Australian Politics Forum - Legalisation of pot?

Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Legalisation of pot? Reply #465 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 8:46pm Hope you all who are interested see the SBS show I am watching now - about the 'evil weed'!! So far - very interesting - cheers
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GoddyofOz Gold Member Offline Vote 1 for Sex, cause you're gay if you don't Posts: 2397	Re: Legalisation of pot? Reply #466 - Dec 10^th, 2011 at 7:01pm I've said it a million times, but I'll gladly say it again; The ONLY reason pot is still illegal is because the Government cannot find a way to tax it. That is the ONLY reason. Even the far right can't see past dollar signs. I would go as far as to call it the rape of personal liberty.
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Emma

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #467 - Dec 11^th, 2011 at 10:24pm

GoddyofOz wrote on Dec 10^th, 2011 at 7:01pm:

I've said it a million times, but I'll gladly say it again;

The ONLY reason pot is still illegal is because the Government cannot find a way to tax it.

That is the ONLY reason. Even the far right can't see past dollar signs. I would go as far as to call it the rape of personal liberty.

Totally agree GoddyofOz ... Angry

Bugger it... Had a ripper reply but lost it due to stuff on-line.
That was days ago it seems.

It IS more important an issue than those who'd poo-poo the suggestion realise. It really comes down to how much we allow our governments to dictate how we live, in areas of life which should have no such intrusion. I mean, where it is clear the 'official' criminalisation of a 'thing' ..makes it more profitable for crims, and more divisive inside our society, and leads to obscene profit,!! the law must be changed.

Never have understood why it is that the powers that be allow this to go on and on and on. Someone is obviously profiting nicely. Angry

Well thats some of it anyway.

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: Legalisation of pot? Reply #468 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 9:40am Legalize of course. What right should the government have to say what you can do to your own body? Victimless crime is not a crime.
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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #469 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 11:25am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Legalize of course.
What right should the government have to say what you can do to your own body?
Victimless crime is not a crime.

You can do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. Just don't drain our medical system as a result of it. Drug related medical costs account for something like $55 billion per year. That's $2500 for each man, woman and child in Australia.

It's a bit like patients with cardio vascular disease who go on smoking despite what the doctor says. The rest of us have to pay for the medical costs, especially if they are treated in public hospitals.

There should be a limit. Those people who have expensive bypass operations and then continue to live uncontrolled life, drinking, chain smoking and doing drugs should be denied any further public care. The same applies to those people who endanger their lives with drugs. Deny them further healthcare. If they die, it will be no loss, and less of a drain on the rest of us.

So legalise it all for all I care. Just lessen the burden on the rest of us and give evolution a helping hand.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #470 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

muso wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 11:25am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 9:40am:

Legalize of course.
What right should the government have to say what you can do to your own body?
Victimless crime is not a crime.

You can do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. Just don't drain our medical system as a result of it. Drug related medical costs account for something like $55 billion per year. That's $2500 for each man, woman and child in Australia.

It's a bit like patients with cardio vascular disease who go on smoking despite what the doctor says. The rest of us have to pay for the medical costs, especially if they are treated in public hospitals.

There should be a limit. Those people who have expensive bypass operations and then continue to live uncontrolled life, drinking, chain smoking and doing drugs should be denied any further public care. The same applies to those people who endanger their lives with drugs. Deny them further healthcare. If they die, it will be no loss, and less of a drain on the rest of us.

So legalise it all for all I care. Just lessen the burden on the rest of us and give evolution a helping hand.

I agree, and that point really just strengthens the legalize marijuana argument because its 100% less dangerous than alcohol, cigs and most of all pharmaceuticals. Of course there will be some cost to the medical system but if you legalized pot people would reduce their consumption of alcohol and prescription drugs which would pay for itself 10 fold.

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #471 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:08pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

I agree, and that point really just strengthens the legalize marijuana argument because its 100% less dangerous than alcohol, cigs and most of all pharmaceuticals. Of course there will be some cost to the medical system but if you legalized pot people would reduce their consumption of alcohol and prescription drugs which would pay for itself 10 fold.

Only according to cannabis smokers and advocacy groups. Maybe that attitude is an effect of the drug, or maybe it's just a way of justifying the habit. Medical authorities say otherwise.

http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/internet/drugs/publishing.nsf/content/marijuana

Quote:

The consequences of using marijuana may include:
....

