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Legalisation of pot? (Read 119987 times)
bobbythefap1
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #480 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 3:58pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:56am:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 9:49am:
Muso thinks its safe to take dangerous chemicals when the corporation selling it to you says its ok.
And bad to take harmless substances because the people who cant tax it told him its bad...


No chemical is safe. We don't get prescriptions from corporations, we get them from medically trained doctors. Of the prescriptions I've picked up in the last year, over 90% were available as generics, so it's not even the big pharmaceutical companies that benefit. In my experience, (good) doctors will prescribe only when necessary.

I'll rest my case on the (lack of) logic of the replies you guys have given so far. I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything, but that's not why I replied anyway.  Cool 

The topic was in need of balance. The views of medical professionals and specialists in pharmacology are certainly key to this issue. In denying that basic fact, you speak volumes about your impartiality..... and credibility.

On the issue of health, who are you going to consult with? Plumbers? Taxi Drivers? Drug addicts?  or trained medical professionals?
Exactly so what your trying argue is pointless. There are hundreds of dangerous chemicals all mixed up into a cocktail in most prescription drugs; weed is THC and nothing more if grown purely.
You do realise that a lot of doctors actually get bonuses from pharmaceutical companies depending on how much they can prescribe. Why else would they be prescribing antibiotics to every tiny problem and diagnose huge portions of the population as having a mental illness.
I’m not 100% but I think a lot of people don’t go generic; the government just started that advertising campaign telling people that generics are ok and such. But the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest industries in the world, they make huge profit.
I know there are still good doctors but its a growing trend to see dangerous drugs thrown at patient nonstop..
I don’t see what lack of logic you are talking about, my argument makes perfect sense and its well justified.
The views of medical professionals are clearly not balanced or free of bias. Weed does not kill people, is less dangerous than most legal drugs and there is no reason for it to be singled out like it is.
If there was justification in making weed illegal then 90% of pharmaceuticals, alcohol, smoking, fast food etc would all be illegal.
What is not credible about my argument?
Marijuana is used as a medical treatment by medical professionals every day around the world. It has mutable medical uses and is less dangerous than most legal drugs.
There would be thousands of medical professionals who agree with me.
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muso
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #481 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:18pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Weed does not kill people...l.


There have been plenty of people killed in car accidents as a result of driving (for example) under the influence of cannabis. It slows the reaction time and makes you less likely to react to hazards apart from anything else.

Apart from indirect deaths, cannabis use during pregnancy increases the risk of premature delivery and low birth rates. That in itself has led to more infant deaths, because these are factors that influence infant mortality.

Quote:
The views of medical professionals are clearly not balanced or free of bias.


The views of dentists are clearly not totally balanced or free of bias either, but if you have a tooth problem, I think you'd prefer to go to somebody who was trained as a dentist rather than a carpenter.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:35pm by muso »  

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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #482 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:24pm
 
Lots of innocent people die on the roads, so

lets BAN CARS.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #483 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:31pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:18pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Weed does not kill people...l.


There have been plenty of people killed in car accidents as a result of driving (for example) under the influence of cannabis. It slows the reaction time and makes you less likely to react to hazards apart from anything else.

Quote:
The views of medical professionals are clearly not balanced or free of bias.


The views of dentists are clearly not totally balanced or free of bias either, but if you have a tooth problem, I think you'd prefer to go to somebody who was trained as a dentist rather than a carpenter.

HAHAHA just ignore my whole argument because you aint got one

Your car accident argument is not valid. You cant restrict someones freedoms for a crime they havent commited.. Plenty of people take prescription medicine and die driving because it slows their reaction time but your telling me thats ok because it says 'dont operate heavy machinery' on the bottle right?

There would be millions of medical professionals around the world who agree with me.
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bobbythefap1
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #484 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:40pm
 
Emma wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:24pm:
Lots of innocent people die on the roads, so

lets BAN CARS.

I think we should make being a medical professional illegal seeing as how many people die from incorrect diagnoses, mistreatment, fatal operations etc..
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muso
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #485 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:01pm
 
Emma wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:24pm:
Lots of innocent people die on the roads, so

lets BAN CARS.



Jalane,  You have a totally different approach to nuclear power. It has very substantial benefits, not the least of which is the fact that it doesn't have a significant carbon footprint.

- and yet anti-nuclear activists apply very dodgy statistics to argue that a very small proportion of a very large and variable number of cancer deaths are attributable to nuclear accidents.

