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Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way (Read 3520 times)
vegitamite
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #15 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:11am
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #16 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:51am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 7:47am:
I bet management are not included in this greedy grab.



There's that wide-sweeping anti-management brush again.

I worked til 2am last night finalizing our 2011 figures for how much extra per hour beyond 5pm? $0.
See if a floor worker would stay up til that time for no extra dollars per hour.

Never in a million years.


So do you agree or not are management impacted by this grab?

Remember in hospitals almost everyone will be working till 2 am that's if they get off early.

Actually management probably will not be working in a hospital till 2 am at all ever.

They will still get their on site labelled parking valued at 10 X the value of staff parking for free more than likely.


Yet you dont have any proof if this do you DNA.  There was nothing to suggest parking was free during the day was there?

And I think you will find most change overs in hospitals happen around 10pm at night, not 2am.



Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.
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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #17 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am
 
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.
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Dnarever
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #18 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:25am
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am:
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.



So charging low paid Nurses a heap to park at work thus reducing their effective income will have a benificial impact on the international market?

I think not.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #19 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #20 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am
 
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

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qikvtec
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #21 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:44am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:25am:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:25am:
Quote:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:49am:
Why don`t the sookonits of this world grow a pair of balls & wake up to how well off we all are, so well off in fact that we`re effectively pricing ourselves out of our jobs. Stop being so pathetic.



A hahhaaa Grin Grin Grin. Excusie.

Hey AF2ramble, I know , why don't you tell the electricity company the phone company , all these companies that are cutting workers and ALREADY getting cheap labour overseas, in 3 world countries, TO STOP PUTTING UP THE PRICE OF THEIR SERVICES then, ?



ps,  and what are you going to tell those ones that Howard told that they never had it so good . Can I  hear Abbott Now say 'take a wage cut as  you don't deserve it you have had it  to good'....



Ask an adult about it vegie, we are pricing ourselves out of the international market, and worker green is the major contributing influence. Perhaps someone will publisk a booklet in comic form one day, explaining it for you. Until then,,,, we`ll just have to wait for you to catch up.



So charging low paid Nurses
a heap to park at work thus reducing their effective income will have a benificial impact on the international market?

I think not.



There is no such thing as a low paid nurse; a complete fallacy!!

All queensland hospital staff pay for parking; suck it up and live with it.

VMO's and Director's have parking provided but is usually included in their package (along with the car) and more often than not subject to FBT.
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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #22 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #23 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:30pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.



No that's fundamentally wrong.
This isn't toe cutting - its what is known as 'effective headcount management' in regard to keeping a lid on operating costs to increase the bottom line.

It's about streamlining goals, getting people to align their goals with the corporate message, streamlining headcount to be more effective and leaner etc

You're not necessarily cutting salaries, you're cutting the headcount and overall salary costs and making it more effective.
This is done by any number of measures - merging roles, re-aligning supply chains, off-shoring etc.

You're too quick to write off good effective techniques in a cynical manner.

Everybody wants the same thing in a company, success, profitability and to make a difference in your industry.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #24 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:45pm
 
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........



Isn't it the government who ultimatly run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimatly the employer in this relationship?
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #25 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:45pm:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:43am:
Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 8:18am:
Comprehension is not that difficult:

"I Bet"

This indicates a wager which is infering that I believe the odds are very good that my speculation is correct.

Are you saying that you believe I am wrong?

Would you be willing to take that bet?

We have all seen the on site parking adjacent to admin and other buildings with parking spaces individuallt signed which have an obvious higher value than the staff parking areas.

There is no mention in the story as you say so are these spaces included or excluded from the system?



Its irrelevant if they are or arent.  This isnt a mangement versus workers issue.  It isnt management who are creating these policies and implementing them.

Not ever staff issue is about management, and how much you think they are out to screw people.


So now we have major decisions which will have a substantial impact on effective employee wages and it is just magically happening and it has nothing to do with management even though it would seem we agree that they are probably exempted from the same policy.

Management obviously is not always local if you are saying it is not a management decision obviously then management would be free to quash the change and tell the interlopers about managements right to manage.

