stryder wrote on Oct 19^th, 2010 at 9:52pm:


Unless your some kind of Islamic expert, hearsay like that doesn't count for much. Maybe you could support that comment with something. Most probably, you'll find that disagreeable passages are interpreted out of existence by clerics referring to context and other passages or whatever. There are a number of Biblical passages, which, if you're being genuine would have you remarking, "SO HOW DOES ANYONE BELIEVE A CHRISTIAN WITH THAT IN MIND".

While you're looking up something and hopefully have talked it over with some Islamic expert, you might like to consult some Christian expert on:

"And Jehovah said, “Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, “I will entice him.” And Jehovah said to him, “Wherewith?” And he said, “I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” And he said, “Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.” Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee (22:20-23)."

Seems that old Jollysticks is winking at the odd fib or two to get his way. Of course, Biblical experts will probably jump up and down saying that you missed this and that and didn't understand and so on.........

I wouldn't be as presumptuous as you in either case.

As it is , religion isn't my thing, but what I do care about is honest debate or discussion.

I was just responding to a comment made by the poster called Stryder. I take it that I'm allowed to respond to what's written here? However, if you need to blame someone for getting away from the topic, I suggest that you admonish the poster I responded to.

You have obviously missed my point in quoting that passage. I did say that I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to base any judgement on it  because I understand that interpretation  of one passage without knowledge of the whole religion or its texts could be dangerous. Accordingly, I would not draw any conclusion as to how I should treat a member of any religion based on some hearsay about the religion or some passage(s) in its texts -unlike the poster I brought to task on the issue. I hope you see nothing wrong in that.

Thank you for putting that Biblical passage into context. It just demonstrates the above point I wanted to make. A person shouldn't pass judgement unless he/she is very well acquainted with the subject matter.

Even so, and I grant that  it is off topic, you  personally haven't exonerated Jollysticks.

You wrote:

Quote:


He chose to use a lying spirit even if he didn't have to and even though later he got one of his prophets to fess.

I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate anyone saying that you shouldn't be trusted because of the above passage, assuming that you are a Christian. You would also be more unappreciative if they made some comment without any reference to support them. And even more so, if they had no context with which to understand what they were reading.

I would go further to say that no reasonable person would judge an individual soley on some religious text or group that they happen to be associated with. I would think how they personally conduct themselves in real life would be the real testimony.

PROUD AUSTRALIAN WOMAN

you are not australian shut up

this is a rightfully nordic country get lost go back to italia

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19^th, 2010 at 11:28pm:


Thank you for making me fully acquainted with your stance. Now I'll give you mine.

I entered into the topic and stated that the only people who should reasonably be allowed to hold their heads high are those who do not engage in domestic violence. I would therefore say that any Muslims, Christians, Unionists, footballers  or netballers etc who do not resort to physical or verbal abuse of their partners are to be lauded. However, I would not be so unreasonable as  to assert that physical or verbal abuse has the assent of an entire religion.

I did say that I did a search on whether or not Islam condoned domestic violence. On the first page of hits there were Muslims saying that they didn't condone it with apparent reliance on their teachings.

I went on to say that probably most people if asked would denounce DV. However, the reality is that DV is rife in Australia across the board. Otherwise, I wouldn't have seen the point in the government launching an anti-domestic violence campaign if it wasn't a significant issue.

I find the fingerpointing a futile exercise. There's no point in saying one group condones it and another doesn't because the reality of it is that concrete individuals are perpetrating it in virtually all groups you care to name let alone religion.

In as far as anyone condoning physical or verbal abuse then I'm against such declarations.

I did note that Abu made a distinction. He said that  Islam condones physical discipline of wives but he himself did not. I have no reason at this point to doubt what he says about himself. I take it, therefore, if you similarly don't have any reasonable doubt about his honesty then your attack, in as far as it is on him, is without foundation.

However, in as far as his understanding of Islam is concerned you have grounds.

Now whether you have grounds in saying that DV is institutionalised within Islam. I think you might be on less solid ground.From my internet search it would appear, on a cursory glance that this view that DV is acceptable is not universally held amongst Muslims.

Therefore, at this point, I would not be resting any case against Islam as a whole. In fact, like in any group, you would expect to find a diversity of interpretations, selected references to justify any particular stances, and practices.

I think it's pointless to rail against a religion and that there is merit in looking at what any particular person does, says or condones.

In as far as anyone condoning physical or verbal abuse then I'm against such declarations.

- Axle

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287049789

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287239342/22#22

Happy reading!

And Abu himself stated this .. in such very clear terms too!

Hitting need not be abusive. Parents often hit their children to discipline them, and it's usually not abusive, even when it causes bruising sometimes.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1285753174/135#137

aikmann4 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2010 at 12:20am:

OH lol ,still flirting with lisa ,Imp,lol.

How in God's name has this topic suddenly become all about me???

Behave you lot .. esp you Imp!