Exposure to radiation can cause cancer.  The use of cosmetics and hair dyes also cause cancer, and to a far greater extent. Not only that, but you don't have to use dodgy statistics to prove it.

So what are you going to do? ban hair colours and cosmetics? Ban antiperspirants?

As you can see, your attitude is not based on absolute risk, and it's skewed according to your own preconceptions. 

- but of course we all have our own perception on what is acceptable risk, which doesn't necessarily reflect actual risk. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:18pm by muso »  

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muso
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #486 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:11pm
 
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:31pm:
muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:18pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Weed does not kill people...l.


There have been plenty of people killed in car accidents as a result of driving (for example) under the influence of cannabis. It slows the reaction time and makes you less likely to react to hazards apart from anything else.

Quote:
The views of medical professionals are clearly not balanced or free of bias.


The views of dentists are clearly not totally balanced or free of bias either, but if you have a tooth problem, I think you'd prefer to go to somebody who was trained as a dentist rather than a carpenter.

HAHAHA just ignore my whole argument because you aint got one

Your car accident argument is not valid. You cant restrict someones freedoms for a crime they havent commited.. Plenty of people take prescription medicine and die driving because it slows their reaction time but your telling me thats ok because it says 'dont operate heavy machinery' on the bottle right?

There would be millions of medical professionals around the world who agree with me.


No I'm not. I agree that benzodiazepene is a greater risk (about 10 times the direct mortality rate and and about 20 times when it comes to indirect mortality such as vehicle accidents, especially when it's not taken under medical supervision, but of course if you look into it, overdosing on sleeping pills is a popular means of suicide.   

Do I think it's ok for people to die as a result of abuse of one particular drug as opposed to another? No.

Your argument is the same one used by the Muslims on this forum (not that I have anything against Muslims) The argument is made against Muslim terrorists, and instead of  agreeing that it's bad, they talk about Christians committing offenses too - as if that somehow makes it ok.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and they certainly don't make a good argument either.

Quote:
I think we should make being a medical professional illegal seeing as how many people die from incorrect diagnoses, mistreatment, fatal operations etc..


I hope that's a joke. If you are honestly suggesting that ceasing medical treatment will reduce the death rate, then I'd have to ask what you've been smoking.   Grin
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:22pm by muso »  

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bobbythefap1
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #487 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:25pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:11pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:31pm:
muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:18pm:
bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 3:58pm:
Weed does not kill people...l.


There have been plenty of people killed in car accidents as a result of driving (for example) under the influence of cannabis. It slows the reaction time and makes you less likely to react to hazards apart from anything else.

Quote:
The views of medical professionals are clearly not balanced or free of bias.


The views of dentists are clearly not totally balanced or free of bias either, but if you have a tooth problem, I think you'd prefer to go to somebody who was trained as a dentist rather than a carpenter.

HAHAHA just ignore my whole argument because you aint got one

Your car accident argument is not valid. You cant restrict someones freedoms for a crime they havent commited.. Plenty of people take prescription medicine and die driving because it slows their reaction time but your telling me thats ok because it says 'dont operate heavy machinery' on the bottle right?

There would be millions of medical professionals around the world who agree with me.


No I'm not. I agree that benzodiazepene is a greater risk (about 10 times the direct mortality rate and and about 20 times when it comes to indirect mortality such as vehicle accidents, especially when it's not taken under medical supervision, but of course if you look into it, overdosing on sleeping pills is a popular means of suicide.   

Do I think it's ok for people to die as a result of abuse of one particular drug as opposed to another? No.

Your argument is the same one used by the Muslims on this forum (not that I have anything against Muslims) The argument is made against Muslim terrorists, and instead of  agreeing that it's bad, they talk about Christians committing offenses too - as if that somehow makes it ok.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and they certainly don't make a good argument either.

Quote:
I think we should make being a medical professional illegal seeing as how many people die from incorrect diagnoses, mistreatment, fatal operations etc..


