Australian Politics Forum - wife beating in Islam

polite_gandalf

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #300 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 10:45am

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 10:26am:

The whole mistranslation thing is starting to sound like a broken record.

so perhaps you can explain to me how ""when you asked me some money" - makes sense?

The tone of the passage suggests that the prophet wasn't laughing about the beating, but the fact that his daughter had brazenly asked someone for money - as it reminded him of his wives also asking for money.

The fact that there was such an obvious error in translation in the earlier part, calls into question the translation of the rest of it. Especially since the meaning as it is rendered in this English version, is at best very strange.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #301 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 10:54am It seems pretty obvious to me what the typo should have been. Do you have an alternative translation?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #302 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 1:00pm

I'm not going to labour on this point for long - only to say the that the passage seems a bit out of whack:

- hey Prophet, you're going to find it hillarious when I tell you how I smacked your daughter up after she asked me for some money

- [prophet] - bruahahaha!! yeah totally - in fact here are my wives right now begging me for money (hint hint)

[2 companions present take the hint and dully smack the wives (who are also their daughters)]

That reads like a transcript from a bad comedy.

More likely:

- hey prophet, this is hilarious - your daughter just came up to me and asked for some money

-[prophet] - haha yeah, and here are my wives doing the same to me - its like I'm surrounded by women who are always sponging me

- companions who are the fathers of the two wives in question then take issue with this revelation, and give their daughters a light admonishment.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #303 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 1:34pm Quote: That reads like a transcript from a bad comedy. Yes it does.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #304 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 2:47pm ah so it must be authentic then.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #305 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:13pm It certainly doesn't prove it is not authentic. Your whole religion is a bad joke.
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freediver

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #306 - Dec 7^th, 2013 at 7:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 2:35pm:

Its irrelevant. You made the claim that he said nothing about it, I pointed out that he clearly disapproved of it. Thus you are clearly fabricating the hadith.

He also condoned and permitted it, thus condemning a large chunk of the world's female population to inescapable misery, even to this day.

Do you really think I intended to fabricate a hadith in which nothing was said?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #307 - Dec 7^th, 2013 at 7:48pm

Muhammad most certainly didn't condone wife beating. He reluctantly rescinded a ban he had imposed on it in order to avoid a full-scale rebellion at a time Medina was under direct assault by the pagans.

And again, he didn't say "nothing" - he said the only people who would resort to beating their wives would be "among the worst of us". He also imposed strict regulations on it - making it clear the face was off limits, it mustn't leave a mark and made it very clear that it should never actually cause any physical pain.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #308 - Dec 7^th, 2013 at 8:53pm

Quote:

Muhammad most certainly didn't condone wife beating. He reluctantly rescinded a ban he had imposed on it in order to avoid a full-scale rebellion at a time Medina was under direct assault by the pagans.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=condone

1.
accept (behaviour that is considered morally wrong or offensive).

So Muhammed forever cast aside the rights of Muslim women for political gain?

Quote:

And again, he didn't say "nothing"

On one occasion, he laughed as one of his wives was being beaten.

Quote:

He also imposed strict regulations on it - making it clear the face was off limits

Any wife beater with half a brain knows not to leave a black eye. This is not some kind of moral standard. It merely makes it easier to get away with wife beating.

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it mustn't leave a mark and made it very clear that it should never actually cause any physical pain.

What did Muhammed actually say?

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freediver

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #309 - May 21^st, 2017 at 6:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 2:00pm:

Quote:

Auggie wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 1:18pm:

Quote:

Here's a counter-proposition: Australians are bogans. Do you agree?

Muslims are bogans too... so what is your point?

No, they aren't. They don't drink.

Gandalf likes to point out that Islamic wife beating is better than western wife beating because they are sober and respectful when they do it.

Absolute crap FD.

Quote me or retract this.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:36pm:

Here you go Gandalf:

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Does that sound like the leader of mankind to you? Or some bogan wife beater control freak?

The word is 'lahada' which means "push" not "strike". Puts a slightly different spin on it wouldn't you say?

The thing is FD, if it was some bogan wife beater control freak being described, I would expect to see narrations like:

he stormed into the room, breath reeking with alcohol, grabbed me by the hair and smacked me around the face, then concluded with a haymaker to the gut. I then got on my knees and thanked God that he treated me so well that night.