This is another useful fact sheet from the US, where use of marijuana by teenagers is a big problem.
http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//PHD641/PHD641.pdf

Again, don't shoot the messenger.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #472 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:14pm

muso wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

I agree, and that point really just strengthens the legalize marijuana argument because its 100% less dangerous than alcohol, cigs and most of all pharmaceuticals. Of course there will be some cost to the medical system but if you legalized pot people would reduce their consumption of alcohol and prescription drugs which would pay for itself 10 fold.

Only according to cannabis smokers and advocacy groups. Maybe that attitude is an effect of the drug, or maybe it's just a way of justifying the habit. Medical authorities say otherwise.

http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/internet/drugs/publishing.nsf/content/marijuana

Quote:

The consequences of using marijuana may include:
....

This is another useful fact sheet from the US, where use of marijuana by teenagers is a big problem.
http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//PHD641/PHD641.pdf

Again, don't shoot the messenger.

I didn’t say marijuana is perfect but it’s nowhere near as dangerous as current legal drugs. Prescription medication is one of the biggest killers in the world, even without addiction many can be extremely dangerous except you would never hear medical authorities talk about this. I don’t take the medical industry very seriously anymore, too much bias and too much money at stake for private corporations to ever get an honest perspective.
The consequences of marijuana on that link are pretty tame compared to many widely used prescription meds. I don’t see what the argument is if weed is a lot less harmful then already legal substances.

I think what I said before sums it up, the law shouldnt dictate what you do to yourself. Because when opinion becomes law it can get out of control, I mean to we make fast food illegal, or maybe driving? Heaps of stuff is dangerous but that is our choice not the governments as long as its only too ourselves.

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #473 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:48pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

muso wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

I agree, and that point really just strengthens the legalize marijuana argument because its 100% less dangerous than alcohol, cigs and most of all pharmaceuticals. Of course there will be some cost to the medical system but if you legalized pot people would reduce their consumption of alcohol and prescription drugs which would pay for itself 10 fold.

Only according to cannabis smokers and advocacy groups. Maybe that attitude is an effect of the drug, or maybe it's just a way of justifying the habit. Medical authorities say otherwise.

http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/internet/drugs/publishing.nsf/content/marijuana

Quote:

The consequences of using marijuana may include:
....

This is another useful fact sheet from the US, where use of marijuana by teenagers is a big problem.
http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//PHD641/PHD641.pdf

Again, don't shoot the messenger.

I didn’t say marijuana is perfect but it’s nowhere near as dangerous as current legal drugs. Prescription medication is one of the biggest killers in the world, even without addiction many can be extremely dangerous except you would never hear medical authorities talk about this. I don’t take the medical industry very seriously anymore, too much bias and too much money at stake for private corporations to ever get an honest perspective.
The consequences of marijuana on that link are pretty tame compared to many widely used prescription meds. I don’t see what the argument is if weed is a lot less harmful then already legal substances.

I think what I said before sums it up, the law shouldnt dictate what you do to yourself. Because when opinion becomes law it can get out of control, I mean to we make fast food illegal, or maybe driving? Heaps of stuff is dangerous but that is our choice not the governments as long as its only too ourselves.

I guess when it comes to ignoring prevailing medical opinion because it differs from your own, the warning bells start to ring.

Perhaps the pure ingredients, taken under medical supervision wouldn't cause too many problems. When it's not under medical supervsion, anybody can take any amount of a drug whose origins are unknown and may easily be laced with other substances.

If that doesn't seem like a problem to you, then maybe you are desensitised to the hazards.

If the TGA is not credible when assessing marijuana, then who is? A user? An advocacy group made up of users?

Quote:

Effects on the Brain
The active ingredient in marijuana, delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, acts on cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors, but other areas of the brain have few or none at all. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.

When high doses of marijuana are used, usually when eaten in food rather than smoked, users can experience the following symptoms:

Hallucinations
Delusions
Impaired memory
Disorientation

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #474 - Jan 29^th, 2012 at 5:10pm

muso wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

muso wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

I agree, and that point really just strengthens the legalize marijuana argument because its 100% less dangerous than alcohol, cigs and most of all pharmaceuticals. Of course there will be some cost to the medical system but if you legalized pot people would reduce their consumption of alcohol and prescription drugs which would pay for itself 10 fold.

