Australian Politics Forum - *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***

muso

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #30 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 10:58am

My opinion - It's a very complex issue that deserves to be considered on a case by case basis and has been hijacked by such simplistic terms as: Right to Life and Prochoice.

It should be available as an option after all other avenues have been explored.

The example often given is that of underage children who have been raped and become pregnant.

On the other hand, it's obscene that abortion should effectively become a routine method of belated contraception.

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Equitist

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #31 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 11:04am

So many vexed questions...for all of us...

Quote:

Don`t forget the fathers` right to demand termination of unwanted pregnancies or have you a twist to the "equality" scam?

Yer, there is an obvious twist: -

What right should a 'father' have to force a woman/'mother' to continue with an unwanted pregnancy - and/or remain forever tied by way of birth certificate to both 'father' and/or child!?

Quote:

Do you support a wife's right to 'demand' a husband undergo a vasectomy?

Good question - of course there is a corollary: -

Do you support a husband's right to 'demand' a wife undergo a tubal ligation?

Also: -

What is in the best interests of an embryo/foetus - and should those interests override those of the 'mother' and/or 'father'?

Do you support a child's right to know they have been adopted (and to seek out their biological parents) from a young age?

Do you support surrogacy - and under what circumstances and restrictions?

Etc., etc., etc....

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #32 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 11:17am

Quote:

Do you support a husband's right to 'demand' a wife undergo a tubal ligation?

No, but then I don't support a woman's right to demand her partner have a vasectomy, or a man's right to demand a woman have an abortion either.

Also: -

Quote:

What is in the best interests of an embryo/foetus - and should those interests override those of the 'mother' and/or 'father'?

Once a pregnancy has reached a certain point, the right of a baby to life surpasses the right of the mother to terminate - unless it's a danger to the mother's own life to carry on (like in the case of pre-eclamspia, maternal cancer etc).

Quote:

Do you support a child's right to know they have been adopted (and to seek out their biological parents) from a young age

?

I'm adopted myself and was aware of it from a very early age. I think that was the right thing for my family, but I don't necessarily believe this is the case for everyone.

Quote:

Do you support surrogacy - and under what circumstances and restrictions?

I do support surrogacy under circumstances like infertility and for couples who live in same sex relationships.

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: * SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE * Reply #33 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 11:24am Thanks, for your feedback, Annie - but please know that I wasn't directing those questions to you alone... Oh, and welcome back!
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: * SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE * Reply #34 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 11:32am Thank you
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qikvtec

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #35 - Oct 21^st, 2010 at 8:31pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:

qikvtec wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 9:12pm:

Alexander Shulgin pretty much summarised my attitude toward abortion and most other personal physical and mental health issues.

There is plenty of satisfactory evidence for legal abortion to be legislated to about the 33rd trimester. <-- This is not the quote I had in mind.

1 trimester = 3 months.

You want to allow termination till the child is 8 years and 3 months old?

An unborn child would not be considered brain dead after about 10 weeks.

Did you think I was serious? Grin

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Politicians and Nappies need to be changed often and for the same reason.

One trouble with political jokes is that they often get elected.

Alan Joyce for PM

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #36 - Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 11:02am

Equitist wrote on Oct 21^st, 2010 at 11:04am:

So many vexed questions...for all of us...

Quote:

Don`t forget the fathers` right to demand termination of unwanted pregnancies or have you a twist to the "equality" scam?

Yer, there is an obvious twist: -

What right should a 'father' have to force a woman/'mother' to continue with an unwanted pregnancy - and/or remain forever tied by way of birth certificate to both 'father' and/or child!?

Here you are making no sense whatsoever. You didn`t answer the question at all. Huh

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jame-e

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #37 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 12:57am

There are two theories that i think relate to the beginnings of life.
-The beginnings of evolution (primordial ooze maby)
-Creationism

Trimester’s/weeks whatever have nothing to do with the the beginning of life.
Its either god did it (throw away your condoms everyone)
Or life began long ago.

I believe if the state decides that you can not terminate, then the state decides to take guardianship of the child, simple as that. If the state/you want the moral high ground, take it.

If the only reasons you can come up with to justify abortion is rape and medical reasons (does medical extend to psychological?) then your opinions are severely lacking.
Not everyone is as awesome as you

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #38 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 9:32am

jame-e wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 12:57am:

There are two theories that i think relate to the beginnings of life.
-The beginnings of evolution (primordial ooze maby)
-Creationism

Trimester’s/weeks whatever have nothing to do with the the beginning of life.
Its either god did it (throw away your condoms everyone)
Or life began long ago.

