway and the big dogs in Los Angeles liked it.


Umm ,that would only work (reducing average wages) if we also reduce the cost of living by the same, or a greater amount..
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #29 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:11pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:09pm:
DNA
Quote:
Isn't it the government who ultimately run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimately the employer in this relationship?


Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm:
I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government..


I think you understood what I meant but I never called anyone names.


Quote:
Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.


I would think that if the government want to improperly get involved at this nuts and bolts level then they have to be considered as part of the management group.


But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.

We have a Board of Directors, and if they tell us prices have to go up they do.  They have ultimate control.  Hospital management are paid to undertake the directives as set to them by the authorities above them.

You are only swinging it around after I asked you about who's parking space is free knowing full well there isnt a pollies park.

Take it up with the government, and leave management out of this one for a change.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #30 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:16pm
 
Quote:
But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.


I said that I bet that this change does not impact management - You have been unwilling to disagree

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #31 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:21pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:16pm:
Quote:
But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.


I said that I bet that this change does not impact management - You have been unwilling to disagree


As I said, there is nothing to suggest no one person is exempt from it, as the decision is out of managements hands.

Dont you think if the policy handed down by the Government excluded management, the Unions would have been onto it in a flash.

Im not sure what the big deal is, paid parking has been at the RCH in Melbourne for over 20 years.

However, if they are going to take money for car parking, all that money should be put back into ensuring that the car park is safe and secure and well maintained.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #32 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:25pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:21pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:16pm:
Quote:
But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.


I said that I bet that this change does not impact management - You have been unwilling to disagree


As I said, there is nothing to suggest no one person is exempt from it, as the decision is out of managements hands.

Dont you think if the policy handed down by the Government excluded management, the Unions would have been onto it in a flash.

Im not sure what the big deal is, paid parking has been at the RCH in Melbourne for over 20 years.

However, if they are going to take money for car parking, all that money should be put back into ensuring that the car park is safe and secure and well maintained.



Will you be understanding and supportive of the push for compensatory wage increases accross the industry.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #33 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:33pm
 
Quote:
As I said, there is nothing to suggest no one person is exempt from it, as the decision is out of managements hands.

Dont you think if the policy handed down by the Government excluded management, the Unions would have been onto it in a flash.


Well when you consider that in most of the instances that I am aware of (admittedly not inclusive of WA) the higher ranking staff have reserved parking seperate from the staff parking areas and it would be surprising to find these areas included, though no reason they could not be.

Looks to me not like management were excluded but more like they probably were not included in most cases - dependent of the set up for the site.

Clearly an area which the government should stay out of, It is not their role to be dealing with the nuts and bolts aspects of Hospital management including staff facilities.



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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #34 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:25pm:
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:21pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:16pm:
Quote:
But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.


I said that I bet that this change does not impact management - You have been unwilling to disagree


As I said, there is nothing to suggest no one person is exempt from it, as the decision is out of managements hands.

Dont you think if the policy handed down by the Government excluded management, the Unions would have been onto it in a flash.

Im not sure what the big deal is, paid parking has been at the RCH in Melbourne for over 20 years.

However, if they are going to take money for car parking, all that money should be put back into ensuring that the car park is safe and secure and well maintained.



Will you be understanding and supportive of the push for compensatory wage increases accross the industry.


I have never been anything less for the people that work in our hospital systems.

However, on the one example, if the costs were so secruity staff were to be newly employed to patrol those car parks, then there would need to be some give and take, since they will benefit directly.  Im not saying this is the case, Im just saying "if" it was the case.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #35 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 9:42am
 
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
However, on the one example, if the costs were so secruity staff were to be newly employed to patrol those car parks, then there would need to be some give and take, since they will benefit directly.  Im not saying this is the case, Im just saying "if" it was the case.



The change is a bean counter responce to the return on theoretical land value.

They want to increase their return so they are going to screw hospital workers.

The only exemptions seem to be government cars and government fleet cars.

GVS and SOVS schemes are  Both available to senior Hospital managment and for about the same price (a little less) as staff are being asked to pay for parking alone the manager has free parking with the car thrown in and in all probability the cost is covered by the Hospital.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #36 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 11:16am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 14th, 2011 at 9:42am:
Verge wrote on Jan 12th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
However, on the one example, if the costs were so secruity staff were to be newly employed to patrol those car parks, then there would need to be some give and take, since they will benefit directly.  Im not saying this is the case, Im just saying "if" it was the case.



The change is a bean counter responce to the return on theoretical land value.

They want to increase their return so they are going to screw hospital workers.

The only exemptions seem to be government cars and government fleet cars.

GVS and SOVS schemes are  Both available to senior Hospital managment and for about the same price (a little less) as staff are being asked to pay for parking alone the manager has free parking with the car thrown in and in all probability the cost is covered by the Hospital.



Hospital vehicles are not government issued.  They are either leased, or purchased by the Hospitals and then back charged via the employee benefits expense.  Its a little complicated, but ultimately they are not government owned vehicles.

As for the bean counter, I think the reason is a little different.  I reckon it was more a case of someone sat back, seen what the total charges were against car parks for maintenance, secruity etc, prolly has to pay for their own parking in Perth and as a result put the recomendation in as a result.

Car parks are a pretty expensive thing to build, and although maintenance isnt that much, they still cost money.  Its not just staff getting charged either, its anyone who uses them.

I can see their point about carparking.  There doesnt seem to be any such thing as free car parking anymore, so why should any place be exempt. 
I wouldnt mind however if staff had theirs subsidised, and staff can salary sacrifice it because of the exemptions for health care workers they would pay no FBT.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #37 - Jan 14th, 2011 at 7:53pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 14th, 2011 at 11:16am:
Hospital vehicles are not government issued.  They are either leased, or purchased by the Hospitals and then back charged via the employee benefits expense.  Its a little complicated, but ultimately they are not government owned vehicles.




'The Department of Health Motor Vehicle Fleet Policy"

I actually looked it up before I posted the comment - they do in fact have access to the government schemes.

http://www.health.wa.gov.au/circularsnew/attachments/428.pdf

Quote:
Car parks are a pretty expensive thing to build, and although maintenance isnt that much, they still cost money.  Its not just staff getting charged either, its anyone who uses them.


The general public have been charged for a long time - Employee parking has been different, they are not talking about building car parks, improving them or providing staff - just charging more for the one's already in place.

Quote:
I wouldnt mind however if staff had theirs subsidised, and staff can salary sacrifice it because of the exemptions for health care workers they would pay no FBT.


I do not really know but I doubt that is the case
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