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Poll Poll
Question: SHould wife-smacking be allowed

Yes - always    
  0 (0.0%)
Yes - if she burns the toast    
  0 (0.0%)
Only if she is really naughty    
  1 (33.3%)
Only if she likes it    
  1 (33.3%)
No - never ever under any circumstances    
  1 (33.3%)




Total votes: 3
« Created by: True Colours on: Jul 30th, 2013 at 8:45pm »

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wife beating in Islam (Read 55410 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #15 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:32pm
 
Well said Axle.

You're 100% correct, it exists amongst all societies, and it's reprehensible, merely having a public policy condemning it does not change the obvious reality.
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abu_rashid  
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #16 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:39pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:32pm:
Well said Axle.

You're 100% correct, it exists amongst all societies, and it's reprehensible, merely having a public policy condemning it does not change the obvious reality.


Abu....the distinction is that while here in Australia the Law outlaws it, within Islam the Law confirms that a Husband may beat his Wife.

[mod: enough of the profanity]

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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs..yuk.

A racist bigot said "implying brown is not as bad as black."  Link
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #17 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:43pm
 
Quote:
That is domestic violence, and if you advocate it you are no better than the perpetrator.


So long as you're willing to accept smacking children is child abuse, then I'll give you this one.

Quote:
I have always stood up for you here Abu, as I think you get a hard time just because you're a Muslim...


Much appreciated skip, doesn't mean I'm going to be herded into holding the same views as you though. I think if you honestly took the time to think about what I've said, you'd not so strongly disagree. Islam does not permit domestic abuse, it permits only disciplining a wife, as it permits disciplining a child. Both are under the care and authority of the head of the family according to Islam (lack of this solid family structure in the West has actually led to far more grief for families than a little discipline has).

Obviously you'd never come to agree that the man is the head of the family, since you don't believe in that kind of family oriented society, but at least be rational about examining Islam's stance on discipline. Don't jump to conclusions and lump discipline with abuse, since they are not the same.

Quote:
if you condone domestic violence, which you obviously do


No I do not.
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abu_rashid  
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abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #18 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:45pm
 
Aussie, Islam gives the husband the right to discipline his wife and children, not to abuse them.

Your inability to distinguish between the two is only a sign of your inability to think.
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abu_rashid  
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #19 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 8:18pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 7:45pm:
Aussie, Islam gives the husband the right to discipline his wife and children, not to abuse them.

Your inability to distinguish between the two is only a sign of your inability to think.


I am pretty good at thinking, I reckon.  It seems you have a problem trying to distinguish between who has the right to discipline, and the method used.  Two issues there.

Why is it (a) that the Arab Male is given the right to discipline his Wife, as opposed to the Wife disciplining him with violence providing no visible signs are left, and  (b) why is it that you Muslims want to retain/defend the notion that it is okay to beat up children?
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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs..yuk.

A racist bigot said "implying brown is not as bad as black."  Link
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #20 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 8:27pm
 
Quote:
Why is it (a) that the Arab Male is given the right to discipline his Wife


I don't remember saying anything about Arab males. In case you didn't realise the vast majority of Muslims are _not_ Arabs, and there's plenty of Arabs who are for instance Christians.

Quote:
why is it that you Muslims want to retain/defend the notion that it is okay to beat up children?


The only one here claiming it's ok to beat up children is you ya goose.

Nowhere have I stated anything of the kind. I've said a smack is allowed by Islam to discipline, not beating up. If you don't know the difference, then I'm really wasting my time even recognising you as a sentient being.
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abu_rashid  
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Lisa Jones
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #21 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:03pm
 
The only people who can hold their heads high in this sort of "debate" are those who do not engage in such behaviour.

- Axle

NO!

You forgot these groups of people:

Those who do not engage in such behaviour,
Those who condemn such behaviour
Those who don't excuse or condone such behaviour!

Perhaps you may NOW be able to appreciate where MY stance on violence and abuse is coming from !!!
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Quote by a member re THE EX CABBIE DRIVER :

You do realise that your avatar depicts you as a skinny legged, no balls, puffed up chest and the dumbest looking face nobody would own, don't ya?  Smiley
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #22 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:09pm
 
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 12:29pm:
Quote:
Islam supports physical discipline in extreme cases where a wife takes to rebelliousness and does not listen to her husband.



That is domestic violence, and if you advocate it you are no better than the perpetrator.
I have always stood up for you here Abu, as I think you get a hard time just because you're a Muslim, but making statements like that makes me think I was wrong, you are no better, if you condone domestic violence, which you obviously do, you are a  
[mod: expletives removed, keep it clean]







And there you have it .. take a good hard look at it everyone ..

the practice of physically abusing another family member is masked under the euphemism and cover of  PHYSICAL DISCIPLINE

.. and under what EXTREME circumstances???

in extreme cases where a wife takes to rebelliousness and does not listen to her husband.


I rest my case.

And I hold my head up high as a proud Australian woman because I have the courage of my conviction to stand up against this type of religious institutionalisation of domestic violence.

In fact I abhor it and totally condemn it.

Kind regards

Lisa
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« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:15pm by Lisa Jones »  

Quote by a member re THE EX CABBIE DRIVER :

You do realise that your avatar depicts you as a skinny legged, no balls, puffed up chest and the dumbest looking face nobody would own, don't ya?  Smiley
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #23 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:19pm
 
Lisa,

Quote:
The only people who can hold their heads high in this sort of "debate" are those who do not engage in such behaviour.

- Axle

NO!