If you are honestly suggesting that ceasing medical treatment will reduce the death rate, then I have to ask what you've been smoking.   Grin

Then if you have no quarrel with those drugs being legal what is wrong with pot? If you agree they are more dangerous then why do you worry so much about pot? Pot can come with an instruction manual and warning label too if that’s all it takes.
I don’t really know the context of him saying that but I can understand if it was in the typical ‘ban Muslims’ argument. As I have said before I do not claim weed to be perfect (although its pretty darn close) but if all these other drugs are legal then there is simply no reason to ban marijuana.
Obviously I don’t actually want to ban medical professionals but that is where your logic goes. There’s no limit to the madness when we let opinion become law. At the end of the day 99% of the world could be against weed and that doesn’t give them any right to stop the 1% from using it because it should be your right to choose what you do to your body. Just as you would not want someone to ban you from drinking coffee or whatever floats your boat.
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muso
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #488 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:41pm
 
For what it's worth, I agree that Marijuana is on the lower scale when it comes to harm, and I certainly do have quarrels with over prescription of benzodiazepine.  If anything, I think that drug is a far bigger problem than cannabis, and it should be controlled much tighter. Of course, as I said before, it's a drug of opportunity for suicides, so the stats are going to be weighted against it.   

If tobacco had never been legal and the process of making it legal was just starting today, it wouldn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell of getting through the TGA, but it has been legal for hundreds of years. It's a legacy issue. So with marijuana it's a legacy issue of the opposite kind. If it is to be made legal, it has to do so on its own merits, not on the basis of comparison with the legal status of tobacco or alcohol or some other drug.

Personally I'd like to see smokers pay a higher Medicare levy. It's only fair.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #489 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 8:19pm
 
Quote:
Personally I'd like to see smokers pay a higher Medicare levy. It's only fair.
-muso

Don't you think the 300% tax that smokers pay covers them already?
If you consider that 15 of every 20 they spend is going to the government, wouldn't that be more than covering the costs they add to the health budget?
Keep in mind that they should die younger, so be lesslikely to be a long term drain on social security as well. Wink
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #490 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:45pm
 
Decriminalising pot without decriminalising the other drugs is absolutely pointless.

Quote:
If tobacco had never been legal and the process of making it legal was just starting today,


And neither would cars for private use, the motorcycle, the jet ski, the ladder, alcohol, nail guns, angle grinders, sashimi, home swimming pools, candles etc etc etc
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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #491 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 10:09pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:01pm:
Emma wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 4:24pm:
Lots of innocent people die on the roads, so

lets BAN CARS.



Jalane,  You have a totally different approach to nuclear power. It has very substantial benefits, not the least of which is the fact that it doesn't have a significant carbon footprint.

- and yet anti-nuclear activists apply very dodgy statistics to argue that a very small proportion of a very large and variable number of cancer deaths are attributable to nuclear accidents.

Exposure to radiation can cause cancer.  The use of cosmetics and hair dyes also cause cancer, and to a far greater extent. Not only that, but you don't have to use dodgy statistics to prove it.

So what are you going to do? ban hair colours and cosmetics? Ban antiperspirants?

As you can see, your attitude is not based on absolute risk, and it's skewed according to your own preconceptions. 

- but of course we all have our own perception on what is acceptable risk, which doesn't necessarily reflect actual risk. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency.



Ahem ..... Grin Smiley Smiley Wink  I was KIDDING!!

[quote author=31343B38023A32382E0232335D0 link=1294031311/490#490 date=1328010300]Decriminalising pot without decriminalising the other drugs is absolutely pointless. [quote]

Not at all....   altho I agree the same principles apply.

AT LEAST its a start. Think of all the freed-up police assets,  and Court processes.etc etc etc
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #492 - Feb 1st, 2012 at 1:55am
 
Life_goes_on wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 9:45pm:
Decriminalising pot without decriminalising the other drugs is absolutely pointless.



That makes absolutely no sense. Tobacco and Alcohol are considered drugs and they're legal as opposed to the rest. How is Marijuana not eligible for the exact same exception to the rule?
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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #493 - Feb 1st, 2012 at 2:19am
 
I hope Muso that you caught 'The Drum' on ABC1.31-01-2012.

They were discussing the recent publishing of the results of an international think-tank on Pot and Prohibition. Can't tell you the name, but its been raised in many recent news programs.
The verdict is in,  once again.
Maybe this time pollies will listen. Cool Smiley
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muso
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #494 - Feb 1st, 2012 at 2:15pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 8:19pm:
Quote:
Personally I'd like to see smokers pay a higher Medicare levy. It's only fair.
-muso

Don't you think the 300% tax that smokers pay covers them already?
If you consider that 15 of every 20 they spend is going to the government, wouldn't that be more than covering the costs they add to the health budget?
Keep in mind that they should die younger, so be lesslikely to be a long term drain on social security as well. Wink



You've been listening to the Czech  Prime Minister. By the way, the Czech Republic is also a safe haven for bong heads. You can smoke anything with impunity over there.
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