And then I would expect to see the same sort of account repeated over and over and over again - so as to suggest a pattern of behaviour. A single incident in which his wife was "pushed" by a husband who was in a state of panic over her wellbeing and safety, does not even remotely reflect such a pattern of behaviour.

Funny how this same apparently abused woman stated on another occasion:

"Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman."

Common sense indicates that there is a clear distinction being made between the aggressive "hit" and non-aggressive "push".

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39521 Gender:	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #310 - May 21^st, 2017 at 7:03pm wife beating in Islam - is that a moderate islamic country ?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #311 - May 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm The take home message here is spin. No drunk Aussie bogan would ever dream of putting a positive spin on trying to beat some sense into his silly wife. But Muhammad did. That's what makes him special.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #312 - May 21^st, 2017 at 7:29pm

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 2:00pm:

Quote:

Auggie wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 1:18pm:

Quote:

Here's a counter-proposition: Australians are bogans. Do you agree?

Muslims are bogans too... so what is your point?

No, they aren't. They don't drink.

Gandalf likes to point out that Islamic wife beating is better than western wife beating because they are sober and respectful when they do it.

Absolute crap FD.

Quote me or retract this.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:36pm:

Here you go Gandalf:

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Does that sound like the leader of mankind to you? Or some bogan wife beater control freak?

The word is 'lahada' which means "push" not "strike". Puts a slightly different spin on it wouldn't you say?

The thing is FD, if it was some bogan wife beater control freak being described, I would expect to see narrations like:

he stormed into the room, breath reeking with alcohol, grabbed me by the hair and smacked me around the face, then concluded with a haymaker to the gut. I then got on my knees and thanked God that he treated me so well that night.

And then I would expect to see the same sort of account repeated over and over and over again - so as to suggest a pattern of behaviour. A single incident in which his wife was "pushed" by a husband who was in a state of panic over her wellbeing and safety, does not even remotely reflect such a pattern of behaviour.

Funny how this same apparently abused woman stated on another occasion:

"Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman."

Common sense indicates that there is a clear distinction being made between the aggressive "hit" and non-aggressive "push".

Yes you invented that slur. Thanks again for confirming.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Secret Wars

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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #313 - May 21^st, 2017 at 7:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 7:29pm:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:48pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 6:38pm:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 2:00pm:

Quote:

Auggie wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 1:18pm:

Quote:

Here's a counter-proposition: Australians are bogans. Do you agree?

Muslims are bogans too... so what is your point?

No, they aren't. They don't drink.

Gandalf likes to point out that Islamic wife beating is better than western wife beating because they are sober and respectful when they do it.

Absolute crap FD.

Quote me or retract this.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 12:36pm:

Here you go Gandalf:

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Does that sound like the leader of mankind to you? Or some bogan wife beater control freak?

The word is 'lahada' which means "push" not "strike". Puts a slightly different spin on it wouldn't you say?

The thing is FD, if it was some bogan wife beater control freak being described, I would expect to see narrations like:

he stormed into the room, breath reeking with alcohol, grabbed me by the hair and smacked me around the face, then concluded with a haymaker to the gut. I then got on my knees and thanked God that he treated me so well that night.

And then I would expect to see the same sort of account repeated over and over and over again - so as to suggest a pattern of behaviour. A single incident in which his wife was "pushed" by a husband who was in a state of panic over her wellbeing and safety, does not even remotely reflect such a pattern of behaviour.

Funny how this same apparently abused woman stated on another occasion:

"Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman."

Common sense indicates that there is a clear distinction being made between the aggressive "hit" and non-aggressive "push".

Yes you invented that slur. Thanks again for confirming.

It was an accurate summation of your position based on that quote.

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Secret Wars Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3928 Gender:	Re: wife beating in Islam Reply #314 - May 21^st, 2017 at 7:32pm freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm: The take home message here is spin. No drunk Aussie bogan would ever dream of putting a positive spin on trying to beat some sense into his silly wife. But Muhammad did. That's what makes him special. Not just Mo, Gandalf as well.
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Question: SHould wife-smacking be allowed
Yes - always 0 (0.0%) Yes - if she burns the toast 0 (0.0%) Only if she is really naughty 1 (33.3%) Only if she likes it 1 (33.3%) No - never ever under any circumstances 1 (33.3%) Total votes: 3 « Created by: True Colours on: Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:45pm »