I believe if the state decides that you can not terminate, then the state decides to take guardianship of the child, simple as that. If the state/you want the moral high ground, take it.

If the only reasons you can come up with to justify abortion is rape and medical reasons (does medical extend to psychological?) then your opinions are severely lacking.
Not everyone is as awesome as you

Most everyone is more awesomer than me, but I have been patiently attempting to get the point across that if a mother has the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, the father should also have the same right. If the father doesn`t want the child, he shouldn`t be forced to pay for it`s upbringing etc., if abortion is an option.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: * SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE * Reply #39 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 11:28am Quote: Trimester’s/weeks whatever have nothing to do with the the beginning of life. Maybe not, but there comes a point where a fetus would experience pain and suffering during the termination process. Once that stage has been reached, abortion shouldn't be permitted.
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jame-e

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #40 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 3:17pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 11:28am:

Quote:

Trimester’s/weeks whatever have nothing to do with the the beginning of life.

Maybe not, but there comes a point where a fetus would experience pain and suffering during the termination process. Once that stage has been reached, abortion shouldn't be permitted.

I was born! then circumcised. I also had a severe un-diagnosed middle ear infection for the fist ~year of my life, i screamed constantly.
I don't remember any pain and suffering.

When do you think it begins?

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #41 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 3:29pm

When do I think a fetus can feel pain? It's been known since the 1980's that a fetus can feel pain at all points of its body from at least the beginning of the second trimester.

Circumcision and ear infections (while I agree would both cause significant pain) aren't in the same league as what a fetus goes through in an abortion.

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I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

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jame-e

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #42 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 4:11pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 3:29pm:

When do I think a fetus can feel pain? It's been known since the 1980's that a fetus can feel pain at all points of its body from at least the beginning of the second trimester.

Circumcision and ear infections (while I agree would both cause significant pain) aren't in the same league as what a fetus goes through in an abortion.

What about birth, is birth pain, suffering and trauma free?
I believe that pain, suffering, dispair etc. can not be scaled.
The differences between circumcision and abortion in terms of pain i don't feel are relavant. The point i was trying to make is that i don't remember
any pain and suffering surrounding my birth.
Infact i don't remember anything.
Is a fetus less or more aware than a goldfish?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #43 - Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 7:10pm

muso wrote on Oct 21^st, 2010 at 10:58am:

My opinion - It's a very complex issue that deserves to be considered on a case by case basis and has been hijacked by such simplistic terms as: Right to Life and Prochoice.

It should be available as an option after all other avenues have been explored.

The example often given is that of underage children who have been raped and become pregnant.

On the other hand, it's obscene that abortion should effectively become a routine method of belated contraception.

Ditto! Well said!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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jame-e

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Re: *** SIGN the PETITION for reproductive CHOICE ***
Reply #44 - Nov 7^th, 2010 at 12:33am

aussiefree2ride wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 9:32am:

jame-e wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 12:57am:

There are two theories that i think relate to the beginnings of life.
-The beginnings of evolution (primordial ooze maby)
-Creationism

Trimester’s/weeks whatever have nothing to do with the the beginning of life.
Its either god did it (throw away your condoms everyone)
Or life began long ago.

I believe if the state decides that you can not terminate, then the state decides to take guardianship of the child, simple as that. If the state/you want the moral high ground, take it.

If the only reasons you can come up with to justify abortion is rape and medical reasons (does medical extend to psychological?) then your opinions are severely lacking.
Not everyone is as awesome as you

Most everyone is more awesomer than me, but I have been patiently attempting to get the point across that if a mother has the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, the father should also have the same right. If the father doesn`t want the child, he shouldn`t be forced to pay for it`s upbringing etc., if abortion is an option.

Sounds like someone had a spray and dinna wanna pay...

But ultimatly i agree. Females and males are not equals. The idea of equality has/does/will result in retartation of both.
Equality is only found if the scales except and interpret completly different weights. Perhaps heavy meatals and gases.

I liken the argument to the king demanding equal responsibility of his subjects in regards to the kingdoms failed forign policy.

There can be no bun without an oven, no matter how many cocks you find in the forest.

Sorry, i got side tracked. Annie: fetus goldfish relationship?

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