From the orginal article

The Barnett government had originally wanted to introduce and drastically increase car parking fees for hospital staff from 1 January 2011. But after more than 3500 letters were sent to health bosses by hospital workers as part of a joint union campaign, the government has delayed the introduction of the fees for some hospital workers.Health department collects petitions"

It has nothing to do with hospitals management teams, nor does it include or exempt hospital management from the new fees.

This is a government issue.

You know what they say about people who assume things........



Isn't it the government who ultimatly run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimatly the employer in this relationship?


I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government.

Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.
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Dnarever
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #26 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:59pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 12:30pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 11:33am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.



No you do not.

Driving down headcount and wages will give you less productivity with an unhappy workforce.

The longer term result is that you lose - people do not forget treatment like this.

That is part of the reason that toe cutter type CEO's last about 6 or 7 years - After they have gutted the company of people skills and loyalty using your type of practice for short term gain they get out before their flawed business model collapses.



No that's fundamentally wrong.
This isn't toe cutting - its what is known as 'effective headcount management' in regard to keeping a lid on operating costs to increase the bottom line.

It's about streamlining goals, getting people to align their goals with the corporate message, streamlining headcount to be more effective and leaner etc

You're not necessarily cutting salaries, you're cutting the headcount and overall salary costs and making it more effective.
This is done by any number of measures - merging roles, re-aligning supply chains, off-shoring etc.

You're too quick to write off good effective techniques in a cynical manner.

Everybody wants the same thing in a company, success, profitability and to make a difference in your industry.



What you say here is fundermentally different to what you had originally posted.

Still looking to reduce numbers very often ends badly irrespective of your intentions. Never seen it work yet.

When you look at most companies which have been downsized you find that they have more people not less, seen it many times.

The new areas expand when they find out what is really required, removed functions are re identified as being necessary only the new team do not have the experience to do the job well.

My Department downsized 12 months ago, the 2 redundant employees were barley out the door when we employed another 5 with an important function still not covered and being outsourced at a considerable cost.

Overall My division went to about 90 people 15 months ago we are now close to 200. We downsized because the financial crisis which had no impact on us gave management a dishonest excuse to do so even though we were at the time opening new products and expanding.

I lost good skilled workers from my department who were basically replaced by incompetant rubbish.

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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #27 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:09pm
 
DNA
Quote:
Isn't it the government who ultimately run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimately the employer in this relationship?


Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm:
I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government..


I think you understood what I meant but I never called anyone names.


Quote:
Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.


I would think that if the government want to improperly get involved at this nuts and bolts level then they have to be considered as part of the management group.
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #28 - Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:34pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:52am:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 9:49am:
The Topic is about effectivly reducing wages.



Ummm, should we not be trying to reduce average wages??

That's essentially what I have been working on for the last - well since the start of Dec.

The thing is when you have plateaued revenue (which my area has) and we have a projected growth in shareholder return needed - then the difference has to come in either COGS or Op expenses right?

What's the biggest driver in Op Expenses?

Heacount and salaries and wages.

Effectively, if you can drive those downwards, your operation margin improves, you become a more efficient company and you generate greater intrinsic value for shareholders.

Well that's my powerpoint anyway and the big dogs in Los Angeles liked it.


Umm ,that would only work (reducing average wages) if we also reduce the cost of living by the same, or a greater amount..
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Re: Immoral To Profit From Workers This Way
Reply #29 - Jan 12th, 2011 at 12:11pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 2:09pm:
DNA
Quote:
Isn't it the government who ultimately run and manage hospitals, are they not ultimately the employer in this relationship?


Verge wrote on Jan 11th, 2011 at 1:53pm:
I didnt realise Colin Barnett had a parking space outside the local orhospital, or that the local member had one which you are betting is spared from the payments?

So who is the bastard with the free parking space, hospital management or the government..


I think you understood what I meant but I never called anyone names.


Quote:
Also, there is a difference between managing a hospital system, and managing a hospital.


I would think that if the government want to improperly get involved at this nuts and bolts level then they have to be considered as part of the management group.


But the government is the government.  You lumped the hospitals management in with the bueaurcrats in order to rubbish management once again.

We have a Board of Directors, and if they tell us prices have to go up they do.  They have ultimate control.  Hospital management are paid to undertake the directives as set to them by the authorities above them.

You are only swinging it around after I asked you about who's parking space is free knowing full well there isnt a pollies park.

Take it up with the government, and leave management out of this one for a change.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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