You forgot these groups of people:

Those who do not engage in such behaviour


Well someone forgot something...  Grin

Quote:
the practice of physically abusing another family member is masked under the euphemism and cover of  PHYSICAL DISCIPLINE


When you can learn to understand the difference between abuse and discipline, perhaps then your viewpoint will have some meaning here.

Anyway, regardless, this whole topic is complete moot. Islam does not prescribe even disciplining a wife (it merely permits it as a last resort in desperate situations), and since it's against Australian law to do so, then any Muslim in Australia doing it, would be doing it outside the bounds of Islam, since Islam does not permit someone to break the law of a country they live in, if it is not for something Islam prescribes.
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abu_rashid  
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Lisa Jones
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #24 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:27pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:09pm:
skippy. wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 12:29pm:
Quote:
Islam supports physical discipline in extreme cases where a wife takes to rebelliousness and does not listen to her husband.



That is domestic violence, and if you advocate it you are no better than the perpetrator.
I have always stood up for you here Abu, as I think you get a hard time just because you're a Muslim, but making statements like that makes me think I was wrong, you are no better, if you condone domestic violence, which you obviously do, you are a  
[mod: expletives removed, keep it clean]







And there you have it .. take a good hard look at it everyone ..

the practice of physically abusing another family member is masked under the euphemism and cover of  PHYSICAL DISCIPLINE

.. and under what EXTREME circumstances???

in extreme cases where a wife takes to rebelliousness and does not listen to her husband.


I rest my case.

And I hold my head up high as a proud Australian woman because I have the courage of my conviction to stand up against this type of religious institutionalisation of domestic violence.

In fact I abhor it and totally condemn it.

Kind regards

Lisa



Oh and the encouraging thing in all this???

Irrespective of what Islam states or what Abu has stated above ... THE LAW OF AUSTRALIA .. THE COUNTRY OF MY BIRTH and CITIZENSHIP PROTECTS ME AS AN AUSTRALIAN WOMAN AGAINST THIS RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONALIZATION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE .. and as such I am able to press charges against my "husband" and he may even be sent to prison IF he lays a finger on me.

Thank you!
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Quote by a member re THE EX CABBIE DRIVER :

You do realise that your avatar depicts you as a skinny legged, no balls, puffed up chest and the dumbest looking face nobody would own, don't ya?  Smiley
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #25 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:36pm
 
Quote:
and as such I am able to press charges against my "husband" and he may even be sent to prison IF he lays a finger on me.


How about you actually find someone willing to marry you first, and then we'll take that one on board?
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abu_rashid  
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Lisa Jones
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #26 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:47pm
 
How about you actually find someone willing to marry you first, and then we'll take that one on board?

- Abu



YOUR ignorance is clearly MY bliss Abu Smiley

Oh and I noticed (in passing) you weren't able to rebut anything else I stated .. then again if you had .. it would have made you look an even bigger fool I suppose.

One last thing Abu .. given YOU mentioned marriage in relation to me .. it must really be difficult for you as a Muslim male in Oz to marry anyone .. given the law of Australia clearly protects women against what Islam proudly preaches wrt to physical abuse oops physical discipline hey.

Which brings me to my question .. is that why you're not married yet Abu .. ie is it because of this inherent conflict btwn Oz law and Islam law/teaching wrt physical abuse oops physical discipline of your future wife?
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Quote by a member re THE EX CABBIE DRIVER :

You do realise that your avatar depicts you as a skinny legged, no balls, puffed up chest and the dumbest looking face nobody would own, don't ya?  Smiley
 
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stryder
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #27 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:52pm
 
wooooow, what a religion, if im correct, the koran allows muslims to lie to non muslims if it further advances there religion.

SO HOW DOES ANYONE BELIEVE A MUSLIM WITH THAT IN MIND

I guess Abu rashid has taken that to HEART,  Grin Grin Grin
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Lisa Jones
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #28 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:57pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:47pm:
How about you actually find someone willing to marry you first, and then we'll take that one on board?

- Abu



YOUR ignorance is clearly MY bliss Abu Smiley

Oh and I noticed (in passing) you weren't able to rebut anything else I stated .. then again if you had .. it would have made you look an even bigger fool I suppose.

One last thing Abu .. given YOU mentioned marriage in relation to me .. it must really be difficult for you as a Muslim male in Oz to marry anyone .. given the law of Australia clearly protects women against what Islam proudly preaches wrt to physical abuse oops physical discipline hey.

Which brings me to my question .. is that why you're not married yet Abu .. ie is it because of this inherent conflict btwn Oz law and Islam law/teaching wrt physical abuse oops physical discipline of your future wife?



....Well Abu???

Seems you're suddenly quiet.

And that's probably the best thing you could do right now my dear friend.

Coz you've done enough damage to yourself, your reputation and that of the religion you follow for one night.

Good night and sweet dreams.

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Quote by a member re THE EX CABBIE DRIVER :

You do realise that your avatar depicts you as a skinny legged, no balls, puffed up chest and the dumbest looking face nobody would own, don't ya?  Smiley
 
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Axle
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Re: wife beating in Islam
Reply #29 - Oct 19th, 2010 at 10:04pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19th, 2010 at 9:03pm:
The only people who can hold their heads high in this sort of "debate" are those who do not engage in such behaviour.

- Axle

NO!

You forgot these groups of people:

Those who do not engage in such behaviour,
Those who condemn such behaviour
Those who don't excuse or condone such behaviour!

Perhaps you may NOW be able to appreciate where MY stance on violence and abuse is coming from !!!


I haven't been here long enough to appreciate your stance. I believe I've mentioned one of those groups you've listed. The last two groups you've mentioned are fine as long as they're members of group one: those who do not engage in such behaviour, which happens to be the one I mentioned.

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