Only according to cannabis smokers and advocacy groups. Maybe that attitude is an effect of the drug, or maybe it's just a way of justifying the habit. Medical authorities say otherwise.

http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/internet/drugs/publishing.nsf/content/marijuana

Quote:

The consequences of using marijuana may include:
....

This is another useful fact sheet from the US, where use of marijuana by teenagers is a big problem.
http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//PHD641/PHD641.pdf

Again, don't shoot the messenger.

I didn’t say marijuana is perfect but it’s nowhere near as dangerous as current legal drugs. Prescription medication is one of the biggest killers in the world, even without addiction many can be extremely dangerous except you would never hear medical authorities talk about this. I don’t take the medical industry very seriously anymore, too much bias and too much money at stake for private corporations to ever get an honest perspective.
The consequences of marijuana on that link are pretty tame compared to many widely used prescription meds. I don’t see what the argument is if weed is a lot less harmful then already legal substances.

I think what I said before sums it up, the law shouldnt dictate what you do to yourself. Because when opinion becomes law it can get out of control, I mean to we make fast food illegal, or maybe driving? Heaps of stuff is dangerous but that is our choice not the governments as long as its only too ourselves.

I guess when it comes to ignoring prevailing medical opinion because it differs from your own, the warning bells start to ring.

Perhaps the pure ingredients, taken under medical supervision wouldn't cause too many problems. When it's not under medical supervsion, anybody can take any amount of a drug whose origins are unknown and may easily be laced with other substances.

If that doesn't seem like a problem to you, then maybe you are desensitised to the hazards.

If the TGA is not credible when assessing marijuana, then who is? A user? An advocacy group made up of users?

Quote:

Effects on the Brain
The active ingredient in marijuana, delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, acts on cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors, but other areas of the brain have few or none at all. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.

When high doses of marijuana are used, usually when eaten in food rather than smoked, users can experience the following symptoms:

Hallucinations
Delusions
Impaired memory
Disorientation

Medical opinion you’re talking about comes mainly from the pharmaceutical corporations selling the drugs.
Once again, I am not saying weed is perfect but it is a lot better than most legalized drugs. So if medical opinion is saying that these dangerous things are fine, why not weed?
Many pharmaceuticals can cause major problems with patients even under medical care.
Personally I do not see the TGA’s credibility when they declare marijuana should be illegal and then declare a drug 100% more dangerous is safe and should be legal. Are these the same guys that think it’s a good idea to give crack to children. I mean come on use some logic here. If they are saying something worse than weed is ok then technically they are saying weed is ok.
Delusion – Taking someone’s word for gospel because they have a position of authority.

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Emma

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #475 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 12:52am

I think if we look back through this topic, we'll see numerous times where Muso comes out on the side of the status quo.
Muso is righteous 'cos he quotes all these 'medical' stats, whereas any opposition can only come from users or supporters, and hence aren't credible..
What could THEY possibly know that isn't tainted by their own bias??.
Look to yourself Muso.

As for INCREASING imposts on the tax dollar.... that flies in the face of common sense.!!

For a start, .... all of those thousands of hrs of police time will be able to catch real crooks,,, with an on-going benefit. Courts could actually be used for matters of real concern...all those criminals who smoke, could become honest citizens, .... etc etc... as for medical costs???? I can't imagine what you must think will happen if Pot is legalised. I mean, what?? all of a sudden non- smokers are going to go out get stoned and crash their cars??? Or.. non-smokers are going to start going to work stoned???
Plus.. done properly the govt, and therefore Us,, you and me, and everyone else, will derive massive benefits from all those billions flowing into govt coffers.

Its Laughable ... what you are saying ...it really is Muso.

Muso.... all your fears are non-sensical.. and no reason to continue to allow crime to run basically unhindered. Why is it good to fund crims from the black market??
Why is good to allow crims to control the drugs our kids favour. ??? And so control our kids.!!!
( And not just kids I might add.)

None of your - 'its bad for you fearmongering' is really worth a piece of pig s rear.!!!!

AND you are not a doctor. And doctors aren't the be all and end all.

People living cohesively is.
I COULD go on.... but surely by now you must recognise the folly of your continued opposition on the grounds '... its bad for you'.

I mean - you don't appear to be stupid... but blind on this ... Very.!!!

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #476 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:49am

Emma wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 12:52am:

I think if we look back through this topic, we'll see numerous times where Muso comes out on the side of the status quo.
Muso is righteous 'cos he quotes all these 'medical' stats, whereas any opposition can only come from users or supporters, and hence aren't credible..
What could THEY possibly know that isn't tainted by their own bias??.
Look to yourself Muso.

As for INCREASING imposts on the tax dollar.... that flies in the face of common sense.!!

For a start, .... all of those thousands of hrs of police time will be able to catch real crooks,,, with an on-going benefit. Courts could actually be used for matters of real concern...all those criminals who smoke, could become honest citizens, .... etc etc... as for medical costs???? I can't imagine what you must think will happen if Pot is legalised. I mean, what?? all of a sudden non- smokers are going to go out get stoned and crash their cars??? Or.. non-smokers are going to start going to work stoned???
Plus.. done properly the govt, and therefore Us,, you and me, and everyone else, will derive massive benefits from all those billions flowing into govt coffers.

Its Laughable ... what you are saying ...it really is Muso.

Muso.... all your fears are non-sensical.. and no reason to continue to allow crime to run basically unhindered. Why is it good to fund crims from the black market??
Why is good to allow crims to control the drugs our kids favour. ??? And so control our kids.!!!
( And not just kids I might add.)

None of your - 'its bad for you fearmongering' is really worth a piece of pig s rear.!!!!

AND you are not a doctor. And doctors aren't the be all and end all.

People living cohesively is.
I COULD go on.... but surely by now you must recognise the folly of your continued opposition on the grounds '... its bad for you'.

I mean - you don't appear to be stupid... but blind on this ... Very.!!!

Muso thinks its safe to take dangerous chemicals when the corporation selling it to you says its ok.
And bad to take harmless substances because the people who cant tax it told him its bad...

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #477 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 10:56am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Muso thinks its safe to take dangerous chemicals when the corporation selling it to you says its ok.
And bad to take harmless substances because the people who cant tax it told him its bad...

No chemical is safe. We don't get prescriptions from corporations, we get them from medically trained doctors. Of the prescriptions I've picked up in the last year, over 90% were available as generics, so it's not even the big pharmaceutical companies that benefit. In my experience, (good) doctors will prescribe only when necessary.

I'll rest my case on the (lack of) logic of the replies you guys have given so far. I'm obviously not going to convince you of anything, but that's not why I replied anyway. Cool

The topic was in need of balance. The views of medical professionals and specialists in pharmacology are certainly key to this issue. In denying that basic fact, you speak volumes about your impartiality..... and credibility.

On the issue of health, who are you going to consult with? Plumbers? Taxi Drivers? Drug addicts? or trained medical professionals?

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Emma

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #478 - Jan 30^th, 2012 at 5:52pm

Muso says ...The views of medical professionals and specialists in pharmacology are certainly key to this issue.
Not so Muso, because a person is a medical professional or a pharmacologist does not make their views 'supreme'. on this or any other issue. And you admit it is a medical issue. You suggest you'd seek advice from these 'pros' ......Wouldn't it be a lot more effective for treating medical issues if the issue is LEGAL.
Pot smokers are not drug addicts, no matter how many times you call them that. Well, no more than coffee drinkers any way.

And definitely NOT like cigarette smokers or alcoholics.

Also Muso, you understand I'm sure, that scientists etc are not 'as one' on this issue.
Get ten pros together, give them the same data, and you'll likely get 10 different views.

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muso

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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #479 - Jan 31^st, 2012 at 2:41pm

True, there is one Medical Association that's in favour of decriminalising marijuana, but they have not exactly been welcomed with open arms. In California (hmmm)

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/15/local/la-me-doctors-marijuana-20111016

Quote:

Reporting from Sacramento — The state's largest doctor group is calling for legalization of marijuana, even as it pronounces cannabis to be of questionable medical value.

Quote:

"I wonder what they're smoking," said John Lovell, spokesman for the California Police Chiefs Assn. "Given everything that we know about the physiological impacts of marijuana — how it affects young brains, the number of accidents associated with driving under the influence — it's just an unbelievably irresponsible position."

The CMA's view is also controversial in the medical community.

Dr. Robert DuPont, an M.D. and professor of psychiatry at Georgetown Medical School, said the association's call for legalization showed "a reckless disregard of the public health. I think it's going to lead to more use, and that, to me, is a public health concern. I'm not sure they've thought through what the implications of legalization would be."

In some US States, they do permit "Medicinal Marijuana". The problem is that a whole lot of people have suddenly developed medical conditions requiring marijuana in those states. Grin

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